Take a day off after attending a conference
Take a day off after attending a conference
(OP)
I was supposed to do market research in a particular field and attend any conferences related to that field. After good research found that a conference was held in Very-Nice city. Got permission from the manager to attend it.
Later I thought, going so far anyways, why not take the friday off and go sight seeing over the weekend in this Very-Nice city (ofcourse, spending from my own pocket). Got permission to take a day off. But when I said that I was going to spend the day in Very-Nice city, he said that it could be unethical and would need the VP's permission!
Respected professionals, please help me as I am a budding engineer and want to be in the ethically strong group. I am thinking very hard to see how my situation could be unethical. Could anyone please shed some light.
Later I thought, going so far anyways, why not take the friday off and go sight seeing over the weekend in this Very-Nice city (ofcourse, spending from my own pocket). Got permission to take a day off. But when I said that I was going to spend the day in Very-Nice city, he said that it could be unethical and would need the VP's permission!
Respected professionals, please help me as I am a budding engineer and want to be in the ethically strong group. I am thinking very hard to see how my situation could be unethical. Could anyone please shed some light.





RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
I don't see what's unethical about it.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
I suspect the manager is more worried about the perception among others at the company that you are getting a company-paid mini-vacation, and he would rather the VP have to answer the question should it come up.
This kind of stuff happens all the time at conferences. Just about anyone will take advantage of free airfare to visit a new city for the cost of an extra night's hotel stay. Nothing wrong with it at all.
Dean
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
TTFN
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
I also had my company fly me back through Italy on my way home from Thailand so I could meet my wife/ kids for vacation. They didn't have a problem with it and I even managed to save them $1k over the "normal" airfare.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Getting travel expenses paid to a one-day conference and taking a week's vacation might raise some eyebrows. Going to a few days of conference and sticking around for an extra day should be no problem whatsoever.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Go to the VP and get the permission. Chances are VP will get a chuckle at your boss's expense. I'm sure he/she has done the same thing before as well.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
However, this is not an ethics issue - it is an issue of who pays in regards to insurance, liability, etc.
If this is not the issue, then I agree, there are no problems. Close our your rental the one you are using during your working conference, and rent one just for you for your vacation. Your air fare should be covered, but you should need to pay separate for food and lodging, etc.
Then again, maybe your boss interpreted your request as a "paid vacation"? In which case, he will need the VP to okay something like that. That would be sweet!
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
I don't think it's at all unethical! Staying over a Saturday night usually results in less airfare which can more than cover the additional hotel and car. If you cover charges above and beyond what the company was going to pay, then no problem whatsoever. Your bosses are unenlightened tightwads!
When I was an employer, I used to pay for 1 or 2 additional hotel days and car rental for employees who wanted to stay and see the sights. It made for happier people. I saw it as a trade off for taking people away from thier homes, hobbies and family.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Also
For instance, supposing an employee has a choice between going to the BEST conference work wise, in Scum City, or a vaguely relevant conference, in Nice Place.
Does the employee talk up the benefits of vaguely relevant conference?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
David
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Would a salesman or marketing guy get second-guessed for it? Heck with that. Enough badgering engineers for enjoying a little perk. Enough double standard BS.
Ed
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
It is probably best to ask in any case. If the company policy is not clear and you take a day extra without full disclosure and permission it may be amunition for office politics.
respectfully
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
To Greg Locock posting, I wanted to go to the one in Scum-City, but that one got cancelled. So it was my manager who suggested me to go to the Nice-City.
I was actually thinking of returning the car/ signing out of hotel and starting off with new set of hotel/ cars just to stay clean and clear. Just the air tickets would be company's....
He is a good guy, my Manager. Dont know why he used "unthecial". I just got a little shocked and hurt when he said that, as I would not let anything remotely unethical come to my mind. I will probably let it go and let him win. I will stay clear from being noted as the "person who wanted a day-off at Nice City"
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Some of my most memorable adventures occurred on side trips. These are oppportunities should not be missed.
TTFN
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Learning to manage your manager is an important skill.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
I have found that the best way to get what you want is for management to want you to do it for their own reasons and most conferences are organised with just that in mind.
Take a look at the timings.
The trick is to look like you don't want to be there a moment longer than necessary and by making a few delays which take you into the "late booking" zone when regular airfares look enormous compared to the "weekend stopovers". His big concern then is if you want to have time off in lieu for the "weekend away on business".
