Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
(OP)
All,
Does anyone have experience with using thin brick in tilt-up? I'm working on a project using sandwich panels where we have thin brick embedded in the architectural wythe and the customer is having a fit over quality. They keep saying the brick will crack, the brick will crack...bla, bla, bla. Can anyone tell me their experience with this situation? Do I have a legitimate shot at quality or should I tell them "so what, concrete cracks too".
TIA
Does anyone have experience with using thin brick in tilt-up? I'm working on a project using sandwich panels where we have thin brick embedded in the architectural wythe and the customer is having a fit over quality. They keep saying the brick will crack, the brick will crack...bla, bla, bla. Can anyone tell me their experience with this situation? Do I have a legitimate shot at quality or should I tell them "so what, concrete cracks too".
TIA






RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
Yes, cracks will reflect.
I would opt for putting brick veneer outside the panels. If you use the top cast side as your interior space behind the brick, you can embed brick ties in the concrete.
UcfSE has a good point....let them be a part of such a decision since it is not a structural issue, but an aesthetic one.
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
Ron - do you speak from experience or by judgment? I'm not knocking your insight, just trying to fully grasp the issue. If you’re speaking from experience can you tell me if you’ve seen the same thing occur in precast members?
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
I have worked on projects with both pre-cast brick embedment and tilt panel embedments.
There was a company at one time that shipped the pre-cast panels to Saudi Arabia from the US for pre-cast hotel rooms. Everything was completed prior to shipping, then they were transported and erected. Presented an interesting bond problem with the brick, but it worked out for the most part.
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
This veneer was applied after the panel was erected. The cause of the delamination of the veneer from the tilt up panel was no bond of the mortar substrate. The cause of the lack of bond was the form release oil. I would have missed this but it makes complete sense.
The speaker said that acid washing, pressure washing, and mechanical roughening help, but may not do the trick. She said that the best method is to mechanically attach a metal lathe screen to the concrete, put the mortar substrate/setting bed over this, and then set your veneer.
This being said, I see architectural precast wall panels with tile brick all the time and have not heard of any veneer delamination, but I think that they maybe set the brick tiles in the cast bed before casting?
The answer most likely depends on when the veneer is applied. If it is applied in the casting bed (on site or at precasting plant) then there is probably good bond. If it is applied after the panel is erected, then the lathe and mortar backer seems a good answer.
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
Essentially, you lay out the brick face down, and the irregularity of the rear face of the thin brick creates a mechanical bond (not subject to the form oils, etc.) with the concrete which is placed over it.
Once cured, the panel is lifted and the brick looks like real stacked brick and I believe there have been many many successful projects using this method.
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
I'm trying to determine what industry standard is. How many bricks can damage during a panel pick or during shipping? Concrete can be labeled as an architectural finish Grade 'A' so how does thin brick fall into this category?
http://www.metrothinbrick.com/
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
I also found a link to TCA (Tilt-Up Concrete Association) within this link and they may be able to get you some feedback on the track record for cast thin brick veneer.
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
Structure Magazine Link
It looks like this project used regular brick, then cut the brick in half to cast into the concrete. The latest systems I've seen deal with specially manufactured brick that may (I don't know for sure) possess different properties that would avoid this type of failure -
They seem to indicate that moisture was let in through the brick itself, and through the raked "mortar" joints and freezing/expansion caused the distress.
RE: Tilt-Up with Thin Brick Quality
The standard lists size tolerances, ASTM Standards and testing standars. A document that all architectrual precast producers are using when specifying and ordering thin brick.
The PCI spec will be circulated to the Tilt-up Concrete Assoc.(TCA) very soon. I am certain that TCA will utilize the same standards once the TCA members have had a chance to review it in detail.