Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
(OP)
Hi,
I want to get some honest opinions about my chances in getting a decent job with a sub 3.0 GPA. I'm having a great deal of difficulty finishing my last 400 level courses. Although I did great in my 200 level courses, I'm having difficulty grasping the higher-level concepts and am scraping by with a string of C's. 300 Level courses were B's. When I graduate, I expect to have an overall GPA of about 2.7-2.8. Part of the reason why my GPA is so low is that I haven't done very well in my non-engineering courses either.
All that being said, during my two internships I was noted as being a very hard worker and learned quickly on the job (processes, use of software, but not technical material).
I'm hoping to get some ideas/strategies on how to improve my job outlook. Thanks for any help!!!
I want to get some honest opinions about my chances in getting a decent job with a sub 3.0 GPA. I'm having a great deal of difficulty finishing my last 400 level courses. Although I did great in my 200 level courses, I'm having difficulty grasping the higher-level concepts and am scraping by with a string of C's. 300 Level courses were B's. When I graduate, I expect to have an overall GPA of about 2.7-2.8. Part of the reason why my GPA is so low is that I haven't done very well in my non-engineering courses either.
All that being said, during my two internships I was noted as being a very hard worker and learned quickly on the job (processes, use of software, but not technical material).
I'm hoping to get some ideas/strategies on how to improve my job outlook. Thanks for any help!!!





RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
You do have a harder road ahead than one with a 3.5 - that's just a fact (BTW - my GPA years ago was 2.8; my daughter's GPA 2 years ago was also 2.8, so I know whee you're coming from).
That your GPA is declining rather than improving may add to you difficulty, but only with those few folks who actually look into details (the majority will never see beyong the GPA).
How do you interview? In simple terms, the only purpose of your resume is to get you an interview, and that's where YOU have a chance to impress the prospective companies.
In the long run, my only advice is:
a) keep trying, eventually you'll land your first real job,
b) excell at your first real job, and 24 months later no one will give a hoot about your GPA.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
These are things that I have heard from actual engineering managers. Blitz the resume and don't give up.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Your resume should reflect that you have received your degree. I would not put GPA information on it rather leaving that up to an interviewer to ask. Be prepared to answer honestly. You note that picking up on technical material was not indicated as one of your internship strengths. If you try for positions in larger corporations, you may have the opportunity to be mentored. Smaller firms rely on you to get up to speed quickly.
Good luck and regards,
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
My personal opinion is that such policies can exclude some of the best engineers. Perhaps someone didn't get good grades because he was working 60hrs a week to pay for school (and carrying a full load), but excels in practical applications of his schoolwork? Is that guy a worse candidate than someone with a parent-sponsored 3.5 who spent his weekends partying, and had the extra cash to buy notes at the bookstore and hire a tutor for each class, and turned in all the homework on time but really doesn't know what it all means?
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Would you be able to go back and get a job where you did your internships? Or could you use the contacts you made in those places to find a job later? Its been said before on this site but the best way to find a job is networking. Contacts that know you personally and know your strengths will help more than an anonymous GPA.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Sure, internships help. But, if it wasn't at "My" company, it is hard to tell what the real work you did was. Were you playing softball most of the time, or actually contributing to a project?
For me, the fact that your GPA is going downwards would raise flags. Most student's GPA come up. Party first year. Catch up on missed work second year. Doing well third year. Doing well or better fourth year.
In the later years, students are asked to "think" more, to use what they know and apply it more. In fourth year, you typically have a design project. These are the skills that most engineering firms need. If you don't know the information, you can look it up. If you don't know what to do with the information, or can't process it, then there is a greater problem.
On the other hand, 2.7 or 2.8 isn't too low (I am assuming your GPA is out of 4?). High light what you do well, and your other accomplishments.
I would also advise that you be prepared to look for work beyond the hiring process at your school. You may need to look for yourself. Start with the company you interened for. Talk to your old manager - he will have friends that he may recommend your resume to. Talk to your parents, friends, etc.
Good Luck.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
In my case I didn't even put my GPA on my resume which may been a bad idea, b/c I should have highlighted that I did very well in my last two years to ease the interviewers worries.
