copper water services corroding
copper water services corroding
(OP)
I've had a contractor friend contact our company about a project that his company completed 18 months ago that has had some problems arise recently.
They completed a water main project and installed all water services. The Village has called him regarding leaks with these services, although they didn't know the reason why.
The contractor went out and dug up the locations of the leaks and found that the copper water services have corroded and are leaking already. Keep in mind this has only been 18 months since project completion.
We're baffled. Does anybody have any ideas what is going on here?
The location is a north suburb in Chicago.
They completed a water main project and installed all water services. The Village has called him regarding leaks with these services, although they didn't know the reason why.
The contractor went out and dug up the locations of the leaks and found that the copper water services have corroded and are leaking already. Keep in mind this has only been 18 months since project completion.
We're baffled. Does anybody have any ideas what is going on here?
The location is a north suburb in Chicago.





RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding
Since this problem has come up so soon after installation is it a galvanic or stray current problem? You didn't indicate whether the problem was above ground or below ground but have you checked the soils report for corrosivity?
RE: copper water services corroding
I will add that there is a well known corrosion problem in the collar communities around the Chicago suburbs that are served by well water. The corrosion is primarily due to low water pH. The low pH water will corrode copper.
However, this would be considered as a chronic long term problem and leaks should not occur in just 18 months. You may be dealing with two issues; firstly poor installation workmanship and secondly corrosion.
RE: copper water services corroding
Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.
WWW.amlinereast.com
RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding
I do have pictures, but do not know how to post them here, and I do not have a website where I can put them up on. Does anyone know how to post them, or give me an address to send them to for more advice?
I have also posted this in the corrosion engineering forum as recommended, but it is getting views here as well.
RE: copper water services corroding
I uploaded the pictures at www.tinypic.com
Search for images CopperCorrosion1 and CopperCorrosion2 and you'll see what I'm talking about in this case.
http://tinypic.com/tags/?tag=CopperCorrosion1
http://tinypic.com/tags/?tag=CopperCorrosion2
Metengr is right, this is Lake Michigan water and should not have any problems with pH. I could see it in some far NW or SW outlying suburbs that have well water, but not in this particular community.
RE: copper water services corroding
Remember, amateurs built the ark...professionals built the Titanic. -Steve
RE: copper water services corroding
http://i1.tinypic.com/s18cpz.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/s18dh4.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/s18dnq.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/s18dtw.jpg
RE: copper water services corroding
cub3bead suggested getting the pH of the water as well as the LSI. The corrosion looks severe enough that so you probably should get a complete water analysis.
However, knowing the water quality of Lake Michigan, it is unlikely that you are experiencing corrosion from the water.
It is more likely that you are experiencing corrosion on the outside of the pipe as shown in your 4th picture.
You can use the information from Cast Iron Soil Pipe Institute to determine if the soil is corrosive. The information contained in American National Standard A21.5, American Society of Testing and Materials A674, A74 and A888, and American Water Works Association Specification C 105 provide installation instructions and an appendix that details a 10 point scale to determine whether the soils are potentially corrosive to cast iron. Information on this Standard is available by emailing the Cast Iron Soil Pipe Institute and its member companies.
Here is a good discussion of copper pipe corrosion:
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Other than that, you need to provice more information. Everything else is speculation.
RE: copper water services corroding
The fact that it is most evident at the corp also leads me in that direction.
Check the electrical grounding of the houses (if you can), did the electricians skimp on the ground rods and are just using the copper water pipe as ground and or worse the neutral?
You can check the current through the service line by using a clamp-on ammeter around service line
A broken heater element inside the hot water heater can also cause a lot of stray current through the water line, in that case the current would not be continuous.
Hydrae
RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding
http://www
"It is also known that improperly prepared or installed flared tube joints on underground service lines, caused by the presence of residual burrs on the seating surface, can result in localized erosion and corrosion. When this occurs, the problem is readily recognized by the U-shaped pits on the affected areas, which are essentially free of residual corrosion products (figure below). "
RE: copper water services corroding
1) Is this happening at ALL the connections?
2) Has anybody exposed a connetion that was not leaking to check it's condition?
3) If the connections that are not leaking in good condition then is there a stray current at the connections that are leaking?
4) Why are they installing copper pipe when Polyethylene tubing is available? That's all I ever spec and haven't had a problem in years.
5) Obviously they have other service connections on other parts of the system and they don't appear to be having problems. Are there any significant differences in the new installations vs. the old ones?
RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding
RE: copper water services corroding