Saying "Gee, can I stay an extra day and take it out of my holiday" is asking for trouble and costs; they'll have an FBI forensic finance team examine your expenses.
I have spent many memorable weekends in St Petersburg, Moscow, Houston (yes, Houston, it ain't home) Copenhagen, Talin etc etc. simply because of the Hotel deals that consider a Friday as part of the weekend and you get the whole week for a much lower rate.
Staying into the weekend can "save the company enough money" that they'll pay for anything within reason including entry tickets to the Space Centre, guided tours of the Aurora, a visit to Pravda's offices or Mickey's place... this is where time-off-in-lieu queries come in handy (you'll get the "it goes with the territory" speech, but it keeps them honest).
The downside is occassionaly having to go somewhere you'd rather not for longer than you want.
Some general rules:
If attending a conference in a ski resort either don't go yourself or do take the wife, whatever it costs you (travel... hotels usually have double occupancy for the same price).
One guy I know told his wife she couldn't come and he wasn't going skiing because he had too much to do.
She wasn't happy.
Day two and he got bored, went skiing and broke a leg. He had to leave the car, fly back and she wouldn't meet him at the airport. When he got home, the locks were changed.
Take care how you inform the wife if you get delayed. I was glad to have a large continent and a big ocean between myself and the significant other when I rang to explain a travel delay. One colleague e-mailed his wife from the airport... safe, but we never heard the delayed reaction outcome.
My other colleague finally phoned his wife from reception at the hotel in Minneapolis St Paul, where we finally arrived at 11:30pm.
Unfortunately just as he was explaining that we had been delayed by weather, a hen party let out from the bar ... she could hear the "loud girly squeals" over the phone and we could all hear the click as she hung up on him.
Always make sure your boss knows/remembers who is doing who a favour. Learn to act unhappy about not being at home with the wife over the weekend (to her and to your boss, but don't overdo it, the boss might cancel and the wife might want to come).
Before feeling too guilty, take a look at how many of the management manage to get to some fancy confernces with their wives or take business trips to exotic places and delegate the armpit trips to subordinates.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Being a resident of a tourism heavy state and having one city in particular with major theme parks, you can see why their convention center is also one of the largest in the country.
As long as your employer is aware and you are footing the bill for the extras, there should be no other consideration necessary. In my opinion it has no ethical implication. The act of allowing the extra day or so on such a trip is often considered by employers as being a little extra compensation for being away from home and is a good morale booster.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
He cancelled my vacation to send me to Europe for a meeting. In exchange, he paid for my wife to stay with me in Holland. When the meeting was over, the wife and I hopped the train to Paris for 4 days.
The train and Paris were on me. The flights, Holland, and time at DeGaulle waiting for flight were on him.
It was a nice trade-off.
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RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Is somebody trying to tell me something?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
How come engineers don't get conferences in Vail DURING ski season?
TTFN
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
David
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
My point is that my wife, the doctor, gets conference announcements for Vail, DURING ski season, and the conference sessions are timed to allow people to ski in the afternoon, or some such.
TTFN
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
No nice conferences? I would have thought you might go to Traverse City for the biennial golf tournament that mascarades as the NVH convference.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
You're always welcome in Sunny Florida....next time you get invited to Detroit, tell them Orlando has to be included.
Ron
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
Why? What normal person wouldn't want a day off in Nice City? It's on your time, you're covering the cost of the hotel & meals, and if you're on a vacation day, the company shouldn't be liable insurancewise.
Especially since it was your manager who sent you to Nice City to begin with; no one can possibly accuse you of going to the conference just to get your vacation travel expenses paid.
Hg
p.s. I must be looking at different airfares than the rest of the world, because I haven't seen different prices for a Saturday night stay in years, let alone a difference big enough to make up for an extra day of hotel. Maybe that's mostly for Business Class?
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
And while you're at it, out of curiosity, just ask your VP where his board meetings are held. You'd be surprised.
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference
use any of the online "cheap flights" seaech engines that do a "(+/-) "x" days" search and look at the varition in fares....
Note that it is sometimes cheaper to fly overseas than internally.
One guy found that by booking a connecting flight that stopped at his home town and just not completing the follow on leg he got his tickets cheaper than booking a flight to his home town.
Airlines have some very imaginative (incomprehensible) pricing policies - exploit them.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Take a day off after attending a conference