College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
(OP)
We are re-evaluating which package to teach and use with undergraduate mechanical engineering students. We currenly have ProE/M though we are not heavily vested in it. I know historically SW has been faster to learn and use, compared to ProE. But ProE has improved in recent years and I don't know where they stand today. It would be great to know some rough estimates (e.g., %s, weeks, hours, mouse clicks) of the current differences.
Speed of learning and using is one of our considerations. I'd value your perspectives on these other factors:
1. Acceptance in industry: ProE is probably a little better because a ProE user can more easily learn SW than v.v.
2. Integration with a good FEA program: ProMechanica is probably enough for most undergrads although non-linear capabilities would be desirable. We're considering Ansys, Abaqus, Marc, __Nastran... to augment ProM. NEiWorks/Nastran looks like a logical and good choice for SW, since Cosmosworks is probably not enough.
3. Integration with a good CFD program: still working on this one.
4. Integration with a good CAM program: ProE has ProNC modules in the education edition, although I haven't heard much about them in industry. We have and would like to keep using SurfCam, so SW is better here.
5. Academic pricing: getting these quotes now.
Thanks,
David Malicky
University of San Diego
www.sandiego.edu/engineering
Speed of learning and using is one of our considerations. I'd value your perspectives on these other factors:
1. Acceptance in industry: ProE is probably a little better because a ProE user can more easily learn SW than v.v.
2. Integration with a good FEA program: ProMechanica is probably enough for most undergrads although non-linear capabilities would be desirable. We're considering Ansys, Abaqus, Marc, __Nastran... to augment ProM. NEiWorks/Nastran looks like a logical and good choice for SW, since Cosmosworks is probably not enough.
3. Integration with a good CFD program: still working on this one.
4. Integration with a good CAM program: ProE has ProNC modules in the education edition, although I haven't heard much about them in industry. We have and would like to keep using SurfCam, so SW is better here.
5. Academic pricing: getting these quotes now.
Thanks,
David Malicky
University of San Diego
www.sandiego.edu/engineering






RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
That said - I believe it's an 'apples to oranges' comparison, b/c of my inexperience to solid modeling.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Bradley
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
CosmosWorks is just fine, although you have to actually get Designer, Xpress is a bit of a joke.
Can't vouch for the CFD or CAM.
That being said, here is the set of my class's projects:
http://www2.mmae.ucf.edu/~eml5025/fa03/
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
My neighbours son (18) has been playing with AutoCAD for a few years. Last weekend I showed him SW. I gave him 3 simple parts to model and assemble. He was able to do it (with a little help, but not a lot) in 30 minutes.
In my opinion, SW is REALLY easy to learn.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
I know people who use ProE and who seem to wear the overcoming of the difficulties of that program as a sort of badge of honor. That alone speaks for itself.
You'll probably want to post this question in the ProE forum if you haven't already, since ProE has morphed--for better or worse--into a quasi-mid-range new-interface sort of thing called WildFire. My ProE clients won't make the switch and are sticking with their full-version five-year-old software and about to ditch it altogether for SolidWorks since SolidWorks is increasingly picking up industry recognition and user-base.
Also, make sure you fully understand what really comes with each package for the price. SolidWorks Office will provide an integrated rendering package that is quite competent, as well as lots of other things that are often tacked on as modules in ProE--for an additional price, too. So be careful what you're really comparing.
Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reason trumps all. And awe trumps reason.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
1) Uses Windows conventions (cntrl-Z for undo, drag and drop, etc.)
2) Coherent user interface.
3) More modules included or relatively inexpensive to add (sheetmetal, photoworks, animator).
4) Costs less.
5) Gaining in industry use.
I've been using Pro/E from release 13 to Wildfire 2 and SW from SW2000 to SW2006. Except for some surfacing stuff I'd pick SW over Pro every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
-b
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Best Regards,
Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
I recieved my degree from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, the best school in the country for their undergraduate program in Aerospace Engineering. While I was there they switched from Bentley Microstation to Catia 5 V5. I did an internship at the Milwaukee School of Engineering. There computer lab utilizes both ProE and Solidworks. Checking with other schools might be a good way to start also.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
SolidWorks or Pro/E
Best Regards,
Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
However, you must allow Pro/E to be available to students because a lot of major companies use it. In the aerospace and mainly automotive industries Catia is used too. Solidworks would be the best to use throughout a college curriculum in that you can teach it from day one and expect it to be a tool the student can spend time using rather than spending time learning to use it.
Integration with FEA on a academic basis is in Solidworks favor as it has Cosmosworks academic available. Pro/Mechanica is more basic in that it doesn't do CFD. True, you would like to get more options for CFD and structural, but the academic cost of Solidworks with Cosmos is less than textbooks.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Until you can answer that question, then any decision you make will be arbitrary.
As an end user, I would like to see them learn a strong tree based approach, a thorough understanding of constraints and parametric modelling, and the ability to visualise parts from the screen. They also must be able to create usable 2D drawings from the model.
If you teach them a package that encourages that approach, good.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
We hired a designer here and he did not know how large or small .001 of an inch was. It took days to teach him the difference between a tenth and a tenth, meaning .0001 and .1
If an Engineer says he want the hard anodize to be 3 tenths thick, he does not mean .3
Bradley
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
The surfacing in Pro also has more visualization tools, and somewhat more capability (we have ISDX).
