sharing the knowledge ???
sharing the knowledge ???
(OP)
I have been thinking about this situation which often happens to me :
Sometime you might work / study hard to figure a path to solve a problem. After you spent plenty of time you finally figure out a solution .
However the solution is useful for many people at your job.
Then all your colleagues seeing that you solved that problem, ask you to show them how to solve the same problem.
Then this situation happens repeatedly and mostly is not reciprocal.
What would you do ?
Sometime you might work / study hard to figure a path to solve a problem. After you spent plenty of time you finally figure out a solution .
However the solution is useful for many people at your job.
Then all your colleagues seeing that you solved that problem, ask you to show them how to solve the same problem.
Then this situation happens repeatedly and mostly is not reciprocal.
What would you do ?





RE: sharing the knowledge ???
My position has never been weakened by sharing knowledge. As for the trolls who don't do so, don't mind them. They simply have other priorities. It's not worth the effort to turn them into "sharing creatures".
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I got a great room, an audience, free food, time to put the course on, credit towards my continuing education with my PEng association, and recognition for what I know.
So far, I have done it once.
A 3 hour course in the corporate conference room, with lazer pointer, food, coffee and goodies. Every once in a while, a senior who ever drops in to take a look at what we were doing, and askes for the danish. Oh well. I'll take whatever recognition I can get.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: sharing the knowledge ???
A year later it has gone company-wide with every deparment having their own sections, with their own information. Some people have wondered how they managed without the intranet.
I was tired of being bothered, having to explain things several times a week, or forwarding the same emails. I wasn't looking for recognition or reward, I just wanted people to leave me alone so I could do my job.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
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RE: sharing the knowledge ???
When I have time to sit down and solve a problem that no-one else has been able to solve for me, I write it up, and put it in the company's electronic library.In essence that is what you are doing. Make damn sure your boss knows that you are codifying knowledge.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I just re-read your post after having just read Greg's just above. I don't think nor do I think anyone else thought that you were acting like "quite the hot-shot". I'm not sure why, but to me it looks like he took a pot shot there. Looking back, though, I actually think I remember him doing that in the past to one of my questions for advice. I would think negative, pointed responses like that would eventually discourage engineers from using this board for what it was intended- to share and learn from one another without getting the door slammed on your fingers. As I mentioned, I guess its a teamwork thing or lack thereof.
Anyway, it looks like you have been given some good advice from others. Something I didn't menntion is that I was in a similar situation and wanted others to contribute to one another. Some tried, some didn't care and some did. But it took a while. Some just aren't wired that way. A side effect, totally unexpected and unsolicited was that I did get promoted faster than others becuase our boss noticed it. Most of the coworkers didn't hold it against me either becuase they saw and respected my drive and my sincere effort to help everyone in any way I could.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
The guy who keeps his knowledge, you know what will happen to him?
He will be doomed to stay at the same level, because everytime something happens, he will be called for every tiny problem, and will not have time to educate himself. Untill someone smarter finds another alternative and the knowledge keeper becomes redundant.
Document it, share your ideas, show them how you did it, and they will help themselves. Your name will be the first one they look for when there are new opportunities.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I build up my own special skills simply because I work in a particular niche.
The best part is to be recognised as sharing.
It often doesn't take as sometimes what you want to share isn't easily understood and that's a two way street also.
When people try to share their special knwoledge with me I sometimes think they think I am a lame brain.
As HVACcntrl says, its teamwork and its what should be encouraged by companies... for one thing, HR calls it succession planning... one day you will move on and they want to be sure that special skills don't dissappear with you. For another shared knwoledge makes the company work better.
In a well run company, failure to share is to be discouraged but it happens.
One guy I know would have kept all his logs in secret writing if he'd thought of it sooner but keeping his own private knowledge was his way of protecting his job... even though now retired they still have to call him back.
Attempts to foster an apprentice on him (explicitlly tasked with learning the "knowledge") failed as he proved very uncommunicative.