In the end my GPA didn't mean squat b/c I got a job primarily b/c I knew someone who knew the engineering manager. I got laid off from that job 14 months later and the second place to hire me on didn't blink an eye about my GPA.
An interesting trend though, it took me 4 months to find my first job out of university, 2 months to find my second and no time to find my present job (my second employer shut down and I started here the next day).
The only time I can see your GPA being a problem is if you want to go to grad school with less than about 5 years of experience under your belt. Any more than that and they won't really care, especially if you have taken some continuing education courses (and done well) in between.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
“I see you are having difficultly in your senior level courses. Why is that?”
Take a few minutes and try to answer this on the forum as you would in the interview. Then we will give you some tips / comments based upon your answer.
Some follow up questions from me would be:
“How will you overcome a general lack of theoretical knowledge?”
“How do you approach your design projects? Especially if it is in an area of knowledge you are weak in?
“Is there anything you can tell me from your internships that would offset your difficulty with senior level EE classes?”
ShiftF4, please note that a lot of interviewers will look at what those classes were you were having trouble in…..if for instance you can’t do circuit boards but can do power and my company is in the high power business, then you are probably okay.
But if you have low grades across the board in all senior level EE courses, then it is not too late to consider a new major. If you swapped over to IE for instance and made awesome grades, then I would be impressed that you were willing to work at it and finally found what you were good at….overall GPA would not matter in that case.
ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Students with 4.0s will get their PhDs and become professors
Students with 3.0s will get a job, working for someone
Students with 2.0s will start their own company and hire the 3.0s
I graduated with a 2.6 and four offers. How did I do it?
-I went to every career fair offered by the school.
-I looked at all sources that had job postings (i.e. Craigslist, Monster, Eng-Tips, etc).
-I submitted my resume to every job posting that I was qualified for.
-I went onto company's website to see if they're hiring.
-I interviewed with whoever gave me an interview.
-I worked on my interview skills by interviewing with companies that I knew wouldn't hire me, i.e. sales management positions ( I had a lot of sales jobs including a sales management internship).
-I didn't list my gpa on my resume and when they asked what it was, I gave them my reason, i.e. "Before I tell you my gpa, (insert reason). My gpa is (insert gpa)."
I hope that helps...
BTW, I graduated 3 months ago and have been working for a company with a minimum gpa of 2.75.
DLauEng
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I heard it this way:
The professor said,
"Be nice to the PhDs, they bring in research grants."
"Be very nice to the MSs, they teach the students."
"Be especially nice to the BSs, they build the university."
Good luck,
Latexman
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
It's funny but that comment is really true, all my friends at uni with 4s went into grad school right after uni...to become professors, all the 3s found jobs fairly quickly and are happy being sedentary and me...I was a 2.85, I spend most of my days at hoem and at work (in management or something resembling it...I don't know how I got that)thinking about what sort of business I can start.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Personally, I didn't put my GPA on my resume. I felt that, if the company was more concerned with how I did test-wise and not how I fit into their picture, then it wasn't a place I wanted to work. It's a bit of a utopian point of view, but it's worked well for me. That being said, I never had a problem telling them my overall GPA and my major (engineering) GPA as well as explaining that I brought it up in the last 1.5 years of schooling.
2.8 is not a bad GPA to have. It may cause a bit of concern up front, but I tend to think that experience, interview skills, and proven ability are more important than some stupid little number.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Motivation and wanting to do Engineering work (ie. applying for engineering jobs I know I wouldn't get but landed some interviews).
Knowing how and what to say during the interview process either on phone and ultimately in-person. Highlight your strengths and explain what happened in your situation and what you did to overcome those past obstacles. As a previous poster had mentioned, if your college splits up overall and in-major/minor GPA's highlight whichever one is higher during the interview. I sure did!
Having the motivation and ability to learn and adapt to change and new experiences (ie. being a fast learner and wanting to know everything about a job, problem, etc not just provide end results without understanding the aggregate picture).
Contacts and networking also plays a big part in where you end up. Be professional with all you meet and don't burn your bridges because those people can be vital contacts in landing your next job. Sometimes its who you know and not what you know and while I have my own reservations on that issue, it usually turns out to be true.