-b
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
I was fortunate enough to have had an internship as a model maker while in college--excellent experience, since I was already good at making things and enjoyed doing so. There's a sort of "callibration" that occurs when working with materials, dimensions, processes, etc. that is, essentially, experience.
The more experience a person has, the more immediately useful that person will be to me--which is where this discussion seems to be going now. (Great point, GregLocock!)
Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reason trumps all. And awe trumps reason.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
The goal was showing what needs to be on the drawing for the machinist to get the part made right.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
US News & World Report
Best Colleges and Universities Issue
Not just my opinion.
Thanks for asking
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
As an aside, Embry-Riddle is very well regarded in the aerospace industy.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
I have been teaching Solidworks as a side job at Corporate College in the Cleveland Ohio area and have found that my students get a very good basic understanding of the functionality of Solidworks in the 32 hours of training of the level one class. Most of my students are currently AutoCAD users and the companies they work for have recently purchased Solidworks as a new platform.
While I have never used Pro-E, I have known people who have, and they tell me that to perform the same function in Pro-E that I show them in Solidworks, the answer is almost always the same. Solidworks is easier to understand, and Pro-E has more steps to achieve the same results.
Good luck with which ever choice you make.
Yanceman.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Yanceman - try doing a varible section sweep in SWx?
David - I think if you teach any of the top 3D MCAD programs you will give your students the skills to learn other programs. Once they understand the basics of parametric modeling they can cross over to other programs. So pick the one that makes $$$$$$ sense.
Best Regards,
Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Just as Yanceman said "Solidworks is easier to understand, and Pro-E has more steps to achieve the same results."
Soldiworks is Dassult's mid-range product, Catia high-end
Pro/E (Wildfire) is PTC main/only CAD product, considered high-end
correct me if im wrong
Adam
Solidworks 2005 SP01.1
Windows 2000
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Best Regards,
Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Started the new Wildfire 1.0, 2.0, 3.0.
Im not real versed on WF because its so different than the previous versions. Now has more of a SW look, icons, easier navigation.
Adam
Solidworks 2005 SP01.1
Windows 2000
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Adam
Solidworks 2005 SP01.1
Windows 2000
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
I am a recent graduate who learned on both Pro 2001 and wildfire. At work we use autocad and SW. I have had no trouble learning these packages, and although i am a little slower im getting better. They tried to switch to pro/e two years ago here and only one of seven designers really picked it up. Pro/e is simply a more advanced package.
How could you could post a recomendation in the solid works forum. I think the people hear might have a preference.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
I made my recommendation for SW, though I seldom use it and am a UG driver. I agree though that those who read this forum may tend to be somewhat biased.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
I do not believe preference has any place in this conversation. Preferences develope from years of doing the same thing. The question was what package is best for students. Anyone doing serious surface moldling and/or required C2 continuity must use Pro/e.
I know a guy who prefers word perfect. I sure aint teaching anyone that.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Thanks for the laugh!
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
must use pro/e if your options are pro/e or solid works.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
First I'd have to find out what a variable section sweep is. :)
Yanceman
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Adam
Solidworks 2005 SP01.1
Windows 2000
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Best Regards,
Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 5.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
There you have the advantage. I've used SW for 5 years, but my info on Pro-E is all second hand.
Also, by combining features into folders in the feature manager keeps my complex models looking clean. It is not until you open the folders within the feature manager that you see all the steps of the model.
Yanceman
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
:) my $0.02
Adam
Solidworks 2005 SP01.1
Windows 2000
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
For ease of use there doesn’t seem to be much controversy. For completeness, the academic Pro/E package is actually pretty good—includes ISDX, sheetmetal, machining, animation, for example. Of course there are about a hundred other factors to the decision.
Local industry is split... small companies prefer SWx, larger ones Pro/E or a higher-end package.
Yes, our learning objectives include visualization, some hand drafting, parametric modeling, 2D drawings, and more. I wish I could write the learning objectives and choose directly from those, but the MCAD package affects so many other courses, people, and software that there's a complex list of pros and cons. Not to mention politics! We’d like to have both packages available to everyone but we probably won’t have the $ for that.
Importance of machining experience... I could not agree more. In fact we have an entire semester of lab devoted to manual machining, sheetmetal, hand tools, and woodworking so that they can make what they design. In my experience the best design engineers are usually the ones who can make what they design, within reason. (We also have another lab course on mass production processes—CNC, molding, etc., and another on production systems).
Thanks again, David
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
h
http://s
http://www.ptc.com/for/education/index.htm
http://www.ptc.com/WCMS/files/33577en_file1.pdf
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
FYI, You are the one that mentioned "preference".
Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
Wow, what a long thread!
First of all, I have to say that I'm a CATIA user but I used before SW. I saw also how Pro-E is working.
In my opinion, SW is most easily to learn vs any other parametric CAD software.
I wasn't curious of how SW and Pro-E shares the market, but I can see on this site that SW has almost double number of members than CATIA or Pro-E.
That means something, isn't it?
Regards
Fernando
RE: College setting: how much faster to learn & use is SW v. ProE?
It's hard to go by the members here....there are many CAD forums on the web, in most cases, the majority of a particular CAD programs users may hang out at one or two places.
Jason
UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2005 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2
SolidWorks 2006 SP3.3 on WinXP SP2