This is not a good situation.
The companies problem was they left him too long to his own devices; one of those people very difficult to manage and hence frequently "dumped" on other managers, he managed his situation very nicely but a better educated management and HR take care to try not to let it happen again.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
xerf, in our Power Plant it seems to be the same situation for me. I am really sure that I am not "the best one" in some specific subjects, but I put a lot of efforts studying, subscribing to technical magazines, searching on the web, libraries and, of course, I always visit the best virtual place (Eng-Tips Forums), in order to find solutions to our problems.
I have always asked myself: why my colleagues can not do the same? at the end, we all have to walk the same road and to share responsibilities. Why they have not the minimal interest in to improve their knowledge and, on the contrary, they remain waiting for a solution?
And sometimes, believe it or not, when a solution come up, some of them just make a small change and, automaticly come in front line claiming for applauses or recognition for that.
Some years ago, when I was in Argentina attending an specialization course, one of our mentors give to us the following advice: "permitan que el conocimiento trascienda", this in a free translation comes to be: "let the knowledge to spread".
So, I like to share my little knowledge with the people, specially with those that make their best effort.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
reading the posts again I think I more fully understand what Greg meant by:
In an environment where you are the only one sharing (giving) your knowledge, that is exactly what the "non-sharers" (taking but not giving) will be thinking and probably saying.
You are casting pearls before ungreatful swine who won't use what you give them; some people prefer to make their own mistakes and keep on making them rather than take advantage of someone elses generous sharing.
Like most things in the work environment, success requires alignment of attitudes from the management down to the rank and file.
Take your pick; customer service, suggestion schemes, knowledge sharing or anything else; if the management don't send out clear signals, it can't work as it should and any one individual enough to do something positive off their own bat is bound to be regarded with suspicion: they are the white wolf and the pack will turn on them.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
People respond to problems differently. Too many engineers will always use the same set of tools every time, regardless of the nature of the problem. A few will seek out focused solutions to problems. Those few will have a tendency to want to share their innovations for a lot of reasons (maybe they just want to be recognized, maybe they want to add to their peer's tool sets, etc.).
I've always found that the latter group were the ones that tend to survive layoffs, get interesting projects, and (often) not get promoted into management ranks ("you're just too valuable on xyz project, maybe when it is done we'll look at you for vacancies at that time"). If you can live with a life of good salaries and interesting (and often stressful) projects then keep on sharing. If you will feel that you're a failure if you don't run the circus then stop it and get your recognition for more politically correct endevours (the Christmas Party committee is always looking for a few good men, and past members are running the company).
David
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
If you are saving time and money, make sure it is known by those above you.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
Yes this is perfectly normal. How to be an effective organisation:
rule 1: share your knowledge
rule 2: don't reinvent the wheel
The one rule can't exist without the other one.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I often seek input from my peers about things I'm working on because I know it's likely that they will have a point of view I haven't considered. I discovered I needed to voice that in the begining of the question because I often got a response that indicated they were disdained with my lack of common engineering knowledge. No, I just understand that different experiences yield different results. And engineers (people) generally like to help others. This approach gives me a myriad of options to consider and I often as not select a better path than my original.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
For those out there who feel like hording knowledge will help them to appear to be the all-knowing gurus; for those who feel like not sharing will enable others to solve problems faster than it took you, who struggled to find the answer. Keep it up. You are the people who will still be in the same position 25 years from now and will be wondering how the new graduate passed you up and left you so far behind. You will write it off by coming up with excused like, "he kissed the boss' butt" or whatever makes your feeble little mind feel better. ITs OK, we need people like you. It takes all kinds. The more selfish, arrogant, scared workers like you, the more we shine!
Why are you so scared about your abilities that you feel if you share your knowledge people will then know what you know and your stock will drop? Are you tat marginal in your capabilities? That's kind of sad. I'm glad I don't have to be so self-conscious about my abilities that I need to create a moat around myself to hoard all my knowledge and attempt to make myself seem superior.
