Is this common in engineering?
Is this common in engineering?
(OP)
Good evening everyone:
I work for a small firm that does architecture and engineering. Out of the twelve people there, I am the sole staff engineer besides my employer. Everyone else is an architect, including the employer who is an architect and engineer. All I have is a EIT license and have done steel design mostly at this job using software. So far, no one has checked my work. Is this common? I do over design my work and do try the best I can to account for everything. My employer is not around much because he is constantly out going to meetings for jobs. I already designed a building that now has to be redesigned because of things I did not see. Luckly, the owner of the job got another engineer to look at the work and found many flaws in my design which was due to my lack of experience but I feel that the owner would have gotten a better product if someone had looked at it to see if it made sense. My employer who has more experience than I do, barely never looks at my work. He left it up to me and an architect to figure almost everything out. One other thing is that, the first year I worked there, I really worked hard because I knew I did not know much. I knew alot about nothing like I always say. Toward the end of the year, I did not receive a raise. I think it was because some of my projects were not done on time but it was difficult getting alot of work done in short periods of time. Last year I skipped alot of holidays, did alot of overtime without getting paid for the extra time I put in, and came in on Saturdays and Sundays to try to get work done faster. Is this common in building design firms? I feel like I am being handed a large amount responsibility yet I dont know enough and penalize for not knowing. It takes longer time for me to do things when you dont know how to do it and I put in the time to learn but I feel frustrated. I dont want to put extra time anymore because I am not going to get paid for it and if something is handed in late, I am not going to see anything for my efforts. This is a money issue but the only reason why it is is because I want to go back to school to get a master degree in structural engineering and I know currently I dont make enough to go back. Has anyone had experience similar to this when trying as a young engineer?
Kmat
I work for a small firm that does architecture and engineering. Out of the twelve people there, I am the sole staff engineer besides my employer. Everyone else is an architect, including the employer who is an architect and engineer. All I have is a EIT license and have done steel design mostly at this job using software. So far, no one has checked my work. Is this common? I do over design my work and do try the best I can to account for everything. My employer is not around much because he is constantly out going to meetings for jobs. I already designed a building that now has to be redesigned because of things I did not see. Luckly, the owner of the job got another engineer to look at the work and found many flaws in my design which was due to my lack of experience but I feel that the owner would have gotten a better product if someone had looked at it to see if it made sense. My employer who has more experience than I do, barely never looks at my work. He left it up to me and an architect to figure almost everything out. One other thing is that, the first year I worked there, I really worked hard because I knew I did not know much. I knew alot about nothing like I always say. Toward the end of the year, I did not receive a raise. I think it was because some of my projects were not done on time but it was difficult getting alot of work done in short periods of time. Last year I skipped alot of holidays, did alot of overtime without getting paid for the extra time I put in, and came in on Saturdays and Sundays to try to get work done faster. Is this common in building design firms? I feel like I am being handed a large amount responsibility yet I dont know enough and penalize for not knowing. It takes longer time for me to do things when you dont know how to do it and I put in the time to learn but I feel frustrated. I dont want to put extra time anymore because I am not going to get paid for it and if something is handed in late, I am not going to see anything for my efforts. This is a money issue but the only reason why it is is because I want to go back to school to get a master degree in structural engineering and I know currently I dont make enough to go back. Has anyone had experience similar to this when trying as a young engineer?
Kmat





RE: Is this common in engineering?
Now a lot of your experience can be self-taught - but this is risky (as you have begun to find out). You should always look to who will "train" you when selecting a job as an EIT.
When I interview prospective engineers, especially when they are younger EIT's, I have in the past handed them my resume and told them that if they are interviewing other firms to ask for their potential supervisor's resume. A job is a two-way agreement so you have every right to know who's brain you are going to tap for further engineering knowledge.
Also, if you are in structural engineering, I'd strongly urge you to get an MS degree. This discipline is much more "bookish" than others (such as Civil Engineering where they learn a lot more on-the-job via public agencies, regulations, etc that affect their work). So an MS is big...it was for me - made all the difference in the world as far as my understanding of design, stress, concepts, and self-learning.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Thanks for your response.
Calif
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I am a young engineer myself and I couldn't sleep at night if my boss didn't check my work. He doesn't check my calculations, but he does check my drawings.
Besides, working 12 hours a day 7 days a week is ridiculous.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Have you at least attempted to raise the lack of mentoring with your boss? Is your direct supervisor also your supervising PE?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Thanks
Calif
RE: Is this common in engineering?
RE: Is this common in engineering?
RE: Is this common in engineering?
If I hire an engineer with 3 years on their resume, I'm going to assume they don't need the direct mentoring anymore and be less inclined to offer it.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Who is signing your structural design?
Does your firm have structural consultants for their larger projects?
Are you the only member of the structural discipline in your firm?
To be licensed in the future, you need work experience under a licensed engineer. Working only for licensed architects doesn't count.
I agree with JAE regarding importance of mentoring in the first two or three years. It is dangerous for your firm to not have anyone supervising/checking your work.
"he quickly glances over it to see it makes sense" doesn't make sense to me... He, I assume, is referring to your boss who is an architect. I'm not trying to degrade architects or anything, but how can an architect "check" your work to see if it makes sense? I bet he is only reviewing to see that there are no conflicts with his architectural design. Any structural design error is likely overlooked.
