×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer
6

Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

(OP)
I feel that to be a successful Structural Engineer one needs careful planning, continuous learning and valuable guidance from the senior engineers or colleagues. But not all the young engineers have the opportunity to improve ones skills and shine under the guidance of a learned Engineer. So, I would like to have your opinions, suggestions or experiences that could help young engineers like me to have a right start to our professional career. Thanks.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

royces,

I think that it should be compulsory for all graduate engineers to work under the guidance of a senior engineer, sort of an internship. This should be a requirement to receive a degree as it is for medical doctors.

As well,
- learn to do all tasks longhand and gain an understanding of what you are doing and what the results should look like without using design aids or computers.

 - never use a computer program to do calculations in an area you do not understand. And always study what the program says it does and compare its results to what you would expect.

 - once you have done this, use computers with caution questioning the results and comparing to your understanding of how it should work and what the results should be.

e.g. FEM software is taught as being accurate. It is not even an accurate analysis tool in many situations and can be made much less accurate by input that is not consistent and the understanding of this requires a good understanding of how FEM works. And the program will not tell you that. You have to realise it yourself based on your understanding of engineering and structures.
But is is assumed by many that the design results from FEM design programs are accurate because they come from FEM software. The design routines are not FEM, they are post-processor routines and can easily be wrong.

 - never assume a computer is anything more than a glorified calculator. You, as the engineer, are the designer. You make the design decisions.

 - never assume that a computer program is carrying out all of the code checks automatically. You must know all of the design code design and detailing requirements and make sure they are all satisfied.

 -  at the end of the day, if something looks wrong, it probably is. This could be caused by incorrect data input, incorrect modelling or software bugs.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

When you first start work, go ahead and look up and read all the state rules in your state pertaining to engineering licensing and practice.  That'll give you an idea of what's required of your experience and give you some idea of what you are or are not allowed by law to do.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Why wouldn't all young engineers have to ability to find a senior engineer to work under, especially in the structural arena?  When I graduated, there were PE's every where looking to hire EI's.  And to add, never take the senior engineers word for something if you do not feel comfortable.  I often used to bring home code books after work to verify something that I was "told" during the day.  You just have to be VERY careful how you present errors that you found.  That will help develop another important skill for the work place, politics!

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Please provide us with an example of why your, or someone else would not be able to find a position.  This would be a very good reference if we could have people post where and how they found their jobs.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

(OP)
Thankyou all for your valuable responses. And, to be more specific I am working under a Senior Engineer. But, not always you can find a mentor in the Engineer you are working under. I mean to say that the PE would just answer to your specific questions or sometimes you might not even get an answer. Not all engineers feel the urge to train the EITs by sharing their experiences and help them learn by questioning. Sometimes they just want to take things for granted. As rapt pointed out I have couple of friends who are so good at a few FEM programs that they don't know why and what they are doing. I am just looking for some valuable guidelines which could keep young engineers like me on track and focused. I hope what all I said did make some sense. I am looking forward for more responses like the few above.

Scottiesei- I hope I did answer to your first question. But I am not sure about your second one. Can you please be more specific on that. Thanks.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

(OP)
When I started looking for jobs, I used to spend a lot of time going though the openings available on Job search portals like Yahoo jobs and Monster. But, this didn't really help me a lot. Then I started working things out in a different way. I used to shortlist all the structural consulting firms that interest me based on geographical preference. Then I email to each and every company inquiring if they have any openings in the area that I was interested in. Honestly, this approach worked pretty well for me. I used to rely on www.superpages.com for getting a list of firms. But, I used to do my homework before I contacted any firm. And, all the professional organizations like ASCE, ACI, AISC etc. are also a great source if you are looking for a new job.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Royces, it sounds like you did your homework to find your position and that is what I meant by my second question.  When I graduated, I went straight to the classifieds in the paper.  I lucked out and found a group that I progressed with for the next 7 years.  As far as not finding a mentor in your senior, I too had a similar situation.  BUT, I found that the lack of answers put me in to the code books more and more.  In a sense, I guess lack of direction was some what a teaching skill?!?  Discussing projects with fellow engineers via friends or places like this board are a great way to keep educating yourself.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Go into medicine... <G>  Hours are less, the money is better and not anywhere near the liability...