Unsolicited advice? That's not what is required. One method is to create a folder on the server that anyone can access. Within it, add Word or Excel (or whatever)Documents explaining a problem that you battled through to a resolution. Co-workers can access it whenevr they want. If they stumble across the same problem, hopefully your pearl of wisdom will be ther for theor benefit. They can draw from the well at their own accord.
This is leadership. This is teamwork. If you can't understand it, I hope, for your own benefit and career that you will one day. But I understand that the weak and marginally capable will fight it.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
If we as a department can help one another out and save time, guess what? The company benefits from our efficiency. When the company benefits, we benefit by greater raises, greater bonuses. Step out of the box. No one is trying to cram unsolicitied advice down anyone's throat.
I've gotten that and I think it sucks. One guy I work with, for example: after I built a control panel, he had to come by and say, "I would have done it differently..." in a condescending manner. Why couldn't he swhow up during the process? Why couldn't he be a little more constructive and not gloat at what he perceived to be an inferior way?
We need to come together and drop the damn egos and help each other out in a RESPECTFUL manner.
By the way, the negative, cynical guy I mention has pretty much stagnated and not budged an inch in his career, but actually digressed over the past 25n years. Its sad.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I've worked with quite a few people who didn't bother to try to share their knowledge. Most of them were otherwise good people but were trapped in jobs where the employer wanted every single project as well as every single employee's hours to show up on the weekly timesheet as a profit. Under such micromanagement, who's going to take the time to create or pass along knowledge? What will they bill the hours to? I don't like this "penny wise & dollar foolish" situation either, but that's how a lot of companies do things.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I think I know a few things in my area of domain which others probably don't know. So, I share it with them, teach young engineers. Over the years, I have learnt one more thing. By sharing knowledge, you actually gain (a bit selfish too) knowledge, because, there are other view points raised by different people with whom you try to share your knowledge and those view points give a different dimension to one's thoughts and makes you think further than what you know. All-in-all, it's great to be sharing knowledge, regardless of whether somebody else shares it with you or not.
HVAC68
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I just want to thank you all for your sincere opinions.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
Showing them how to solve the problem themselves is the correct action to take (teach them to fish), instead of just giving out the answer (serve them fish). Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to force others to share knowledge they have.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I think you and I come from different a times a different era and probably a different culture than many of those much younger than us. I apologize if I have aged you needlessly, in which case, I guess it is just me then.
Unless someone has gone through those times themselves, or lived through the times you mentioned as a child, it is tough to empathize. Memories of people litterally walking away from their home (mortgage) because they can't affort to pay it, wondering where the next paycheck (and food) is coming from, of people willing to work for food (okay, this one is more my parent's generation, but I hear the stories), is something that like you say, stays with you. Thats why that generation have a higher savings rate those after it.
epoisses, I agree with your sentiment. People should help people, and freely share information. Now, who goes first?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I think 60 Minutes ran that story? It was silicon valley software company that was doing that I think.
Anyhoot, yup.
Once you have lived through it, and not just the "lost one job and find another in 6 months" type, but the Bethleham Steel shutting down and the entire town going ghost type ...
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
Partly because they are the older ones, usually, and often, the most knowledgeable are the most narrowly focused, meaning that they are less able to wear more hats.
Often, the choice is to keep the ones are are adequately knowledgable, but can wear more hats.
TTFN
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I'd rather put my money in a smart guy who invents two new ideas tomorrow before somebody else has been able to copy one idea he invented today.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
Now, I'm not saying write up some short-cut, spit-out-an-answer type spreadsheet for someone who is totally uneducated or experienced in our field. I'm saying that helping one another should be contageous. Those who have to hord their knowledge may not be very good engineers and that's why they are scared. Think of how much you all can learn together. Your department can become a rock-solid indispensible part of the company.
