×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Must have tools for circuit testing bench
11

Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
Hello Folks

ponder I am curious and would like to see a short and simple list,( I will research the options) or ask questions regarding preference if necessary.

Basically, What are your favorite and or must have tools on your work bench? Just in case it is inappropriate to mention name brands  (I don't want to advertise or offend anyone) we can refrain from this, Those in the field know what is quality licklips. Although Minimums and maximum requirements are good.

Your input is appreciated

Thanks, vikingChuck

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Here's a quick list

- A variable power supply ($$$ but oh so handy)

- A decent soldering iron (variable temperature ($100), or one with tips that set the temperature) with solder, flux (and maybe remover), solder wick.  

- A multimeter - high end ones are very nice ($200-$400), low end ones are okay for hobby; check your local electronics or radio store ($30-$90).  

- Hand tools - Small and large cutters, small and large pliers, tweezers, x-acto knife

and if you start working on surface mount electronics

- A magnifying glass (watch out for the cheap ones, they either have weak hardware or poor quality glass)

- A small vice, and 'magic fingers'

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

- A large hammer.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

- and a small one!  

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

One of these!!

I use it more than anything else period!

The fully isolated channels make it a dream to use.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

A hammer with isolated channels?

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

No Scotty,

Smoked was talking about one of these:

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Depends on whether you are doing this as a hobby or professionally.  It also depends on what you want to do.  Audio design has different needs to microcontroller design.

If you are just starting out or on a budget then building your own test equipment such as power supply and signal generator can be good experience.

Zappedagain has a good list.

My nice to have list would be;

Variable dual power supply with current limiting and digital meters monitoring voltage and current.

Signal generator with sine and squarewave plus TTL output.

Digital multimeter (Cat II or better) 2 or more of these.

Oscilloscope (4 channel 100MHz+ DSO if you have the money)

Soldering Iron.

PC with multiple serial and USB ports.

Various hand tools.

Leads.

Anti-static mat.

Safety glasses.

Assorted general components.

A good work area at the right height and with good lighting with lots of power outlets.  Ideally with a shelf to place your test equipment on.

regards
Pete


RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Depending on what you're doing (power supplies or audio power amplifiers, for example), a hefty variable transformer.  Mine is mounted on an old one gallon paint can.  Outlet on the side, handy handle.

And it's hard to have too many digital multimeters.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Current probe - one of the LEM or Chauvin Arnoux ones if you aren't wealthy, one of the Tektronix AM503B's if you have money to burn.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

A 100W LIGHT BULB!

A friend of mine who went to work for LAMP DIVISION cringes when I call them a bulb, he says they are lamps.

Anyway, back in the 60's EICO had an add that said all you needed to test thier amplifier kit was a lamp.   And I have been using this piece of equipment ever since. An AC cord with a lamp in series with the test socket.   Saved me many times after workin long hours and slipping with a probe and a lot of fuses.  A lamp has a resistance about 10 times higher when hot than cold.  This lets many devices operate normally, but when a short or high current condition occurs limit current to a safe level.  You can operate shorted equipment and diagnose the problem.  Also works for the wiggle test and phasing transformers. I use it at least a couple times a week which is far more than a lot of my other test equipment.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

2
Opera, also known by some in this part of the world as light globes.

The thread definitely says tools, and NOT test instruments.  They are somewhat different.

I am thinking of soldering iron, large range of screwdrivers, range of pliers and cutters, small spanners, alan keys, steel ruler tweezers, a stamp loupe, needle files, nutdrivers, medical forceps, medical scalpel, anti static wrist strap, and a steel toolbox with a lock to put it all into.

Larger stuff, bench vise, illuminated magnifier, set of drills, set of files, hacksaw, HAMMER, vacuum desoldering equipment, tinsnips, hot air gun, hot melt glue gun, very high wattage monster soldering iron, a source of compressed air can be handy.       

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Don't forget Twinkies or Ho-Hos... a must-have tool for those late night debugging sessions!

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

And those pink zoo animal cookies!!! We actually got them a corporate part number!

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)

zappedagain - one vote for variable power supply your not kidding I have been looking the good ones are not cheap!, small vice and magic fingers...since they are losing the magic and I have run out of ferry dust I use those locking surgeons pliers (forceps?) very handy! A magnifying glass
for sure nice list good advice.sunshine

ve1bll - Copy that, we call it a BFH! enough said there.

Keith - Although you had a little trouble finding it, That is one special piece of equipment, Sort of reminds me of the This Old House show every week Norm would come up with some shiny new tool, when it comes to electronics He has nothing on you...I'll be using my old scope for a while.

skogsgurra - Your work bench has an echo!