Dik

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

royces,
its good to hear there are others in the same position as me!  i frequently get what i consider 'bad' answers from so-called senior engineers.  im not sure i have much to add to this topic, but i share your frustration.  i would say to consider searching for a new firm.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

I would say get an MBA and go into the "business" field of some kind. The work is less, the liability is 0, and if you work your way to the top there are million dollar pay offs!

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

I started my job search when I began my senior year in the mid-Fall.  We were required to furnish resumes to the Department Head.  He had his senior secretary screen them and she made some corrections.  They were forwarded to the career placement office.  Next we had an interview in the career placement office and they set us up for interviews as various companies visited the  school.

About your career ... Getting asssigned an engineer that wants to develop you is extremely important.  The problem is that most engineers don't see the benefit to them is worth the cost.  Thet spend a few years developing an engineer, he passes his exam, and then he moves to a new company.  What's he got to show for his effort?

I was fortunate that I found such an engineer after three years of working.  Then I developed about four or five junior engineers.  Thet all look up to me and seek my advice about things, sometimes not even about work, but we don't work in the same organization anymore.

Finally, do what you can to perform calcs by hand or with Mathcad or another similar tool.  Use "Canned" computer solutions as little as possible until you can reproduce the results yourself.  The admonition against FE programs is well given.  I worked in an organization where the boss just cracked the whip and guys were using FE when they had no hope of doing the work by hand.  There were all kinds of screwups and the senior engineers had to fix the results on their own time.  I won't work there again.

Good Luck.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

I'd recommend going to work for a mid-sized firm (5 or 6 licensed engineers) that will allow you work on a variety of projects involving wood, steel, masonry and concrete.  ask if the engineers will let you go with them into the field to do site visits.  you will learn as much about engineering by seeing things being constructed and hearing the contractors discuss issues as you will sitting in the office all day.  

I agree with the statement that just because a senior engineer said so, doesn't make it so.  but at the same time, beware of being disagreeable with them.  I have two interns working for me.  one of them argued with me about an issue because it didn't seem possible to him, but he had yet to experience the issue.  "trust but verify... diplomatically."  pick their brains, but don't distrust the older engineers.  

ask lots of questions, but be thoughtful about what you ask.  think about a solution, ask if you are on the right track with it instead of asking to take the easy way out.  use judgement based on what you've learned from your mentors.  during the first six months, you will likely be a pest with lots of questions.  after one year, the type of questions should become more thoughtful and less frequent.  if you are still asking the same type of questions after one year that you asked in the first six months, you may not be trying to become an engineer.

take some intitiative to help your company finish work as quickly as possible.  it's not just a job.  your firm sells service.  if the service stinks, your firm has nothing to sell.  the service is only as good as the people providing it, and you are one of those people.  if you do a good job and are timely with finishing your work, your bosses will likely remember that.  if you have two weeks to do a job and can finish in one week, do so.  don't milk the project budget appearing to be busy.  "kill it and bill it."

attend every AISC, ACI and structural engineering organization seminar or meeting you can possibly attend.  especially the ones where it only costs you the price of lunch or dinner.  if your boss offers to send you, go.  don't be afraid to ask to attend a seminar, but don't be mad if the boss says no.  AISC and ACI seminars are expensive.  offer to split the costs or pay on your own.  the amounts are tax deductible and you can learn alot early in your career.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

(OP)
Dinosaur and Archeng59 - Thank you for your comments. I have learnt a valuable lesson after quitting my first job due to lack of guidance. In this busy world not everyone has time to answer all your questions. But, you could get what you want by doing some research by yourself, and encouraging the fellow engineers to get into the conversation. Hence, instead of making them answer my questions I am just making them open up. Its really working well for me. But, there could be many other innovative ways that you all might have tried when have started your career. Try to share them with us. Thanks again

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Take them to lunch to discuss a topic.  My seniors always appreciated when I did that.  Plus for about 10 bucks you can get thousands worth of info and you don't have to worry about some one being too busy in the office.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

"the amounts are tax deductible"- I don't think so.  When I was filling out my forms this year, I noticed that unreimbursed business expenses (which is what I assume this would fall under) are only deductible if they are over a certain percentage of income.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Be patient, there is no way to obtain a specific level of experience quickly (for example, say 10 years experience in 5 years time). However there are ways to keep the process moving:

1. Even if not required, "revisit" previous projects to see how things turned out. Incorporate what you find out into future efforts.