If your firm isn't ready to hire an experienced structural engineer to lead the structural group, I recommend you move on. There are many opportunities at structural only design firms (big or small), A/E firms with inhouse structural group (big or small).
I sincerely hope you find a great mentor. You will thank him for the rest of your career, even though he may have underpaid you... Regards.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I think the reason he hired me is because it cheaper to hire someone without a license degree than someone with one.
Thanks for everyone advise. I am seriously considering all what has been said here. If there is anything else, please continue to advise.
Thank You
Calif
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I think you answered your own question.
He is taking advantage of you because you are new, non-licensed, and cheap. And, you work overtime (for free), come in on weekends (for free) and you are diligent to boot.
Time to move on - the grass IS greener on the otherside in your case.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I agree with JAE and most. Time to make a move. The first firm I worked for, the big boss ran a similar ship. My direct supervisor was for more hands on in training (both PEs).
My direct supervisor moved on shortly after I did (to a job he loves) and the big boss ... license currently under two year suspension by the board for substandard engineering practice.
Rik
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Understand that "being taken advantage of" early on in your career may not be a bad thing. For example: I get taken advantage of everyday that I work. I work WAY out of the scope of my job description / pay grade. The company benefits from this finicially, and although I'm not making the dollars that most people make for the same work, I'm getting experience within 2 years that most engineers in A/E firms don't get for 5-10 years. I figure it will pay off years down the road.
So take what you've learned (if even by mistake or being taken advantage of) with you. Many engineers in A/E firms spend years doing "grunt" work before leading design efforts. It sounds like you've got to skip the grunt work peroid.....this is valuable.
Amidst Chaos....there is profit....
RE: Is this common in engineering?
When looking for a new firm, few things to look for are:
1. Nice set of typical and standard details. Also someone who can explain them (not simply we've been doing it that way for 30 years)
2. Nice set of standard design guides/calculations for every day design tasks. This way, you don't get 15 different answers to one problem, you might get a few. Consistency among engineers in the office.
3. Decent collection of structural software and someone who knows when to use which program.
4. Company standard calc spreadsheet or MathCAD files and someone who understands them. (Author may have left the firm... At least someone should be able to explain the limitations of the design tools)
5. Should have one representative project for each building type, to be used as a reference and a template (calcs included).
My first job out of college, I had a great boss and a mentor. He paid me twice the minimum wage which hurt my ego, but with his organized office setup, I picked up many good habits. I've gone through seven jobs and it is not easy to find a firm that has the above list.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Thanks you
Calif
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Not only did the boss not check the drawing work, but the construction folks didn't stop to wonder either.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Disciplinary action could happen to anyone, due to an error or omission. Providing a pattern of service that increases the odds of that happening should not be what you should be learning.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Calif
The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste
RE: Is this common in engineering?
This can filter out for you firms that aren't in your discipline. Mail out resumes (snail mail) and/or send via their websites. Many list job opportunities.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Talk to your friends and family first. They usually know of companies hiring, or know of someone who knows of companies hiring.
Good luck.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Also try the seaint.org website.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I got an interview with another firm on Friday. Wish me luck.
Calif
The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I got a second interview and have been waiting for two weeks for a second interview. I email and called by phone and found out that the person interviewing is out on vacation. Is this a bad sign?
Calif
The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Be social, when they get back, aske them where they went, etc. It will be a good ice breaker before you bombard him with when you get to do your second interview.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
The days passed, 1,2,...3 weeks or so, never call me. I call them, about 3 times after the 1-week. At the 3rd week or so, I called just to receive the notice that they have filled th position.
It was dissapointing for me and very un-proffesional from them, I had my hopes on that job.
So, call & bug them as many times as you want, it is your time, don't worry about how many time you do it (in fact tell them you might have other opportunities, but you want to know their resolution). They shall give a Yes or NO, I would say in 1-week or so after the interview, otherwise they are not doing their work or they don't care about you(that's what I learn)(if you notice the HR in charge took-off for vacation w/o caring about or telling someone about you or your interview, that's so unproffesional). Remember that you can be spending time hunting or searching at other companies.
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I would continue on with my search until I sign a contract. People say lots of things. Things change. They forget. Ultimately, it is you that suffer.
If they come back from vacation, and offer you a job, great. If they don't, at least you haven't wasted your time waiting.
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I did just that and got another interview last week on Wednesday. After the interview, I had to submit a sample calculations as well as a report for technical writing. Just sent it today. Hopefully, things will start changing.
Keep your fingers cross for me.
Calif
The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Just an Update:
I got an offer from the job interview I went to on that Wednesday. They are offering me a good package to come and the pay increase was much more than I expected. I am so excited. I have to call them back to see what my title in tails as a staff engineer. Now I have to break the news to my employer tomarrow. I also have to break the news to this head hunter that wants me to go interview with a company that does facilities and nuclear power plants(Doesnt sound interesting). He has been wanting me to interview for a while now but I have been so busy with work that I havent had the time to take off to check it out.
Take it easy guys
Calif
The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste
RE: Is this common in engineering?
RE: Is this common in engineering?
Calif
The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste
RE: Is this common in engineering?
I once worked at a place that shares some attributes with your soon-to-be-former employer.
It's very, very bad.
To leave, end up with a *real* firm, *and* get a raise is very, very good.
Well done and congratulations.
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RE: Is this common in engineering?
I'm glad you found another job.
Nert
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Nert