Turboxs - Currently I am a Machine tech often times a control card or circuit board goes bad, many just purchase a new board I have repaired a few and saved money I would like to do more of this.
Two votes for variable power supply, PC for sure, anti static mat and safety glasses really good advice.

jimkirk - Oh yes I have four multimeters...never could explain why I need four to the wife ("Honey some things your better off not knowing")love but I have a good reason honest!

scottyUK - Will look into current probe.

OperaHouse -medal Super trick of the Trade very resourceful.

Warpspeed - Although my perspective of tool meant test equipment also, You for sure get an A+ for detail you are correct! Vacuum desoldering tool I use the bulb type only if I must otherwise hook a shop vac to a small tube, compressed air...Nice Idea! thumbsup

macgyvers2000 - I need to stay away from those...I don't like to exercise.cow

Keith - elephant2 pink zoo animal cookies with a corporate part number?!?!?!
Do they allow alcohol at your company functions? I'm jealous.cheers

Thanks All for your replies, Chuck

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

A power vacuum desoldering tool is absolutely fantastic to use. The commercial units are unreasonably expensive, so I made my own.

I was fortunate enough to salvage a fairly powerful 240v ac diaphragm pump out of a piece of discarded medical equipment. I then hooked it up to a foot operated switch and purchased the proper commercial (de)soldering iron with the hollow tip and built in filter.

I have seen very similar looking 12v dc diaphragm pumps at the automotive parts stores. These are supposed to be able to inflate tyres amongst other things. It could possibly make the basis of a homemade desoldering station for a fraction of the cost of a genuine bought one.

To be effective, massive suction is required to "blast" the solder out from around component leads, so the bigger and more powerful the vacuum pump the more effective it will be to use. It will not block so readily either. My pump is about the size of a loaf of bread,

    It really sucks !!!

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Hey hey!! My scope is not a left handed biscuit cutter!  It is just a battery power-able digital with reasonable speed. (and an obscene price) But if it broke tomorrow I would sell my car and get another one!

Variable power supply with good value?
These guys!
They were the first to do it right.  Really amazing after others were in that market for eons before them.

http://www.bkprecision.com/www/np_searchmodel7.asp?lf=Single+Output+DC+Power+Supplies

They figured out they could make higher power supplies cheap by a nifty trick.  They multi-tap the transformer about 10 times.  As you turn up the voltage the transformer ocassionally tapswitches.  This lets them use much smaller regulators and small heat sinks because the regulators don't have to dump a ton of waste energy.  Slick.

As for a solder sucka.  I commend you Warp.  You will be one of those people surviving in a cave after the astroid hits.
Me? I use one of these. It is the best of any I have ever used and I have used a bunch of them.  One's run by compressed air, motors, manual, etc.

http://www.hakkousa.com/products.asp?PID=808&Page=1


Cookies:
http://www.fhsu.edu/biology/Eberle/AnimalCookies.html

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

If you afford them, some of the nicest soldering / desoldering tools are made by Pace.

http://www.paceworldwide.com/productHome.asp

Something else which can be invaluable is an analogue multimeter. If you are looking for a trend or watching a slow signal, the constant range shifting of the digital ones can be a pain in the rear.

On a safety note, if you are playing with mains powered equipment, either use an isolation transformer or use an RCD (I think the US knows them as GFCI's). The isolation transformer is worthwhile if you're playing with switchmode PSU's which directly rectify the line voltage, or mess around with TV sets. Rectified UK mains is about 340V DC, and some of the active PFC front ends boost it to nearly 400V. More than enough to ruin your day.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Yes machmec, it has an echo - because it is so empty.

It is empty since I am travelling a lot and doing field investigations on drive systems. What I carry with me is this:

A yokogawa OR 300. A combined scope/recorder with four isolated analogue channels. Can take 500 V AC between channels and channel/gnd. 12 bit resolution and 2 us/sample (that is fast enough for drive systems). Eight digital switchable between TTL/24V/contact closure.

An isolation amplifier. 1200 V maximum input. Takes dangerous/high powered signals down to earth.

Fused probes. Good for 1000 V 50 kA.

A PicoScope 3206 USB dual channel scope adapter. Turns my VAIO (1.25 kg and 7 hrs battery) into a 200 MHz scope. Love that combination!

The VAIO lightweight computer.

One or two current clamps with mains adapters (running out of battery just before an important event takes place is not allowed here). I usually have one 1000 A DC clamp and a Tek 80i-110. The latter is semi-fast (tr around 4 us) and gives me 100 mV/A - which is good to have in some cases.

A camera.

Adapters and insulation-piercing probes. The Hirschmann KLEPS 2700 is something you should have a look at if you do not already use them.

For very demanding work, I bring a LeCroy 324 (now I need to carry two pieces of luggage). But it is amazing how often you get results with the light-weight devices. They make you very flexible and you can go places without worring about damage in luggage handling and losing your instruments in transit. I can pack it all - including toothbrush, an extra shirt and underwear - in a cabin bag.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Read LeCroy 424. I don't think 324 exists...