2. Pay special attention to projects that have "problems", there is much more to be learned under difficult circumstances than when things go right.

3. If possible, seek out assignments that are challenging and "push, but not exceed, the envelope" of your background and level of comfort. Your "envelope" will expand, over time. A former boss often asked potential employees to explain if they had (for example) "20 years of experience or 1 year experience, twenty times?"

www.SlideRuleEra.net idea

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

It's already been said, but bears repeating:  trust, but verify.  I have often found standard practices to be incorrect, because nobody bothered to question it before.  "Why do we do this?"  "Because that's how we've always done it."  Your mentor should be able to give you a better reason than that.

As archeng59 said, you should try to have at least a handful of engineers to learn under.  They will give you several different perspectives and ideas.  I started out under a single PE, and all I learned was how she did things.

Also, the biggest lesson I've learned is that there is almost always more than one correct way.  When I realized that, I gained a lot more confidence in my designs, rather than constantly obsessing over whether I'm doing it the "right" way.  Ten engineers can produce ten different solutions, each of them equally valid.  If you can defend your design, you did it right.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

rholder98 is correct.  there always is more than one way to do something.  I spend alot of time looking at other projects under construction to see how the other engineers solved a problem.  whenever possible, I look at construction documents prepared by others to see what they are showing that I might not be showing.  I once made a costly mistake to let an older engineer work on two of my projects.  this guy is very knowledgable, but he made two decisions that I didn't agree with.  we discussed it and he told me those ways were done before and successful.  he used the "I've been doing this longer than you" comment more than once.  I didn't really believe in what he wanted to do, but caved to his experience.  It turned out I was correct and he was not.  In my opinion, he held his ground because I have less experience than he does and it angered him that I challenged his opinion.  from now on, if I don't like something, it doesn't happen.  I don't care what the more experienced engineers say.  now, that older engineer is correct more often than not and I listen to his opinions.  I "trust but verify".

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

I agree with most of the comments above.  It is better, in my experience, to be in a smaller firm (5-6 PEs) that does a wide variety of projects.  The large companies are great on benefits, but sometimes lack the diversity a young EIT needs to develope there skills.  At a large company, for instance, you could get pigeon held into doing one type of construction (say you only design Best Buys all day).

Also, some of the things that helped me was to go on as many site visits as possible.  It allowed me to view the things I was specifing and designing.

Learn from everyone in the office.  You got a degree, good job, but you are not "better" than anyone.  For instance, a qualified draftsman can teach you a lot about detailing, and how to connect your structural members.  It is easy sometimes to obtain a member's size, but how you erect that member can be challenging.  

Good luck.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Try to go our into the field to see your plans come to life.  Ask the Contractor what could be done to help in the constructability of your plan, remember he/she is a Contractor so they will always find ways that will be cheap for them and do not understand the calculations that got you to the final plan.  With this in mind I always try to make it to the field.  If the firm that you work for uses computer programs manly, do a hand calculation every so often so you know how the solution was accomplished, plus you can not take the computer to the PE Exam.

Good luck in your field.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

royce
Iam a Civil/Structural engineer with  4 years of experience. Having worked for my first firm for 3 years with a staff of 500, i had the problem of having the right mentor at the right time as everyone seem to be busy galavanting through their own busy workload.
My last year was different, i now worked in a office of 7 and my senior is a structural guru with 40 years experience!! Given the small office and my senior's vast experience i seem to have leant the same amount of stuff over 1 year compared to my first 3 years!!
My advise "find a small firm" with 10 or less staff and learn from the old fellas!! Dont be afraid to "ask".

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Just for the sake of argument...

I know a number of young engineers and some of them are a real pain in the butt. Always asking questions before spending the time to understand the problem or arguing about the methods to be used while displaying marked ignorance of the basic structural philosophies.

These people will no doubt improve over time but their attitude provides sufficient justification to keep them at arms length and to give limited task specific advice only.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

One thing that's helped me is never to let the naysayers get you down.  It seems like there's always someone complaining about being a structural engineer and the liability, blah blah.  "I shouldve been a pharmacist".  All I gotta say is that "the grass is always greener on the other side".  And as long as you give it all you got, you'll be successful.

