what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
(OP)
hi, let me introduce myself.
i'm an electrical engineer in france.i've begune since october 2003.
since then, i've worked with German, English, American engineers.
but i was not very at ease with my english when i spoke with them. nevertheless, we managed to understand each other.
i know i'm not very good in english but i try to make my very best...
so, i'd like to know about your experience with non English engineers. What kind of mistakes did they make, ....
thank you.
i'm an electrical engineer in france.i've begune since october 2003.
since then, i've worked with German, English, American engineers.
but i was not very at ease with my english when i spoke with them. nevertheless, we managed to understand each other.
i know i'm not very good in english but i try to make my very best...
so, i'd like to know about your experience with non English engineers. What kind of mistakes did they make, ....
thank you.





RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Or I could try this:
Start Grammar Check
Hello, allow me to introduce myself.
I'm an electrical engineer in France and have been working since October 2003.
Since I began, I have worked with German, English, and American engineers.
However, I was not very comfortable with my English when I spoke to them. Nevertheless we managed to understand each other.
I know I'm not very good at speaking English but I try do to my best.
In closing, I'd like to know about your experiences with non-English engineers. What kind of mistakes do they make?
Thank you.
End Grammar Check
As you say, your language is quite understandable (overall great spelling too!), it just lacks the polish you'd get from 12+ years of English classes.
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks Pro 06/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
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RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
thanks a lot for your advice.
i laught a lot when i read your message, but you are right and you are a good advicer.
according to you, what can i do to improve my english?
ctopher,
thanks for answerint my question.
do you think that the fact to understand american society would improve my english? i've never been in the USA, but i think i know a little bit about the american society.
i watched many american movies, listened to many american singers,...
thanks a lot to everyone...
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Don't rely on movies, most are exaggerated.
Also, improving your grammar would be very beneficial for you.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks Pro 06/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
C'est comme moi parlent Francais. Pas tellment bien, mais j'espere que tu (oui, pas Vous) peut le comprendre. C'est pas tout a fait vrai que un sejour aux Etats Unies te transforme en "un artiste d'Anglais". Je visite la France beaucoup - mais je ne parle pas Francais mieux que ca.
So, I think that you get along comparatively well. If you could understand what I was writing above. You also have an ability to decode rather obscure messages.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
It is as me speak French. Not tellment well, but I espere that you (yes, not You) can include/understand it. It is not completely true that a stay in the States Unies transform you into "an English artist". I visit France much - but I do not speak French better than Ca.
No, a stay in the USA will not make you an English artist, but it will help.
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks Pro 06/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I never thought that a machine would understand me better than the French. But I think it's time to rethink...
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Il brilgue: les tôves lubricilleux
Se gyrent en vrillant dans le guave.
Enmîmés sont les gougebosqueux
Et le mômerade horsgrave.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Is that your translation or an established one? It's perfect.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
corus
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I was hoping for Jabberwocky to chime in. He probably would have recognised the poem named after him
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Well there is one common mistake. Advice is a noun. It is the thing that is given. To advise is a verb, it is the act of giving advice. The person who gives advice is an adviser.
In my career I have worked with people from many foreign countries. The most common problem is a lack of understanding caused by imprecise and ambiguous use of language, and people interpreting and inferring meaning rather than asking questions.
You have a perfectly clear thought in French. You translate that thought into English - but you carry over some of the differences in sentence structure, and maybe use not quite the correct word. The reader (or listener)knows what he wants, and your sentence is pretty close, so he compensates for your translation's shortcommings by inferring some meaning into it.
Often the resultant message is quite far from your original thought. This can cause big problems and cost big money when the supplier thinks that he has been given approval for a concept because the buyer thinks that he heard what he wanted to hear.
The mistake is not only with the speaker, it is with the entire process.
My advice is to learn to recognize when the possibility of this situation is likely, and don't be afraid to say "you know, my English is not as good as it could be, and I am afraid that my meaning may have been lost. Let's make sure that we both have the same understanding before we go on."
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
If you want to get better, practice is always good. Why not stop by the electric motor and electric power forums? There you can practice your English, especially the technical terms. Also you might learn some technical things and no doubt can teach the rest of us a few things.
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RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Are you at Lackenby / Redcar or Scunny? You sound suspiciously like a Yorkshireman.
Noo divvunt aal youse be tellin us wuh cannae speek proppa up in The Toon!
(Apologies to those who aren't from England!)
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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
B.E.
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
But it is not easy to understand Scotty: "No ??? at all use telling us we cannot speak proper up there in the town"
Or something entirely different...
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
thanks a lot for your advice; you're a good adviser too!!!
till now, i've always written "advicer" instead of "adviser" and i have never noted the mistake.
i give you a good point!
scotty and berkshire,
i really don't understand your english. in which town do you come from?
you know, also in france, we have many languages(for instance, the "breton" which is quiet different from french).
i think it's the same all around the world (even in a tiny country such as belgium or switzerland for instance).
i'm particularly interested in your case; do you make an effort to speak "common english" with foreigner engineers or not?
thank you very much indeed
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Engineer: "You are always picking on me. I think it is cruel and hurtful and I'm telling you now you can cut it off!"
Technician (turns to another colleague): "And you can shut down too!"
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I also try and speak 'common english' with english people as in my area (the north east of the UK, as Scotty correctly guessed) we are the foreigners so to speak.
SomptingGuy, It's no wonder non-english get confused when you say that the engineer didn't quite 'pull it off'. I see another topic here.
corus
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Back to the OP, MintJulep is quite correct, any deficiencies in broken English get picked up and assumed by the listener, which is the root of most misunderstandings. The same holds true even with two native speakers so I don't see a way around it without being slow and methodically establishing every point as you go.
To improve one's English I say read more books, that's the main way mine got to be the way it is (public school not withstanding). Come over and visit if you can, we had a French intern for a few months and the difference was quite large by the time he left.
Also, for all interested, this link is quite good for technical terms in French:
http://
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I just got both languages tested well yesturday.
I had a French built roller reefing gear for a boat to install. The instructions covered about 15 different models with the instructions in French and sub titles in English. I found I had to read both sets of instructions to really figure out what was wanted then sift through to find the instructions I really needed. Fun.
B.E.
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
In general we all can get along in language, but in engineering it's most important to address the assumption of units. SI vs IP...
This is where we make our very best mistakes...
Just my view
Best regards
pennpoint
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
according to you, if all engineers around the world speak fluent english, would their job be more efficient, faster,...?
if so, do you think that futur engineers should have a trainning in the USA, UK, or any country where English is fluently spoken?
thanks a lot to everybody...
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
corus
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks Pro 06/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Most of my UK and EU colleagues speak at least 2, if not 3 languages.
US born and US trained engineers generally (there are exceptions of course) speak only one language.
If more engineers spoke multiple languages, then if english doesn't work, they can switch to another mutual language. I think this would be more efficient in the work place.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I think speaking more than one language you not only aids direct communication but also gives you a feel for the country.
One of the things I have noticed working in a very international organisation where I can be the only native English speaker in the room is that my collegues all use a common sub set of English. The same when we switch to French those of use for who it is a second language use have a limited volcabulary and can work within that most of the time.
We apply one simple rule when we have people from different languages. KEEP IT SIMPLE.
Very complex ideas can be communicated with relatively simple language, it may take longer. But clearing up after the accident when we thought we understood takes even longer.
John
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
The Geordie phrase translates as
"Now don't all you be telling us that we can not speak properly up in Newcastle"
corus,
I'm at the former Enron plant on the Mad Mile.
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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
The Enron plant gives a perfect example of how not to design cooling towers by asking a largely uniformed public for their opinion. Although it's off-topic, people may be interested to see the design from this photo : h
The Enron power plant has the curiously shortened cooling tower in the picture, as people nearby objected to the view. Unfortunately nobody told them that a shortened tower would not dissipate the clouds properly. I'm sure residents of the nearby villages of Lazenby and Wilton would like to thank Enron, if only they could find their way out of the fog.
Back to topic, I'm not sure if the Enron design was non-english, but it was certainly a mistake.
(Note for non-english speaking people: a factory is often referred to as a plant, though not the kind of plant you would have in a garden or would want in your back yard. I hope that's clear)
corus
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
The stumpy tower is just how corus described it: local residents given too much say in matters which they didn't understand. Of course it saved a small fortune by only building half of the tower, so Enron were quite happy to go along with it. If you look around the rest of the area you would wonder
(a) why they were worried about seeing their neighbourhood, and
(b) who in their right mind would want to live there regardless of the shape of the cooling tower.
From top to bottom: North Tees chemical complex (nuclear power plant just out of shot); River Tees; car terminal; Corus Lackenby steelworks; part of the Wilton chemical complex; Teesside Power Station
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I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
How wrong I was.
I spent two weeks not understanding half of what was said to me. Part of it was accents and pronunciation, and the other part was different word usage. I couldn't even understand casual conversations overheard from passerbys on the streets.
Once, when there were 4 Mexican engineers visiting the same plant I was visiting to witness performance tests on one of their units, I overheard them in the hotel restaurant one morning and was finally able to understand everything that was being said. And they weren't speaking my native language. But I couldn't understand much of what the two english waiters standing nearby talking my native language were saying.
Point being, it is often said that we (the USA and England) are two countries separated by a common language. Just because we speak the same language doesn't mean that we understand each other.
rmw
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
An example, I am originally from the southwestern midlands. The forest of Dean. where a common greeting is " Ow bis goin on". This is actually a contraction of the old English " How be est thou going? " which would probably be a pretty fair translation to " comment allez vous?" There are other examples related to this but I will not dwell on them. Now others would say yes but you are not spelling in English. and you are right, the spell checker on this machine is American. It will not let me spell properly.
B.E.
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
You're not alone! Even us Brits have to listen really carefully to some of the more extreme dialects and accents around the UK. Which part of the UK did you spend time in?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I am a Brit. I was born and raised in Newent Glos.,
B.E.
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
You're obvously a burk rather than a bark
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I apologise for that, since your response was right under my post, I made an ass out of myself for assuming it was for me. Next toyme oy will reed the foyne print.
B.E.
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
I ofter hear non-native English speakers say "thanks God" instead of "thank God," as in "We finished the the project on time, thanks God." I think that is just cute!
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
"what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?"
One answer would be- the english speaking people they're working with can't speak "insert local dialect here".
I have great respect for anyone who can speak a second language- no matter how badly. It's better than I can do (english speaking only). It's too easy to fall into the trap of thinking people make mistakes or are less intelligent because they can't speak your language properly.
Anyway mate- she'll be right- we'll nick off to the pub for a cold one.
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
corus
RE: what are the most common mistakes made by non english engineers?
-written mistakes:
-long sentences: I have been told to cut my sentences in half (at least). This is because back home pre-academic educational system is prone to rewarding the usage of longer sentences, whereas using shorter sentences is regarded as a lack of ability of using your native language.
-unnecessary sentences: This happens especially when I have to write emails to people I do not know or to older people I know. I think this is caused by the more exigent “politeness” rules of my native language, which typically do not let me to “brutally“ expose the topic directly.
-grammar rules: I once know them…or at least I've been taught some. The rule I use the most now is the “it sounds English enough” rule.
spoken mistakes:
-grammar rules: Much worse than in writing especially related to usage of verb past tenses. (you have too many!!!! ).
-pronunciation: There are different words with close pronunciations and my hearing cannot distinguish between them. With regard to this issue, I remember one of our British English favoring teachers advising us not to use “I can’t” when speaking, but preferably “ I cannot”. Only later I found out why. :)
Also, my English was kind of mixed up, when I came here, since my English classes were taught by both American and British English professors.