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Skogs:
That PicoScope 3206 looks like a very nice tool.  pretty nice price too. If you add a $1,400 laptop it still comes in under my Tektronix.  (Okay I'd maybe sell my car and buy a 3206 since I have 3 laptops now) Wait I'd still need isolation, and now it would have to be external!!cry

What do you use for an isolation amplifier??  I've never found a good one.

And your VAIO lasts 7hrs?!?!?  Mine never, ever, ever lasted more than 1.25hrs!!!  And it is a lightweight one (read: small screen, low speed) [That's the one with the dead battery pack I unsuccessfully tried to repair and am now struggling to justify buying a $150 replacement pack for.]

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Hey skogs another question.
How does the Pico work with respect to the mass of data you end up with?  I know that some tools, like my logic analyser, which spews out a ton of data then poses a problem of trying to search through all the logged data to find(or not!) what you are actually interested in.

Does their software work well in this aspect?  Or do you find yourself groaning over the prospect of searching for your events?

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

itsmoked,

I too have a TDS720. Simply the best for field work. Fluke is trying hard with their color LCD handhelds, but, Tek has much better specs.

For the lab bench,
Just got a new 350MHz Tek DPO4034 deep memory scope with CAN demodulation option. It's hard to even consider turing on my old TDS360 with this new scope. Definately the wave of the future.

PICO is nice (re-sell them for automotive app), but last I saw, there's no anti-alaising front end and never did like PC based scopes... so, I'm biased. Also, I'm unsure of the waveform update rates on these things.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

oops... I mean I have a THS720 ... not.. TDS720.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Hi Yashu;

I actually got a bank loan (decades ago) to purchase a Tek 2460 for my fledgling part time business.  It was fabulous to be able to look into the private world of high speed signals. (4 at once).  But once I got my THS I rarely turned on my 2460 anymore because the 2460 was so big I kinda had to take my work to the scope instead of the scope to the work. The THS is like a standard text book you just need to stand on end.  And the isolation brought a safety and freedom totally unavailable in the 2460.

Anyone want a 2460?roll1

Wow Yashu;  $8,000 for a scope.  I have looked at Tek scopes less and less as they become less and less competitive.  I look at a nice scope like that 4034 and I start thinking... $850 in parts -> $8k out the door.. Am I being given the shaft?  I surely would like a color scope though.  So often I wish I could expand both traces to cover the screen but can't because of the confusion that will result.

You should really enjoy that bugger.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

itsmoked,

Your x10 markup from parts to product seems reasonable. Lets just say that all the firmware and VHDL for the FPGA's isn't free.

I usually don't promote anybody's product, but, the Tek DPO4000 is quite impressive. No more triggering here and there... and dual timebase delaying with intensified traces.. and hand demodulating SPI/I2C data... and trying to figure out how to zoom in on stuff. It as 10M point per channel. The 350 MHz BW still displays 900 MHz pulse envelopes which is great for hopping transceiver designs.

I didn't think I would like the force super-knob thing on it, but, it works quite well.

We all know instrumentation is a liability, so, I usually  depreciate and pass on the cost to the customer. Don't think I could develop today's competitive consumer products with my old analog Tek scope, so, gotta do what you gotta do.

I hoping this one will last me till retirement... (right).

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
Hi zappedagain - Yup those are magic fingers and a must have, They can easily be moved around on bench.

 shocked Whoa!! yes Keith

You could buy New Yankee work shop for that price....And look what skogsgura whips out of his bag of tricks really Big time awesome Then when you think it safe to go outside along comes Yashu sure is nice to see what the Big Guns use.
If I spend that much it had better be labeled Harley Davidson!

Also some nice products from bk precision, the Hakko 808 looks to be handy and easy to use. Does the tip clog much?

scottyUK - Those are nice work stations from Pace I favor the pen type grips I'm not as steady with a pistol grip.

Chuck

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

The Hakko 808 has probably plugged on me once... Seems to be quite robust and the solder catching vial cleans easily.  Nice unit.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

It killed me when I learned the scopes were heading down the Windows XP road... if I pay that much for a scope, I don't want a 2-bit OS running on it, I want tight hand-coded assembly :)  They rarely die, but when that OS goes balls up (and I've seen it happen), you might as well send the whole thing back in.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Ah, but then you get windows update.

Every few weeks you can download a few more megabytes of patches to fix all the problems.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I'm a Luddite.

I like my antique TEK465A... it doesn't suffer from aliasing unlike the Tek digital scopes I use...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

A TEK465A wow a true functioning antique! poke


Those must be the most produced piece of test equipment ever made.  They must have built 10M of those.   I cut my scope teeth on one.     

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Me too, I have a 100Mhz 465A at home, and still use it for most things.

Digitals are fine, excellent for some things, but they can sometimes be a trap for the unwary.

I believe there is an argument for owning both types of oscilloscope, even if the old analog dinosaur is rarely used.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I'd use the 465 before using the Tek TDS2002 for a lot of things.

I especially dislike the way that the digital scope can mislead you about the timebase setting sometimes.

Twiddle the timebase knob & get what appears to be a correct sinewave, except the frequency is out by a factor of a 1000 or so... realise this & twiddle the knob again to get the correct reading... not a problem with the 465, it's obvious that a 1MHz signal won't synch up at 20ms/div.


As I said, I'm a Luddite.

Had a good one the other day when a student was trying to measure low level noise coming out of a filter; it was all imaginary, generated by the input cct of the scope, proved by using a cheapo hitachi analogue scope.

Progress they call it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I have never had any problems like that with my THS720, nada! None!  (That I noticed..)

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I imagine variable cutoff analog -or- switched cap antialias filters on the front end of scopes may become commonplace soon.... then, we can chalk it up as progress.

Until then, I usually go out to the fastest timebase and walk things back to determine what I'm looking at.

Both HP and Tek are trying to generate that classic subtle analog intensity display digitally... and, personally I think they're doing a good job.. so much as I finally gave away my 1st scope... TEK2235.

Plus, the waveform update rates are becoming quite impressive. I'll wager on analog scopes going obsolete soon (along with Fax machines).

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Isn't sampling, Nyquist and aliasing taught in schools any more?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

No Gunnar, that is old stuff.

All you need now is a couple of years experience of using software, and you will know absolutely everything there is to know about electronics.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Yes. That is true. And you do not even need to measure nowadays. You just simulate. No hardware. Nothing to burn. No lethal voltages. No arcs. No problems - until you meet the dreaded Real World.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

These days, 2-4 years of experience gets you classified as a senior design engineer. I think I've spent more time in the bathroom.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Ha-ha-ha...........

The number of times I have seen baffled looks, and then the immortal words:   "well, it worked o/k on Spice".

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I was trying to simulate a two transistor multivibrator the other day.

Couldn't get the damn thing to run on the 'puter.

So I built it instead.

Student was quite impressed.

5 mins breadboarding against 30 mins cursing the computer.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I have used simulation software several times.. Talk about aliasing! I couldn't get expected  results from hardly any of my non complex circuits.   Back to the napkin for me.  I laugh whenever RAF (The famous National analog designer) starts talking about simulation since he too holds it in pretty low esteem.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Keith, I assume you're talking about RAP (not RAF)... Robert A. Pease.  His Pease Porridge articles in Electronic Design News (EDN) are great.  I sent him an email asking for advice on testing a circuit a few years back.  Boy was I surprised when he actually answered me within 24-48 hours!  I can't imagine how terribly busy this guy must be, but he took the time to give a well-thought answer to some no-name off of the street.  He gets extremely high marks in my book.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

The discussion about analog versus digital scopes reminded me that I still like my old analog multimeter, even though I mostly use DMMs now.  Sometimes I need to look for a very occasional disturbance on a line or a noisy pot, and there's nothing like seeing the old needle twitch.  

Does D'Arsonval and VTVM still mean anything?  How about a Grid Dip Meter?

Another very useful thing is my collection of jeweler type screwdrivers.  Miniature slot head, Phillips, Torx, Allen, et cetera, all in several sizes.

Has anyone mentioned the Dremel(tm) or similar tool?  Great for tweaking small mechanical things.

Jim

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Yes Dan,

He (RAP) is an enormously productive guy. We have been discussing a few topics and I keep some of his letters (his hand-writing is even worse than mine!) in my safe. They will no doubt be collector's items within short.

RAP once said that computers can be used as rather impractical book supports. That's all he could use them for. But he has changed. There are things that can be simulated - but you have to be careful and know what you expect beforehand.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Jim,

I have a pair of AVO 8's which were old before I was born. Real early ones with the 2.5kV AC and 2.5kV DC ranges in addition to the lower ones. Beautifully built old things with a phenolic case. I think the basic movement is 50uA, with a long needle and mirrored scale.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I have an AVO 9 Mk 2 in my collection here, built like a brick. It is still accurate, and sometimes even useful.

Robert Pease is a genius, and apparently a bit of a character too, although I have never met him.  I believe he was the brains behind most of the special application analog ICs originally produced by National Semiconductor.

He has also published at least one book. Quite a guy, and someone that definitely deserves respect.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I said RAF????! hammer Oh well.  Yes I meant RAP.  The spel checer koudant hellp me.

I have one of his books on troubleshooting.  I watch all his tech web-casts.  He often cuts thru the clutter with some clear thinking.

I think he does design a lot of their stuff.

I once showed up at National with a question about a specific chip.  He showed up and talked to me in the lobby.  I have also run into him at a booth in a trade show.

He goes on some amazing 'walks' I guess.  Doing Hymalayan treks and such.