Go all out and learn as much as you can on your own if you cant get a great mentor.  There are plenty of resources out there.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

(OP)
pba, I understand your concern. But, you have mistaken the entire purpose of the thread. We are not here to debate about whose good and whose not. I hope you share my concern too. I appreciate you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences and expect to see more of them. Thanks.

RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

   All of us are trying to reach the same goal. I was structural design engineer for 4 years in a small consulting firm ( two engineers when I arrived as an EIT)in Colorado. I moved out there after college, on a whim: alone, no job, with the money I saved working summers at the steel mills. I, as many, had no idea of what the true meaning of what a structural engineer was.  
   In the beginning, I spent many long nights at the libraries of the colorado school of mines, and CU Boulder.  There I spent my time reading books by Ambrose, McCormick, and believe it or not, all three volumes of the 1997 UBC. On several occasions I have validated my calculations against my superiors because they did not keep updating their own knowledge of materials, codes, analysis.  So as a not so old engineer to a young one here is the advice that I could offer you:

-In the beginning immerse yourself in engineering analysis ,design, and codes-I can't stress that enough.  Read everything possible about anything in structural engineering---you will run across it one day - I promise you that. (AISC and Structural Engineer Magazine, old company drawings a Plus)This is how you will be feeding your children one day, attempt to be the best at what you do.

-Learn everything by hand first; in your spare time. And when possible learn this from the old timers. I watched a young licensed SE (older than me)put a entire building into into RISA 3D for moment frame results that I could have done in 5 minutes using the Portal frame method (learned that from a brilliant engineer 35+ years exp who would not let me touch a computer for the first three months I worked at the company)- for those young guys out there that don't understand (1 2 2 1) - learn it.

-Older engineers don't think your a pain in the butt, just don't ask the same question twice.  Engineers are not competitive by nature, they all share information readily. I kept a journal of all the new things I learned per day/ per subject; Building Code, Steel, Concrete, lateral design etc. and review it atleast once a month- still have mine, and I still review it.

-learn new methods of engineering and analysis but approach cautiously. When approaching an older engineer with a new subject to you, at least research the basics of that subject very well so that you could hold a constructive meeting with them - (Example-don't ask about lateral design when you didn't research the difference between rigid and flexable diaphragms.

-Don't shoot off at the mouth to contractors just because you have an engineering degree and you think your college education means something.  Chances are that the superintendant with the jelly stain on on his shirt knows the building better than you do at your experience level.  THe first years of your job noone will take you seriously, and don't expect them to--you earn respect as you go along  ---DON'T HIDE BEHIND YOUR TITLE --STAND BEHIND YOUR NUMBERS.

Now I am a 30 yr old general manager at a steel fabricating company in chicago, and engineering aides me everyday and gives me the upper edge.

And so that there is no mistake

the 50+ hours are still the same,
the zero appreciation is still the same,
and the enormous liability is still the same.






RE: Valuable tips to a Graduate Structural Engineer

Royces-

My 2 cents worth:

-  Consider specializing early in your career(bridges, buildings, transmission towers, etc.).  Learn the codes and manuals for that field inside and out, up and down, backwards and forwards.  There will always be a place for you.  Whether it's IBC, the AASHTO bridge codes, the ASCE/ANSI codes for transmission towers or what not, they are simply getting too complicated for people to be jacks of all trades.  In my field (bridges), companies lose money all the time trying to do bridges with building people who may have done a bridge or two early in their career.  They simply do not know the codes well enough to be productive.

-  Be very, very careful when questioning standard practicies.  It may not be the best way, or even close, but it may be the way the client wants it done.  Unless there is a safety/failure risk, just shut up and do it.  Very competent engineers have lost their jobs by wasting time (and money) arguing about standard practices on relatively uncomplicated work.

-  Become a CAD ace on top of your engineering skills.  If possible, learn both Microstation and Autocad as well as any CAD package specific to your field.  The work flow of the engineer handing a hand sketch to a CAD guy doesn't work real well on the business side anymore.  Experienced CAD guys are becoming too expensive to pair with engineers and young tech-school grad CAD guys are too limited in what they can do.  

Finally, learn to be business aware if you choose to work in consulting.  Everything you do has an impact on the company.  Even your raises, which mean nothing more than you have to become even more productive.  There are other skills important to the company than just engineering means and methods.  That's why the PM's, who may have very little hands-on impact on a project, make the big bucks.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources