Question for Parents and Future Parents
Question for Parents and Future Parents
(OP)
I gave up my Engineering dream in college (class of 2001) because I didn't want to kill myself for a few good years of work before I quit for kids. Now I want to go back, but I wouldn't even be able to finish my degree for at least 5 years (probably longer). Then I might not even be able to work full time for a few more (depending on how many kids we have). Will I be able to find a job? Is is worth it?





RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Personally, I'd wait until you're closer to being ready for the commitment.
Will you be able to find a job? It all depends on your specific major/specialty, your grades, your interviewing ability, your network, your experience, and the economy.
The answer is, probably.
--------------------
How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
--------------------
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Is it worth it? No. If you didn't want to "kill" yourself before, chances are, you will be less inclinded to "kill" youself later. There are lots of other perfectly good careers, that is both self-fulfilling and lucrative, chose one of those.
Or, see this thread:
If you weren't an engineer, what would you be?
thread731-154463
Oh, I just saw your latest post. Just a comment on this:
[quote ktlasers]I'd commit now except that I want children. I feel like it's one or the other. That's ridiculous, but Engineering is a hard field to break into, I think.[quote]
Is this a question of is engineering worth it, or is it more a more general "Is a career worth it?" Any career will entail some "sacrafice", any decision will have a consequence. It really depends on what you want, how badly you want it, and what you are willing to give up to get it.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Anyhow, it is balance, like Abutler said. This means you don't get everything. You win here, but you lose there. You need to decide where you want to win, and where you want to lose. I am lucky. Many people don't even get this choice.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
My wife actually just started her own publishing company, which by the way, is WAY more lucrative and satasfying than engineering.
The drawback is that the kids have to go to baby-sitters and daycare. That's not really a bad thing. Our oldest (going on 3) has learned a tremendous amount from daycare. I think it keeps her motivated to learn and helps her out with social skills. Some people have an aversion to sending kids to daycare, though. Some have even gone out their way to share their opinions on this with me (knowing that our girl went to daycare) and I think that was just classless.
Oh, well. To each his/her own.
Perhaps in a few short years, my wife's company will be running more smoothly so that she can work part time. I hope also for the possibility of breaking away and doing some consulting and other businesses of my own. In that case, we will be able to spend more time with the rugrats.
Ed
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
I agree with the other post about balance and what you want as a career. My wife is going through the same thing, but in a bank related field. We have one daughter and she is in a great day care, also we both work. My wife is taking online classes now but close to a point where she has to take “real” classes. We agreed that my wife stay working so that she can get the work experience. Right now she is at the highest point in her career where she does not need a degree, but once she gets it doors will open. We have a hectic schedule, but we think it will pay off at the end.
I guess my advice would be to see if the company will pay for some online classes that you can do after work or the weekends. If the company does not pay for it (I am assuming that you are a woman) I think there are scholarships for women who want to go into the engineering field. If it has to come out of pocket (if you are in the USA) at least some of it may be tax deductible. It is great that you are working in the engineering field; some of it will be viable to a new Engineering job once you have your degree.
Good luck!
Tobalcane
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
I'm not sure, some where in Eng-Tips, I could have sworn I saw some dialog on engineering classes held during the weekend and night (for the working people). You should check out your local colleges and see if they have such a thing. For my wife, there are weekend and night class that she will be attending next year.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
by Black Sabbath
Well people look and people stare
Well I don't think that I even care
You work your life away and what do they give?
You're only killing yourself to live
Killing yourself to live
Killing yourself to live
Just take a look around you what do you see
Pain, suffering, and misery
It's not the way that the world was meant
It's a pity you don't understand
Killing yourself to live
Killing yourself to live
I'm telling you
Believe in me
Nobody else will tell you
Open your eyes
And see the lies, oh yeah
You think I'm crazy and baby
I know that it's true
Before that you know it I think
That you'll go crazy too
I don't know if I'm up or down
Whether black is white or blue is brown
The colors of my life are all different somehow
Little boy blue's a big girl now
So you think it's me who's strange
But you've never had to make the change
Never give your trust away
You'll end up paying till your dying day
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
HVACctrl, I am not sure how touting the benefit of daycare is any less classless than touting the benefit of being a parent that wants to be at home with their kids and then makes the personal/financial sacrifices to do it. Children can learn a tremendous amount from their parents being there for them.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.
I usually go the don't ask, don't answer route with questions/issues like this.
I am sure every parent knows what is best for their child/children.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
By the way, thank you for reminding me about scholarships. I had completely forgotten about that option!