I have used grid dips a few times.. Very clever device really.

I use a Dremel tool quite often.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I was disappointed to note that the 2.5/3.0kV ranges are deleted from the current version of the AVO 8... very useful.

I've also got a couple of AVO 7s, at 1k/Volt they're now only good for automotive type stuff...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

AVO were most popular state of the art meters at one time, and for very good reasons.

Fluke seem to have filled that spot today.

A student engineer today, seeing an original AVO for the first time, would likely roll around on the carpet laughing.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

The ignorance of youth...

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I remember getting a nice scientific calculator.  I just knew it would be invaluable when I got my first job.  Ended up only using it for my expense account!  I say, never take a good meter where a cheap meter will do.  When Harbor Freight has a sale, I pick up a half dozen of their $2.99 DVMs.  Sounds wasteful, but I use them till the battery dies and then include them for free in one of my ebay auctions.  I feel a lot better when I drop a $3 meter from 20 feet or measure 440 in ohms.  I'm getting old and goofy.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I expected the same from my calculator... I've yet to use it in a job.  After college was over, it became a boat anchor.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Jesh I use my calculator ALL the time!! Probably at least once a day.  HP32.  I curse constantly while using that abysmal piece of garbage included in Windoz.  I marvel at how an important Windoz desktop calculator could be so utterly lame, ineffective, non-flexible, error prone, limited, and confusing.  

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
Hi Keith

I wondered if the calculator would be mentioned here.
Why the hp32? anything in particular you prefer about this model other than it's cost is enough to excite Allen Greenspan. Does more decimal places in cost get you more to work with calculating micro amps for example?  http://www.calculatorsource.com/hp-32siib.html

What features do you recommend looking for when purchasing a bare minimum unit.

Chuck

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I'm still using my HP15 that I picked up in 1984.  I only replaced the first set of batteries a couple of years ago.  Good stuff...  It is almost an antique!  

I still have my dip meter that I built in about 1990.  Maybe I got one of the last ones from Heathkit before they went under.  I pulled it out of the box for some EMC testing about a year ago and it still works fine.  

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Hey zappedagain.......

I've still use my HP15C but I've been through a lot of batteries since I bought mine in 1984!

The HP15C is now collectable so I hope you kept the case and the box and the manual.

Check out these web sites.

http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp15.htm

http://hp15c.org/

There are even HP15C emulators.

(Showing our age)
Pete

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

machmech;  The 32S is ummmm, sublime to use.  It is very fast to use.  It's logical and is fast for switching back and forth between hex and decimal which is good for embedded design and software work. And it is RPN!!  Once you figure out RPN you never want to go back to arithmetic calculators.

 I got mine in the 80's for $90 bucks.  I then gave it to my son for his school work.  I purchased HP's latest, which a few years ago was the HP48G. I truly hate the 48.  It is the most cryptic illogical calculator I have ever seen.  It took me several days on forums to figure out how to even convert a number between hex and decimal. To save a value in memory takes so many steps I can't remember them.  I still use it but I don't like it.  I finally decided I wanted another HP32.  I got one on EBay $100, only to realize it was a 32 of a lessor species maybe not a IIS. I traded my son for the IIS and am again a happy camper.

Short history of the calculator:
Hp came out very early with their RPN offerings.  They were functionally better than anything else out there.  They felt better, the buttons were better and they were always intuitive, always a cut above. I got an HP64 in college that  used magnetic cards to store large programs. It was awesome. I could write programs to figure out transmission line problems and other complex solutions.  I'd run those mag cards thru it before a test and get some nasty glances out of my class mates.  Eventually some numskull at HP decided
that making the finest calculators in the world was a pointless endeavour. (cripes)  HP divested itself of calculators sold the line to some NZ or Ozzy group of people including the HP people.  They tried to continue the line with no resources.  They brought us the HP48g and then a newer versions whose buttons were so bad the calculator was a disaster.   They abandoned hot stamped buttons for painted ones that promptly wore off.  Last I heard they suspended all further development and were sinking into oblivion.

  I just looked and see that HP carries HP calculators now! They have a couple (3?) calculators that look like the typical Casio fair.  Only one is RPN. Very sad that no one at HP could look ahead and recognize the need or market for high end calculators and just stick with the originals.  Why they took something generally considered perfect and kept trying to improve it is a testament to modern corporate dysfunction.  Akin to trying to continually improve the desk ruler.

Well that was probably more than you were looking for but as you can see it holds a deep emotional spot in my heart.  If my HP32IIs choked I wouldn't hesitate to drop $300 to acquire a replacement.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Does anyone know if the circuit drawings for the old Heathkit designs are still around? I have an old linear power supply which provided pretty good performance. From memory it was 50V / 1.5A and had about 10 switchable ranges of about 5V per step with a fine adjustment within each range. Some of the semiconductors have passed away, and the chassis wiring is awkward to bell out to make my own drawing, although that is a last resort. It has a degree of sentimental value too, so I don't want to throw it out.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

My main bench-top logic supply is a Heathkit. 5V@1.5A and plus and minus 0-20V.  Works great.

I would guess a wad of googling might work.  Someone might be able to help.  How about some AARL forum?

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
Hi Keith

Thank you for a well written response, you obviously have experience in this field and apparently your not alone, I started a search for a comparable model and found a customer review which is very good and does outline and confirm your disappointment in the functions of a next gen model.

http://www.calculator.com/shop/item.php?m=electronics&s=scientific&ASIN=B0000DK6G9

I have a friend who is a retired Engineer from Zenith and he still holds his calculator near and dear although he no longer gets compensation for his work he loves it when I ask for help and will hash out a  problem and explain things to me in detail. I believe math was his favorite part of the job.

Thanks, Chuck

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Scotty,  Most of the HEATH KIT line in available at www.bama.sbc.edu in deja whatsit format for FREE (they have a free rader). The scans I have seen are quite nice, even color for the cover!

I have an old HP desk top calculator with a CRT.  It is so slow that they have a solenoid to lock the keyboard till the calculation is done.  Memory is a delay line made from a long cable.  Still works, but the scren is a little wavey from the old caps.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Operahouse,

Thanks for the tipoff - I'll have a look.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Link should be http://bama.sbc.edu

What a useful site!

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

A site you might add to that is www.d8apro.com/heath3.htm which is a cross reference of HEATH semiconductor part numbers.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Operahouse!

That old HP wouldn't be an HP 9100A, would it?

I have a very special feeling for that one. I am prepared to swap my HP 35, the first HP pocket calculator. Still working...

Tell me! Tell me! Tell me!

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Opera,

I've got my manual for my PS - it's an old IP-27. You've made me very happy today. Thankyou.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

That IP-27 is a pretty nutty circuit.  Current limiter is one big PNP germanium seperate from the voltage regulator.  I have one I want to sell on ebay (they still bring $50-70). I got mine working over a year ago, but I find the cover!   The HP is in storage, I'll have to dig it out.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Yeah, I've just been looking at it. I now realise why I made little headway trying to sketch the circuit by tracing the chassis wiring: what a peculiar circuit design. I didn't know 15A germanium transistors existed! I think if D7 is replaced by a series pair of silicon diodes and with some judicious changes to the sense resistors it should be possible to use an MJ2955 or similar silicon transistor. The electrolytics all need replacing too.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

When I started work the physics department of a british university had ONE calculator. That was a RPN HP and was so valuable it was fixed to a bench with a big steel cable

Today my toaster has more computing power

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

When I was in college a friend of mine had an HP45 calculator that was being borrowed a lot.  He took it apart and swapped the "sin" and "cos" chicklet key tops.  Borrowing fell off dramatically.  Another lesson in knowing roughly what to expect in a calculation, and recognizing when an answer doesn't make any sense.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Hi all-

I'm surprised that you haven't inlcuded jumper wires as part
of the "must haves".  Even the cheap Radio Shack with
alligator clips are always a keep around.  For me, a 1 gallon
zip lock baggie with my collection.  Keeps them all easily
transportable.

The thread has been to power supplies. One of the most common
power supplies that I reach for was an oldie I built in
college, 5V 1A 'er, with a 7805 (a TO3 can with a copper base!)
The old beastie is just right for prototyping.  It's in a
2X2X4 bud box.  Variables done with the 3 terminal regulators
in a duplex electrical box (aluminum boxes are getting
expensive these days!

Wall worts can be a good friend as well.  We have a local
surplus electronics store where there is a whole isle full
of them.  Wander down and for a $1 or 2, you can find either
one that you can use directly or again, a 3 terminal
regulator.  I find that I'll put a series switch in there
as I don't like to plug and unplug.  A little bare board
with 3 way binding posts.  Sometimes with an LED for
power (usually not).  If not blessed with an electronics
store, try Good Will or Salvation Army.  Usually the
voltage is right on the wort.  Very handy to have around.
And a lot less sheet metal work!

I find that test equipment for me is usually done on an
as needed basis.  However, if I'm tired of working on what
is in front of me, I'll tackle a little side project.

Wacking out a little power supply or the like, for a couple
of hours when there's nothing on TV can be satisfying.

DMM's-  Cheapies.  Usually no more than $7.00.  Harbor
Freight now sells cheap ones for $2.99.  Shoot, for that
price, you can buy them by the dozen!  The make vs. buy is
pretty clear cut on that one.  Just remember to turn them
off when finished so you don't run down the batteries.

Logic probe- Here again, the make vs. buy. I built my
first logic probe, but the packaging wasn't as good as the
cheap bought ones.  So, that was a $17.00 investment.  If
you have electronic flea markets around, you might wander
across a old HP logic probe.  Very nice, but watch out for
the sharp tip!