I hope my experience can help to enlighten you on your situation and help you overcome all the negativity you may feel, have felt or my encounter. Its been a struggle for me too but I can honestly say that I am happier at my new job. It may take a while but with perseverence you will see it through.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I don't think that a 2.8 GPA is that bad at all. Engineering is a tough program to get through. I think that you have pretty good grades considering the program you are in. I graduated with a 2.95 and I got a job right out of college. I think the fact that you have had 2 internships is VERY good. That alone with your decent GPA should make you stand out in the job market. Especially if the internships are willing to give you good reviews. Finding a job is tough for anyone these days. Be persistent and keep pluggin' away at it and I'm sure you'll be able to get a job offer that you'll be satisfied with.
Plus, as "pse" mentioned above, you have a good background for just about anything. Be glad you chose a solid career path like engineering. I have friends who were english majors in college and they got straight A's and they couldn't find a job at all. My wife has a psychology degree and she doesn't have many options available to her either. Whenever I browse for jobs, I see tons of jobs that I'm qualified for. There is a lot of opportunity out there for you even outside of engineering. So if you have trouble finding an engineering job for a while, find something to tide you over in the meantime and keep sending out resumes. I have a friend that did terrible in engineering. He barely graduated. He probably had around a 2.0 GPA. He didn't have any internship experience either. He didn't get a job right out of college. He had to settle as a data entry clerk for a few years (which I'm sure pretty much sucked) but then ,after much persistence and patience, he finally landed an engineering job. So if HE can do it, I'm sure you can.
What about the internships you worked at? I knew a lot of students who got there first full-time jobs by becoming permanent hires at the same place they had their internships. They already know you're a hard worker. It would be a good back-up plan at least. Good luck.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
2.8 GPA out of 4 is about 70%?
The passing mark for my degree is 60% average, with no more than 2 courses below 50% in a given semester.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
My graduate level courses were better... 3.somethings.
Don't sweat it... it is what it is.
I own my own company, I don't hire graduates at all. I hire people that work.
Charlie
www.facsco.com
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
That being said, I understand and appreciate your general premise of wanting experience over education.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Meanwhile I have worked with some very muddle-headed 4.0ers who could not engineer themselves out of a paper bag. I attribute this, in part, to the grade inflation that has occurred over the years. But it is also due to the fact that engineering is an art that one either feels in his or her bones or doesn't.
The most important thing to do when you get your first job is to ask lots of questions and make sure you have the right idea about what is expected. You do not have to know everything; you just have to be aware of what you do not know, and you have to figure out how to get the answer.
Take every assignment seriously. Even if someone gives you some xeroxing (not an uncommon assignment for a junior engineer), ask if the copies should be collated, 3 hole punched, stapled, etc. Before presenting the finished product, check them scrupulously to make sure nothing is missing or upside down. Do this and you will soon have a reputation for being responsible. The more worthy assignments will come rolling in.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Anyway, in most of these stories, you also notice they went on to do better, meaning they didn't stay the same mediocre or poor student but rather changed their work habits, work ethic, or what-have-you. Of course, some didn't or don't and still slack and make excuses. What's important from all of this is you have the opportunity to overcome a bad mark and compensate for everything. It will take some work but that's to be expected and can certinaly be done if you want it bad enough. Good luck!
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I had to work 40 hours throughout college and I had some personal issues with drinking and a horrific break-up.
Somehow, with those crappy grades I was able to land a job at a very respectable consulting firm within 3 months of graduating. They apparently didn't hire anyone with less than a 3.0 GPA.
The point is that the GPA is just a guideline. It's basically to get your foot in the door for an interview. Once you get that interview it's up to you. Regardless of whether you have a 4.0 or a 2.0, you will get the job if they like you and you seem competent. In entry-level positions you don't need a lot of technical skills anyway. Usually, they will mold you to what you need to be doing and you'll be trained, and all of your work will be checked. For that reason, they usually don't need a genius.