I don't know if I would fire someone for keeping knowldge to themselves, but it would certainly negatively affect my opinion of them. This would probably affect my review of that person as well.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
;+)…I have been out of college for ten years now and survived two layoffs and left before the third, gone the day’s of long term work in one company. On some programs that I have worked on we kept an Engineering note book were knowledge on how we did project is captured. I think this is a great way to capture knowledge. Everybody has to participate and if in three years some upper management ask “why did you do that and how?” one can go into the Engineering note book and pull out the reason and the methodology of how we came to that conclusion.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
My book is mine. I keep it when I go from job to job. It is like the old daytimers, except I jot everything down that I think is useful to remember...my wife's birthday, pick up the kids (that is really important), etc. Don't know if my PM wants that much detail about what I am doing.
What you are talking about is a bit more formal - knowledge capture for a company/project. That works too, except it is harder to manage. Another way is meeting minutes. Keep those online. During the meeting, you have to keep minutes anyway. Once it is online, it is searchable.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I have to disagree.
In the real world, management are very much capable of letting go skilled workers and very often do.
It is the natural reflexive response to short term problems and how convenient management find the "obligation to the shareholders" as a justifcation for some really stupid actions.
"slash and burn" management response to short term problems often sees wholesale losses of skills.
All too often it is the most experienced people they "let go" simply because they make the most impact on overheads.
Casualties:
- Investment in new products, plant and equipment.
- sales and marketing, R&D
- production engineering
- the future
Then the company closes or gets sold and "rationalised".Think about it in terms of product life cycles.
New product: R&D skills to devlop it which become surplus to this product once the product has been developed.
Production requires another set of engineering skills to get all the manufacturing bugs out. Now these guys are surplus to requirements.
Now you just depend on sales to sell it and manufacturing to make it "monkey-see monkey-do" fashion.
In a well run company one new product follows another and as any skills become surplus to one project they are picked up by another.
But one of the first casualties of "hard times" is investment.
Once that investment goes, all the skills go. Everything gets dumbed down and products become "cash cows".
Sales and marketing follow a similar skills curve until management pursuade themseleves that "80% of sales come from 20% of the client base".
This unfortunately leads to the view that you only need 20% (or less) of the sales force and no marketing.
In tough times these go near the head of the "let-go" list (often before engineering).
Next, having cut the overheads to the bone, they decide to improve profitability by increasing prices (they lost the skills set to reduce costs).
Sales drop.
Prices go up again.
Products that can't survive this get dropped and any staff that support them. Spares etc get written off (reduces the inventory... for some reason tht lost value is a benefit in the accounts?).
Some companies achieve skills loss simply through ill-conmceived policies such as ageism... someone decides that bright young minds are the future of the company and a sort of corporate self-inflicted amensia takes place.
How many products and how many companies met their end well before their time simply because of poor management?
OK, the whole world isn't like this but it happens enough to know that there are good companies and bad companies and more bad than good and in this world skills regularly get let go.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
You sound like a manager. I’m curious, do you share your knowledge of little management nuggets to the next young kid who might take your job? Do you freely give out your method and techniques of being a manager to the next person who wants your job? If one of your subordinates wants your job came up to you and said “wow you are great manager, how are you doing that” would you tell him in detail?
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I can only draw on my experience and in the past the people that they let go first are the dead wood i.e. the people that are not really doing anything. I have never seen any of the people that have a lot of knowledge in certain fields get let go. For the older generation, I feel it was part age discrimination and obsolete knowledge. The older generation that was kept on was Fellows and Principles that have a lot of knowledge and have kept up with the times. I have come back to that company and they are still here.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
No I am not presently a manager. Yes, I was a working manager of an engineering department at an equipment manufacturer before. Yes, I did all I could to help the engineers, customer service reps and field service personnel in my department learn more and get from me whatever I could give to enable them to move up- into my position if thats where it led them. I would then be moving into another, higher up position or I would be passed up by someone more capable than me. More power 'em either way it turned out.
Honestly, I would like to be in an engineering management position again. Maybe I'm not so much naive as you put it, but more of an idealist or a purist. I suppose, now that we talk about it, I wouldn't want to IMPOSE the idea of sharing onto people. That would be too communistic for me. But I feel strongly that it is needed to keep ahead of the game- the game being the other competing companies out there who are fighting neck-for-neck for the same business your company is going after.
You sound negative towards the idea of being a manager (ie, "little management nuggets"). Maybe I am reading that wrong. But if you knew me you realy wouldn't consider me a one of those stearotypical manager types as your tone implied. Don't get me wrong, I have seen my fair share of bad managers and worked for bad companies. I don't wear any super-management capes or anything. Maybe my support for sharing info is a holdover from the military where sharing info with one another could affect life or death outcomes. Who knows?
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I made the mention of firing the person because someone above said to fire him/her. I was simply responding that firing didn't seem appropriate. I would think less of someone who didn't share info. It seems that in my experience the people who were always the most highly regarded were those who shared their knowledge openly. Have you ever seen anyone get laid off or fired for giving away too much of their knowledge thereby rendering themselves useless and no longer unique? It just doesn't happen in the 21sr century unless maybe in a 3rd world country.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
My apologies for my tone, please take my comments like we were old friends having a few beers at the bar and we are getting to loud for the customers.
I have two experiences that I would like to share. Awhile back, one of the engineers developed this cool spread sheet and soon everybody was using it. When I tried to look at the macros, he had it locked. When I asked to see them, he smiled at me and said “sorry, job security”. You know what!? He is a manager now.
I have a good friend who is a manager; one of his “manager nuggets” is his method of manipulating his people to do jobs that they did not want to do. He has methods and techniques on how to do that.
Hey I got to go see you tomorrow…
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I have a really good friend who has just moved into management within the last two years. I always catch him referring to the employees under him as "resources" which really urkes (sp?) me. He just laughs and says they are.
Now, I'm gonna go finish my beer.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
Yes. In a 1st world country.
You say you are an idealist, or purist. Okay.
Like I said, unless you have gone through the situation, you won't understand - and that's okay. We each learn our own life lessons ourselves. Sometime, we learn different lessons. And that's okay too.
If a hungry wolf is chasing a herd of elk, all the elks don't have to outrun the wolf, just the slolwest elk.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
The theory still works. You can still outrun the slowest, but the slowest will be faster than before and even you will be a better person for it.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
I'm not really trying to preach. I'm just very passionate about this point and I cannot STAND it when people try to bring themselves up by stepping on the heads of those wround them and pushing them down (or by hoarding knowledge and ideas to appear to be a guru). You can get a lot higher by working together. It takes the right group of people though.
Ed
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
Those are some great comments Ed,
Thanks Chuck
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
There is absolutely no harm, to an individual, if he shares knowledge in forums like this or to a general audience. It is neither about hoarding knowledge nor showing smartness but ultimately one has to take care of one's own survival. You learn from your own mistakes.
What my experience taught me is to dispense knowledge rather than flowing it out. I was very enthusiastic during my early days and used to share what ever little information I used to learn. Joined second comapny, continued the same thing and one day boss told me, personally, not to flow out. It was a bit difficult for me initially but boss saw that I obliged him.
I went into my cocoon and new problems started. Initially, there were complaints from my colleagues that I was not helping them. Every time boss should interact if they require some help. Finally, I outdid the boss and no flow out beyond my work scope. When I left the company(boss left before me), the general comment was that I was hard working and knowledgeable yet arrogant.
Joined the third company and used to just indicate what I knew. It did work extremely well. Now I am in my fourth company and it doesn't matter anyway, for I am more or less the decision maker in my department.
I still continue to be in my cocoon, if that extra bit of knowledge doesn't help others significantly in their work or if I want to have a coverup in future.
I do keep two records, one personal and one official, of all the documents that helped me. Whoever wants to learn should do a little bit hard work by digging into them.
RE: sharing the knowledge ???
And yes, I consider whether to help someone not as right or wrong, but in terms of consequences.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?