Function generator- Here was a make vs. buy that went to
make.  An XR2206 3 wave chip with the app note does a fine
job for me for low frequency function gen.  An emitter
follower for the square wave output to directly drive TTL
logic was needed, but other than that, it's been a usefull
tool.  I built it in a 4 way electrical duplex box with
a plastic front cover.  Here again, it was a nice diversion
from the task at hand.

Tek 375B scope.- Took a chance on eBay and bought one for
under $400.00.  This was the same type as I cut my teeth on
many years ago after college and still a favorite of mine.
Got real lucky and the "cal'ed" was indeed done on it.

Frequency counter- This was a make.  Did it as an exercise
for PIC development.  Still need to do a decent analog front
end.  Prescaled to 100MHz, 8 LARGE LED display (my eyes
are getting old).  And still have to put it in a case.  I
don't use it all that much, so with a wall wort power supply, and a couple of wires,
the bare board hangs out there
on the bench........  There are several designs out there
on the internet that can be used if you want to go this
route.

Good soldering station-  I've used Weller all my life at
work,
however, nowadays there are some reasonable Chinese ones out
there on the market.  I took a change and got a temp.
regulated one recently and was quite pleased with the results!
Not bad and 1/3 the cost of the Wellers.  Bought many spare
tips as these might be a problem replacing in the future.
My old Weller (made up of broken parts of other ones that
were piece replaced at work) now sits collecting dust.

Logic analyzer- Here was the second major investment in test
equipment for me.  Recently looked at the problem. Usually
clients have one that I can use.  Last client gave me a brand
spanking new Agilent scope/16 channel analyzer.  Runs a
built in PC with XP.  First time I had a scope that I had
to worry about malware!  Left the LAN connection unplugged.
But, if it's coming out of *MY* pocketbook......

I do a lot of embedded processor work.  Logic analyzer is
REAL nice to have.  But, I'm not spending +$5K!  Did a
little research and my choice was an Intronix, USB link
one. YMMV, but it's nice to have it conneted to an old
laptop on the bench. $400.00 works as advertised. Real
pleased with it and it has justified it's expense many times
over.

One or more (usually more) old PC's kicking around. Usually
running a dual boot linux/windows.  Usefull for logging
data from rs232 inputs, complex waveform generators, etc.
USB interface for logic analyzer, programmers, etc. 300-500MHz
machines are fine with linux.

Itsmoked did it to me! O.K. I'm going to
replace my old Heathkit (Griefkit) Grid Dip Oscillator with
a home built gate dip one!  There we go!  A little PIC
microcontroller for an LCD frequency display, battery
operation.  Cool!  The summer reruns are coming on the tube
pretty soon. Should provide hours of fun.

Luddites unite!

  Cheers,

   Rich S.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
Thank you rich

Awesome list with some interesting tech tips to boot!
About that last paragraph LOL That Keith dude is a bad influence. wink

Chuck

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

But you guys have failed to mention the one "must have" for doing any kind of electronics work:

A COFFEE MUG

No electronics workbench is ever complete without one.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Warpspeed, I've been tempted to spec a coffee mug holder on some equipment we've ordered!

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
Ceramic is a good insulator!

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Well I happen to hate coffee....lookaround

Please pass the animal cookies!

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Hates coffee, and bites the heads off animal cookies, hmmm, sounds like an interesting case.

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I am not sure if I shall reveal this. You see, smoked is a nice guy and I feel like stabbing his back - but, he doesn't drink beer either...

Does that make the picture any clearer?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Gasp !!   Shock horror !!!

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Heheheheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Hey, I help a buddy make beer.  Very interesting.

They roast coffee around here which just frikken reeks!!
It smells like horribly incinerated toast if you've never smelled it.
 
I love the smell of fresh brewed coffee.

I sure love milk!
And chocolate.
And Ice Cream...

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)


                                   shocked

Kieth could this be true?!!! How does one get by without the Nectar of the God's? Surely skogs is mistaken.

Chuck cheers

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

As my late uncle's(liquor manufacturer/distributor) business card read (referring to beer):

"If you don't like our beer tell us! And we'll run it through the horse again."


That must be why it tastes like it does.lol

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Tell'em Keith. Do you like beer?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
lookaround
pssst!....Hey skogs....you don't suppose Keith is one of those....well..uhm...you know.....girly men??gorgeous

shhh Don't tell Keith I asked!

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I picture Keith as being more the Arnold Schwarzenegger type. Those animal cookies don't stand a chane.

Dare to be different................

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

2
I've found getting some enclosures open requires the funny shaped "security" drivers.

So my favorite tool is Harbor Freights' 100 piece security bit set, that includes 100, 1/4" hex drive security bits, only 8 of which are duplicates (4 extra #2 phillips, 4 extra #2 pozidrives) all in a plastic case for $15 regular, $10 on sale.