So, the secret to finding a good job (or any job) is to blow them away in the interview. Remain calm and act confident. I think that I was able to get my job because I was so calm and confident in the interview. I was almost certain that I wouldn't get the job (because of the GPA requirements), so I was not nervous at all. I was at ease and this allowed me to be myself and I think the employers saw that and liked it.
Good luck
Stoddard
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I put two different GPA's on my resume: My overall and my engineering course GPA's. I did this because I was in the same boat. I had a higher GPA in my major than I did overall. Mainly because I had some real bad grades lingering from my first major (computer science) and it was bringing down my average. Most likely your prospective employers won't give a rat's behind about how well you did in "sociology" or "intro to music" or "anthropology" or any of those elective non-engineering classes. So it would definitely be a good idea to distinguish between your major GPA and overall GPA on your resume. I imagine it would increase your chances of being considered.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I landed my first job from a friend of family and got fired after 6 months! My next job was through a temp agency which gave me very good experience at a small engineering consulting firm, and was a much better job fit. They hired me temp to perm after 3 months.
You'll find the right job fit after interviewing at several places. My experience is only one company asked to see my transcript.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
When I went out and interviewed, I found a few people really cared about grade point averages (engineers with PhD and PE) but most people cared more about my past internships and my references. During my 5 years working, I have met engineers that are very book smart but were completely useless when placed in a field or plant situation. I have also met engineers that weren't at the top of their class but know process/equipment/etc inside, outside, and probably in their sleep.
If you are willing to work hard, someone will take a chance on you. Even if you don't like the first (or sometimes the only) job offer you get, learn what you can and use that experience to move onto another job.
-AW (chemical and environmental engineer)
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Big companies, that get lots of resumes, will use GPA as a first pass filter. Look at smaller companies, especially somewhere that you might have a personal connection.
Alternatively you could stick around school another year. I got my MS degree, and landed a much better job than I would have had I left immediately after my BS. I attribute it more to the maturity I gained that year than to the piece of paper. It might be worth your while to postpone graduation to take more classes and raise your GPA.
-b
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
So it really depends on the company and the person doing the screening and hiring. I have found what is most important is to get your resume into the right hands. Most hiring managers will not look at your GPA first, where the screening (HR) manager will use GPA to dwindle down the resumes to a manageable number. The person who is making the hiring decision will take notice that you used your time and resources to get your resume directly to them. That usually will earn you at least an interview and then you have a chance to explain why your GPA is not as high as others.
Try to draw attention on your resume to your two internships and your accomplishments there and on-campus activities. After your land your first job, nothing but having earned your degree will matter so drop your GPA from your resume. It won't be an issue after that with most companies. Someone above said to focus on smaller companies, and that is probably your best bet for your first job. Good luck.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
If it's a judgement call kinda job, yeah, common sense prevails over GPA.
But low GPA probably means not so good at doing calculations on paper. For a design job, I wouldn't want someone who's not so good at doing calculations on paper.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I agree with you about judgement calls and common sense but not the part about low GPA meaning poor calculations. A low GPA could mean the student was just not good at or interested in physics, calculus, fluid mechanics, chemistry, or EE. However, that same student could have done very, very well with structures, soil mechanics, transportation, hydraulics, surveying, etc.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
The original poster in this thread was getting worse and worse grades as the classes got more advanced. To me that's a bad sign--as one specializes more and more in one's chosen area, one should be doing better and better. I really don't see that as a "no big deal" situation. Again, unless it's not the kind of job that requires deep analysis or calculation skills.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I landed a job 4 months later and have been here for over 6 months. I didn't put my GPA on my resume and all the companies I interviewed with didn't bother asking me about my GPA. Of course, it also depends on what type of companies you interview with. The more competitive the company the more likely they will be looking at your GPA. If you try small companies they are less likely to care about your grades (in my experience). I put all my experiences on my resume and apparently that has impressed my employer.
Up until this day, my employer believes I am talented even though I do not think so myself - because of what I graduated with. This is enough for me to feel more confident about myself and my career goals. Even my previous professor didn't think 2.8 was that bad! It's a B- :)
Here's another story: a friend of mine graduated with a 3.5 GPA (or higher)...she didn't find a job until 4 months later after graduation as well. I saw her resume and it looked impressive, I just didn't understand why it took her so long.
If you're not too keen on large/competitive companies, I would think you have just as much of a chance of landing a job as a student who graduates with a 3.5 and above.
Good luck!
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Up in Canada (and many other places) we use a % based grading system, what is the history and purpose of the 4 point GPA system?
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
TTFN
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
My sister's high school switched to some kind of unusual system (I forget exactly what) in which the numbers came out looking lower for a certain performance level than for most other high schools. Surprise, surprise--hardly anyone that year got into really good universities. No one reads the fine print.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Most people even with poor GPA in school they excell in their carrears,There are many instances where people with lower grades performing much better in job interviews.
My advice to you is to try and develop confidence in yourself and have a mindset that you will succeed.
Good luck.
Abba7114
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I wonder how many of us here who hire/have hired university/college graduates (people without professional experience), have also used a "cutoff" rule (eg GPA above 2.9 only) to reduce all the resumes that comes across our desk, to determine who we interview?
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
For the same reason I don't do standarised tests very well, without a clear background/framework to the question I cannot properly evaluate the problem. I think it's b/c I cannot accept the logic the question is trying to force on me, I intuitively know that a beam cannot hover in midair with forces acting on it, I need to know what the beam is attached to b/c I know that it relates to the answer.
Hopefully I'm not the only freak who thinks this way :)
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
Be confident....you can do it.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I don't think that anyone has suggested that a 2.5 is more desirable than a 3.5. However, for some companies a 3.5 isn't always more desirable than a 2.5 either. The GPA is just another tool to pick the right person. Some companies use it to pare down the pile of resumes, some don't care. I am sure that a lot of companies have passed over some excellent candidates because their GPA was too low (or too high) but they have always found someone they thought was a good fit. Sometimes they are wrong, there's no perfect system. As an example, when I was interviewing with companies after my MS, one company (who I thought sounded really cool-defense contractor) asked me in my interview if I had ever received any D grades in my classes and why. I explained to him why I thought I had not done well enough in the couple classes where I received D's. It seemed like that interview was cut very short. The other companies I interviewed with never even asked for a transcript. I can't imagine a better fit for me than my current job and the D I got in Physical Chemistry will not be noticed by my boss (but it still dragged down my GPA a little).
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
If you have a low gpa from doing the bare minimum to pass the courses mixed with poor study habits: You'll be just fine in landing a job (although perhaps not as quickly as those with higher gpa's) and establishing a career as you've probably developed good social interaction skills from spending too much time in bars and chasing women.
If you have a low gpa because you truly lack the mental capacity to understand and apply engineering priciples and concepts no matter how much you study....then don't expect to land a job anytime soon.
*Put the laziest man on the hardest job....and he'll find the fastest way to get it done.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
IMHO, it depends on what the GPA is measuring and what the courses taken are and who the students holding the GPA are. I don't know how true this is but some schools use certain courses for grad work while others use the same courses for undergrad work.
If GPA measures how well one understands the basic concepts of engineering, tell me why is it that a (engineering) classmate of mine with a 3.5 GPA had a hard time trying to explain the basic concept of engineering to me? Her answer was "I don't know why the solution is that, it just is". Either I've been asking way too complicated questions or she just had no idea what I was talking about.
I have a low GPA, how hard of a question would it be asked by someone like me?
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
The social aspect is definitely key in many ways, and likely means more than the GPA. You have graduated, so you have shown competence. When you get to the interview, you need to show you are socially competent to be able to work among the rest of us.
I was flown out to an interview, with my 2.? GPA, and following the interview was told, “You seem normal.” Three weeks later, I was moving to start my new job.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
i think that's more cliche..the times i've actually known someone, it never really made a difference. i've gotten more interviews and interest from jobs advertised (even on monster) than any other source..of course the pool of applicants was incredibly huge though.
RE: Graduating soon but with poor GPA...
I've had 4 jobs. The first I found via a campus interview. The rest all came from networking.
Somewhere there's a statistic on how many people had to turn down a job before it ended up in the want ads. It certainly encouraged me to find the inside track.
-b