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
It is not easy what you have decided to do. I hope things work out for you and your family.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-05)
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Engineering jobs vary- some expect you to put in a lot of overtime, travel, etc., which might be difficult in your case. But that's certainly not ALL of them.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
I think CRG has put it nicely (even though I would think that in today's world daycare is a much better head start than a stay-at-home parent option). Either ways, you take a few years off to deal with the kids and then you have to move on. You don't have to go and die (professionally) because you had kids. Very soon they won't need you all that much, and then not at all, so there's no need to sacrifice the rest of your life for a few years that they will need you. Do pursue your career the best you can while they're there. As ctoper said, you can go to school during this time - you won't be getting any sleep at night anyway, so you might as well study
Also, do you plan to be a single mother? By what you say, it seems so. Won't your boyfriend/husband help any?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
What about tutoring students in math and science? You could work as much as you wanted, make a bit of extra money, and keep those math brain cells alive.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
I'm not sure my point came across like I meant it. A guy I knew personally who knew our baby was in daycare said to me, "I don't think people should have kids if they are going to just put them in daycare". THAT was classless in my opinion. It was as if he slapped me in the face with his blunt statement on the way the world should be. He could have worded it differently; he could have kept his comments to himself; he could have done many things differently if he had more class. I was merely referring to that incident and the brash, holier-than-though attitude he thrust upon me. I had enough class to keep my thoughts about him, his wife and the fact that they were raising their grandchild from a teenage, unwed daughter to myself. I displayed class in that situation. He didn't.
I did not mean that if anyone has an opinion on this board one way or another regarding daycare that it is classless to discuss it. His assertion was confrontational, condescending and directed at me, whether he meant it or not.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ed
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
If it won't count towards a degree, I wouldn't pay $200 for a class. Get a good book and learn it yourself.
BTW, if you really want to do something to benefit financially, *you* become that great daycare provider that everybody's looking for.
It's the only home-based business where you can deduct non-excusive use of home space. In my wife's case, we wrote off 100% area * every hour a kid was there or wife was working on business (cleaning, bookkeeping, shopping) / hours per year.
It's tough, though. My wife bailed and went back to teaching high school part time.
--------------------
How much do YOU owe?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
--------------------
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
There are two things to mind, IMO: one is that restless people, even if they're just restless, aren't happy people. The second is, when your kids are off to the world and your husband is away, you'll have no chance to get back in engineering even if you'll have all the time in the world, and more.
In the meantime, the daycare idea sounds great too! Maybe you could earn money like that for schooling?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Education and parenthood are both life changing experiences. And I truly have no real advice that I could give other than to give you two real life examples. Tough decisions ahead of you. Financial and otherwise. If you get the education first and then start a family, how quickly will your skills erode. If you start the family first, will you have either the time or resources to return to school. It seems at the moment that you are limited financially even with both working.
I went the education first route. Starting the family happened significantly later (later 30s in age). My wife worked full time and we built a significant nest egg with plans for retirement, emergencies etc. Mortgage and auto loans are essentially our only carried debt. My 5 year old will start kindergarten in the fall. 20 years of engineering allowed my wife to work part time or not at all during the first 5 years of his life. My book knowledge has eroded simply through disuse of certain aspects of my college education. In 13 years, I have no idea what the cost of a college education will be for my son. I will be almost 60 by the time he graduates assuming he wants to go on to college.
A close friend just had his graduation party this past weekend. We are close to the same age. He left school after getting married and starting a family. Both worked full time, and he began to take classes again towards his degree. Their family has significantly higher debt and his eldest will be graduating from high school within the next year. His education is current and with his previous work experience, his opportunities for advancement are significant. Within 7-10 years, his 3 children will be on their own.
Is one path better than the other? I couldn't say. My friend and I are both equally content and I would say both paths end up likely being equal. Whatever path you decide, you will need the full support of your husband to truly be successful. If it is your dream to also become an engineer, go after it. Life without a dream to persue can become merely dull existence.
Regards and good luck,
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
You can work from home.
It is easy to get into without any degree.
You can use the knowledge you have now.
It can be more flexible but watch out for traveling.
You will get to work on engineering projects but won't be involved in the details or all of the decisions.
The pay will be less consistent but better than part time engineering work.
With my wife the demands of studying were just to much with kids. It didn't help that the school was 45 minutes away and the classes were all at night. YMMV
The field of engineering is important. Civil is very different from programing or chemical in what they demand and how flexable they are.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
You can go back to college later...you can't have kids later.
If I had to choose my kids or my career...career loses 100% of the time.
Do what makes you happy (with your husband's consideration of course), not what you feel is expected.
You get one life to live, don't put it on the backburner expecting to live it later...it might not be there when you get back to it.
Good luck.
Brian
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
I'd also try to point out that "now" and "later" are both very relative when it comes to having kids and schooling. While some doctors say age of 36 is ideal for childbirth and brings least damage to a woman's body, others say that a woman should give birth by the age of 25 "for her own good", so to speak. Also, I don't think a 25-year-old and a 50-year-old will do same at any form of education. A fresh young brain wtill in "learning mode" will always beat the older brain providing they have the same amount of background experience in the targeted field.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Check out the "work/personal balance" e-forum on mentornet.net for some discussion of having kids before/during work. There's some BS on that site but some good discussions as well.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
OBGY advise from an engineering forum.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
As for deffects in child's development, the latest genetical studies show (although unconfirmed) that the risk is indeed higher in children concieved at later age but mostly because of deffective sperm that's produced by older men. However, latest studies show that this, too, might be only partially true as it seems ovars produce cells all through woman's life. (So far, it was believed that all female reproductive cells are produced while the woman is still an embryo, and then released monthly).
Also, I suppose this indicates we're pretty much clueless about that, too.
So I suppose nobody can say anything with good solid foundation on this subject.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
But ashereng has it right--anyone who relies on ANYTHING they read here (or that they read in a sidebar blurb in an in-flight magazine) regarding physically optimal timing for childbirth pretty much deserves what they get.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
agreed, for medical stuff one should rely on their doctor, not 'net... What's wrong with multiple births? You solve everything at once!
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Not something one should be going out of one's way to encourage.
In my non-medical opinion.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
In my non-medical opinion, I know quite a few twins, and they all seem to be just fine. Also, some women are genetically predispositioned to have a multiple birth, and it has nothing to do with their age. Just take what nature gives, I think the real question was how to have a career and a family without either suffering because of the other.
Personally, I don't think it's really possible. You'll always end up missing your son's games for being at work, and you'll always end up missing the business meetings for kids being sick. the trick is to find a balance.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
That's symptomatic of engineers... we think we understand everything: medical science, economics, law, marketing... but that's a very serious underestimate of other people's expertise.
A design calc from a marketeer is suspect. So is a markering plan, a contract or a medical diagnosis from an engineer!
Having said that, if you see how easily our 23 yr old secretaries recover from child birth (the next day they're as beautiful again as 9 months before), why would one wait until 36?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
"A design calc from a marketeer is suspect. So is a markering plan, a contract or a medical diagnosis from an engineer!"
Or
Parental advice from a non-parent. Pregnancy/child birth advice from a non-parent. Etc. ad nauseum. If you haven't made the trip, don't try and be a tour guide. :)
Brian
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
You mentioned the increased need for cesarian section as a major downside to multiple births. I recently attended a talk on the subject and one of the doctors speaking was putting forward the view that c sections were actually no more dangerous than vaginal birth. While the mortality rate is something like 3 times higher for c sections, his claim was that this was due to the elevated risks that woman who required c sections already faced and not due to the procedure itself. He also said that the mortality rate for c sections was dropping faster then the mortality rate for vaginal births. He proposed that in the near future the mortality rate for c sections may even drop below that of vaginal births.
*Disclaimer:I have know idea how much merit his argument holds. I have not seen the statistics. I have no knowledge of surgery. I have never given birth to anyone.*
You just reminded me of the talk and I thought I would share.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Surgical procedures have had a rocky history. Radical mastectomies used to be the norm for breast cancer.
Even in normal vagina births, there's great controversy about a certain surgical procedure intended to minimize tissue tearing.
TTFN
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
And I don't mean to say that twins are always problematic. It's all an odds game.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
From a purely financial perspeective I would say if you plan on taking time off work to study, and then start a family after you have your degree, that it is not worth it, you'll have lost 5 years salary to get your qualification, which you will not then use for another few years.
If you could study part time while you are bringing up you family then you may find the financial $$ work out a little more in your favour. Although I can not imagine trying to study with kids runnng around, getting you up in the night, being sick etc etc. From experience, I can truly say don't think once they sleep through the night at six weeks you are over the worst of it, that was the easy bit.
If you love kids that much and want 4 you may also find you do not want to go back to work, and with 4 kids you'll find it hard to work full time as the cost of child care etc, once they are at school there are all the holidays, sick days etc etc.
If your husband is not very supportive of the idea that will make things tricky as well, you'll need lots of support from him to have kids and to study.
But after all that if you really want/need to do this, and are willing to make the time and the sacrifice to do it, then I would say go for it. Money is only one factor in life and surely money spent on education is not wasted.
So what if it takes 10 years part time work? To be honest you never know what the future holds and from personal circumstances it is very important for me to know that I can support my family myself if anything happened to my husband.
Another option is to consider going a slightly different path - do you need a degree? could you move into something like perhaps becoming a design draughtsperson? You could learn on the job, I imagine part time work would be more readily available and if you are good you will earn as much as an engineer, be able to get very involved in the work you are doing and even work from home.
One other thing to remember - having kids kills your brain cells (or maybe all the sleepless nights do that) so the sooner you can study the better - the older you get the harder it is to study.
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
I have known a number of women who were in grad school (even PhD programs) with babies, including one single mother who went to grad school for the express purpose of having more time with her child than she would with her 9-to-5 job. I haven't seen this in engineering school (mostly because of the demographics, I suspect), and don't know if it would be more or less difficult to accomplish than in a social science program. (I myself had more spare time as an engineering grad student than as a social science grad student.)
I have known men who went through engineering school with babies, but they were not the primary caregivers.
I have seen my mother and many of my friends go through pregnancies in their 30s & 40s. Much more paranoia on the part of their doctors, a very high incidence of twins (including a case of twin-to-twin transfusion which fortunately cleared up), and more/worse complications (as compared to earlier pregnancies) like gestational diabetes and placental hemorrhaging.
On the other hand, I haven't heard a single one of those women say, "Gosh, knowing what I do now, I wish I'd planned to have that child earlier."
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
I sort of thought that engineers were also human beings and were competent in other fields aside of engineering. I also thought a unique property of a human being was the possibility of learning on other people's experience without seeing it done or trying it themselves.
So basically a woman who wants to be an engineer can't come to an engineering forum and ask such a question because:
a) they're engineers.They wouldn't know anything about families, childbirths or such a field of medicine, or anything ELSE which isn't related to engineering. Actually, they should refrain from boiling an egg for not having a proper certificate.
b) they're mostly men. They never were a mother so they don't know first thing about it, or about being a mother raising children and going to college, or about being a mother and raising children and working, or abour sore nipples once the kid started teething. But that doesn't matter, because they're engineers so apply rule #1.
c) the women on the forum who never gave birth and had children are in the same position of ignorance as all other men. But that doesn't matter, because they're engineers so apply rule #1.
d) the women who WERE in such a position (had a child, had a child&studied, had a child&worked) here are just engineers so apply rule #1.
And superficially reasoning, one would think an engineering forum would be a right place to ask whether engineering career was compatibile with family... I love this forum, lol!
Joking aside, I think HgTx has about the best grasp on it. I know a lot of women who had kids very early, and now have sucessful careers as kids grew up and the mothers were young enough to go on. These "kids" are now my age. I also know a lot of women who had children later, after establishing their careers. And I also never heard any of them say "I wish I had that kid later/earlier in life".
Maybe this is just one of those things where you have to go by the gut... if you're generation 2001. you're young enough for everything. I still don't understand why you gave up schooling, though, it's 2006 and it seems you still have no kids...?
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
Examples:
1. The "mommy track"--fewer opportunities offered because employers make assumptions about the parent's commitment or availablility.
2. The trouble getting hired with a chronological hole in one's resume and with experience that is not quite state of the art.
3. Increased need to be away from work because of sick child or school functions. (See also #1 above.)
4. Angst over not being able to be home with a sick child or attend school functions.
5. Etc.
There are ways to come to terms with angst. There are ways to keep a toe in one's industry while off doing the parent thing. It's all doable. Just don't be shocked when things don't go perfectly...
...like the woman on another forum who had backed out of employment offers in order to follow her husband around the globe and bear his children, and then was annoyed because several years later employers weren't just snapping her right up. She seemed to feel she should have been rewarded for doing her religious and social duty. And sure, she may very well be rewarded--but not by the job market!
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Question for Parents and Future Parents
It took me a little bit to figure out that you must be a woman. No problem there, there were many women in my engineering school and the women engineers I have worked with are just as competent as the guys; some more so, some less so (but probably mostly more so).
Anyway, the reason I write is twofold: I worked very hard to get my own education, floundering around, quitting colleges several times before I got really serious. I finally got my BS and MS when I was 31. This may be cliched, but I also discovered that going to college had disciplined my thinking, broadened my mind, taught me the joy of delayed gratifications and working towards a goal, etc, etc. If for no other reason than this you might consider continuing your own education, even part-time.
One of my friends has a civil engineering degree from Vanderbilt. She got married, kids, etc, then she helped her husband run their commercial real estate investment company. Once the kids were on their own, in college, she wanted to get back into engineering. Without too much trouble she was able to get a job with the city public works department (streets, highways, water distribution, that sort of thing). So, this shows that a return to the professional workforce can be done.
To follow up on my first point of college providing a discipline for ones mind, etc. Once you have a college degree many more doors are open to you. Even if you don't work specifically in the discipline in which you were trained or educated (say, engineering) the college education makes one a better candidate for any number of other positions. I know of engineers who worked in banks, insurance companies, stock brokerages as analysts, etc, etc. There is no need to be locked into engineering.
Maybe a final issue is complete college to provide a role model for your children. Show them that they can achieve all that they can by doing it yourself.
Good Luck!