The only bit it doesn't have, to my knowledge, is the tiny T6 torx size used on cellular phones (my kids bought colored faceplates which require the removal of a tiny torx on Nokias)

Set includes bits:
SAE hex allen (1/16 - 1/4)
SAE hex allen security (5/64 - 5/32)
metric hex allen (1.5-8mm, no 7mm)
metric hex allen security (2 - 6mm)
torx (T8-T45)
security torx (with the bore in the center) (T8-T40)
straight blade screwdriver (metric designations from 3-8mm)
spline drive (M5-M8)
clutch drive (1, 2, 3)
tapered square drive (0 - 3)
3 tine phillips* (1-4)
4 tine offset phillips* (6, 8,10)
2 pin spanner (4, 6, 8, 10)
phillips (0-3)
pozidrive (0-30)
adapters:
male 1/4" hex x magnetic female 1/4" hex
1/4" male hex (fits screwdriver) to 1/4" square male socket drive adapter, one short, one long
Y thingie with 1/4" hex male (don't know what it is)

Highly recommended because all the bits are in one place - the red plastic box.

You can find the set on www.harborfreight.com.  Search for part number 91310.   And you can buy another half dozen yellow DVMs at the same time.  Like OperaHouse, I've been known drop 'em or to probe 220V on the ohms setting, too.)

Dan

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

(OP)
Hello Dan

That looks like a really nice set, I have three sets which are equal to this one and paid a lot more money for them.
Thanks for a great tip!

As far as dmm's if I measure anything over 24 v I like to use a cat3 meter I prefer Fluke. Safety is included w/meter.
The low buck meters are nice if you need to monitor many operations of a board at once I suppose.

Chuck

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

I've gotta put this one out here, even though it isn't a tool from a circuit test bench - it's my field service bench - the bench itself.

I do a lot of work in-plant on control panels where there isn't any place to work.   So my favorite field service tool is the bench itself.   

I need a place to setup and work on a PC so I'm not squatting on the floor or holding the PC while working.  Carts are too awkward to carry in a sedan, and trying to scrounge up a cart in someone else's plant for more than a temporary, couple minute hauling of stuff is a toughie.

So I found a portable, folding plastic resin table (or bench, if you will) that's light weight with a top that's 20"x30".   I fastened a drawer pull handle on the side at the balance point so it carries easily in one hand.   It's maximum height is only 28", a tad too low for a 6'3" guy, but otherwise ideal.

People do ask me if I'll iron their shirts for them when I'm done, because the folding legs make it look just like your Mom's ironing board.

With my portable bench and my folding chair and I'm ready to stare at the logic on the PC screen all day long.



Dan

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Dan  For a boring table.. that is pretty cool!  I imagine you couldn't live without it after using it a few times.

Might I suggest you bolt two wheels and two casters on it so you can just drag it, luggage style, thru the plant AND it will raise it a few inches.

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

That table. Greatest tip so far. Have the same problem. Nowhere to put the drawings. Nowhere to put your scope. Nowhere to put your coffee-mug. Nowhere to put those little smart devices that make you and your services so special, Have to make something like that - but it should be less of an ironing board and more of a lab bench. Looks are important. And, yes, Keith - wheels. And a little railing around the table-top so things don't fall off it.

Great tip anyhow. Wish I could give you a PBS (Pink Big Star) but there are only PLS:es available.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

skogs; I would get the biggest dang ironing board I could find and then hack it. Yes a fiddle around the back would be a good addition!

Keith Cress
Flamin Systems, Inc.- http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

Even better; turn the table-top into a flat box where you can keep your things. No need to pack/unpack. I can't wait to get home and just do it. An ironing board is probably a good starting point. Make it more square and add a pair of wheels - plus a handle. Who will be selling this?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

FYI

The graphic of the table above is one of a table I bought - a commercially available plastic resin top table.

I bought it Menards - a building supply chain the midwest USA (IL, WI).   

I'm sure they are available elsewhere.   The folding table market seems to be moving away from pressed wood fiber tops to plastic resin tops, the advantage being much lighter weight and reduced shipping costs.  

It just occurred to me that even office supply houses probably have this same resin top table, because office supply houses have been primary sources for folding tables.

Dan

RE: Must have tools for circuit testing bench

My 2nd favorite tool on bench - Power strip Liberators

You know how all those plug-in-the-wall AC adapters cover over the adjacent outlet on a power strip, limiting how many things you can plug into a power strip?

The Power Strip liberators are very short extension cords that plug into the power strip and leave the adjacent outlets exposed.   The model I buy has an outlet on the plug itself, so that I replicate the outlet on the power strip and can still plug in an adapter, or whatever.

There are a couple other styles, flat ones, those without the outlet on the plug.   Available from cyberguys.com for a couple bucks each.

Dan

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources