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Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?
15

Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

(OP)
I've started a new job and not sure if I'm quite fitting in.  Although it's only been about two weeks - I'm wondering if I'm getting a rep of a geeky keener.  Kinda like Martin from the Simpsons.

Anyways, I'm not sure what to do.  I really enjoy what I do (mechanical design) and I do it well.

Should I just get over it and move on?  Anyone with similar stories?

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

2
Shut up.

Let other people talk.  People like to talk about themselves.

Don't let out too many personal details in your first few weeks of acquaintance.  Don't let on about your obsessions.

Don't play reindeer games until you're sure you're one of the reindeer.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

I agree. I have been going thru the same thing. Take the time to learn as much as you can. You may not know it, but they are watching to see what you do and say. It's normal.
Figure out how the dept works, figure out how you can make something better, then spring it on them!

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

designgeek,
Good advice from both the tick and ctopher.  It would benefit you greatly to observe your fellow employees interaction and for you to spend a lot of time watching and listening.  If a work related social event comes around, watch your alcohol intake :0). BTW, what's a geeky keener?
Regards,
RLS

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Everybody gets a hard time and takes some ribbing as the new guy.  Sometimes people will bug you just to be funny, break the ice, see what you can handle, or see if you'll laugh along and take it and be "one of the guys".  There's all sorts of reasons, both good and bad.  I'd laugh when you can and take everything with a grain of salt so to speak.  As long as it doesn't turn into harassment of the sort that gives you an ulcer, it usually goes away after a while, though it may be a while indeed.  Most of the time in my experience they just want to see if you're just "one of the guys" or if you'll turn your nose up at them and take everything to heart unnecessarily.

Listen to what they talk about when it isn't work related.  If it's something you can join in on, do so if you can. Just remember, it isn't highschool anymore and you weren't hired so you can impress your coworkers.  If they like you, fine.  If not, they know where they can go.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

You don't know who your enemies are yet, which should be reason enough to keep quiet.

On the other hand, you also have "New Guy Mojo".  If you know what you are doing, and can demonstrate it (as opposed to talking about it), you can make things happen.  E.g., chances are that the incumbents have been moaning about the lack of some new and better and expensive tool, which The Boss has resisted acquiring for whatever reason.  E.g. some CAD add-on, or some hand tools for the engineering department, a decent chair to replace the terrible one you were stuck with, whatever.  You may be able to get it by the simple expedient of asking for it, if you can come up with a defensible justification.

Act quickly; your New Guy Mojo expires when the next New Guy shows up.  winky smile



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

(OP)
Great feedback - I appreciate the comments.  My definition of the geeky keener is a person who seems nice enough but lags a bit on a social level.  The keener aspect is a person who is a hard-worker and always striving to do better.  So put the two together and we have a hard-working nerd.
I am aware that I'm new and have no history but it feels discouraging and alarming to see a familiar pattern that I would like to change.
I'm the guy who is always raising the bar.  I do it because:
a.  I feel that it is the right thing to do - continuous improvement
b.  To prove myself to my colleagues and manager

Ultimately, I know that this is business and as long as I keeping doing good work - I should be ok.  However, I really want to get along and fit in.  I don't like being the isolated brainer - done it too many times.  Is this the way the is or am I missing something?

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

"I'm the guy who is always raising the bar. "

Probably not a quick path to popularity, with your coworkers at least.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Quote (designgeek):

I'm the guy who is always raising the bar.  I do it because:
a.  I feel that it is the right thing to do - continuous improvement
b.  To prove myself to my colleagues and manager

I agree with Greg. A new comer who comes in "raising the bar" gets interpreted to "new comer with uppity". Think of it this way - how would you react to the next new guy doing what you are currently doing (after you have been there for 5 years)?

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

I'm the guy who is ALWAYS raising the bar.  Note the word ALWAYS.  It's a continuous process.

Having said that I tend to agree with Greg and Ashereng.  I do end up having problems with my co-workers all along because of this single reason.  However, I continue to raise the bar, nevertheless !!!

HVAC68

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

designgeek,
If you are starting to see an undesirable pattern then you need to engage in some introspection or, better yet, find someone to bluntly tell you what it is about you or what you do that your colleagues find irritating/annoying/disturbing, etc., as the case may be.  Granted, work is not a popularity contest but what your coworkers think of you will affect how they deal with you ( or not, as the case may be ) and this will bear directly on your success or failure.  People can easily misinterpret your intentions in a negative way.  You can be the best engineer at your workplace which will count for nothing if your colleagues and manager don't see you as part of the "team". Sad but true, it's part of the game and everyone has to play.  
Regards,
RLS

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

If you are trying to fit in as part of the group socially it can be a bit difficult.  Group dynamics can quickly change.  If you use a "divide and conquer" approach and spend one on one time conversing with some co-workers, you may establish some common interests or background.  If you can do this with a few people within your group, you may find yourself "accepted" and you have eased your way "in".

Regards,

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Don't play reindeer games until you're sure you're one of the reindeer. - The Tick

That's good advice.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Or  - be a contractor and avoid the office politics all together!

Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Take members of your group to lunch one or two at a time and make a point to not talk shop. Ask them how they got there, what their previous jobs were, do they have family in the area, etc. etc.  Then listen.

ZCP
www.phoenix-engineer.com

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Designgeek,
You said

" I don't like being the isolated brainer - done it too many times."

So you have been at your new job for about 2 weeks and already know you are the "brainer"?  Well, that attitude is probably smelling up the place.  There is probably a slim chance that 1 or 2 other people in the office has the knowledge and experience to help you with your continious improvement.  

When you are "the guy who is always raising the bar", how are you doing it?  At the expense of your co-workers?  Are you working with or in competition with your co-workers?  Your boss has a "team", do you see yourself as the "new QB" or "new lineman protecting the QB"?

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

(OP)
When it comes to design - it is something that I do well.  My designs usually:
a. work
b. are easy to make
c. are easy to assemble
d. look good
I also have good CAD/computer skills that enable me to do all of this relatively quickly.  It is in this manner that I feel that I raise the bar - by doing good work quickly.
When it comes to attitude - I keep a close watch on myself to ensure that it is the best design that goes through and not just my design.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

designgeek,

In the end, it is up to you how you work, what you do and how you want to fit in with your coworkers.

If like HVAC68, "raising the bar" is important to you, keep raising the bar - even at  the expense of your relationship with your coworkers.

If you want a better working relationship with your coworkers, and your current approach doesn't work, I would suggest you try a different approach.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

3
Two weeks (starting on three) is not enough time to start "raising the bar" at any company, in any position.  The first 90-days should be used to learn your job duties, job expectations and office politics.  When I read this statement in the context it is presented here, I interpret it coming from someone that has a diva complex.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Bright ideas are a dime a dozen. The ability to carry out those ideas is rare. Once you criticize the way things are done, be prepared to put in the effort to change it, and not expect someone else to do it and give you the credit. Old timers have heard it all - raising the bar, thinking outside the box, and on and on and on. They have seen a lot of hot shots come and go. Every company has its own culture that you have to accommodate if you want to survive, and getting a working knowledge of a product and getting used to the people takes much longer than a few weeks.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

(OP)
Thanks again for all the feedback.  I've since adjusted my behavior somewhat and have devoted more energy to developing relationships.  Probably the best thing I can share from my experience is to remember to smile, ask and listen.  Thanks to Ashereng for reminding me that I have a choice in how I want to work.  Things are already improving. thumbsup2

As for the diva comment - no diva here, been there before so I know what I'm talking about.  When it comes to design, I care about what I do and I put in the effort to make sure it works out for everybody.

I agree that 2-3 weeks isn't very long but I've done this type of work for sometime and I have pretty good bead on what is expected.  Every company has its quirks but the work itself is pretty much the same.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

You're welcome.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Get some of the popular press books on how to make small talk.

Follow their advice and make appropriate small talk at coffee and other appropriate times, keep it to work at other times.

Get at least a passing amount of information on sports, especially the chances/performance of the local pro teams because that’s always good fodder for small talk.

Remember that small talk helps people relate to you as a person and this is what makes work relationships not only functional but enjoyable.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Keep quite and let people think your dumb.  When they discover your a genius they will believe it and accept you.  
If you tell them how brilliant you are they may come to belive it but may never accept you.
There is a world of addages and sayings that cover the situation.  From Letterman, to stuff you read on Starbucks cups, to Will Rogers all the way back to Aseop.  I call it bumper sticker philsophy, even though it predates cars. It's old stuff buy very true. One that comes to mind is "Keep quite and people will think your a fool, open your mouth and you remove all doubt"
I think thats a Will Rodgers quote I found recently in a fortune cookie.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Wisdom form MikeHalloran:
"On the other hand, you also have "New Guy Mojo".  If you know what you are doing, and can demonstrate it (as opposed to talking about it), you can make things happen."

I have observed the new guy with the "new guy mojo" - but who really didn't walk the walk. Don't be that person.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

I agree with BJC.

Nobody likes anyone who assumes that they're the best person in the world.  You are no better than anyone else, that goes from the secretary on up.  If you treat them like you are, then you will never fit in.

And don't talk about yourself, and your great designs.  That should never come up in conversation.  I'm not even sure why it showed up here.

They should see that through your work eventually.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?


BJC,

Quote (Mark Twain):

It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt.

cheers
Helpful SW websites  FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions  FAQ559-1091

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

One bit of advice... don't try too hard, we have a new guy in our office at the moment and he is driving us all nuts because he's trying too hard.

Wants to come in and chat to us all the time, especially first thing in the morning which I can't handle, wants to check everything past me (his boss) before he does it (I have told him just to get on with it) clarifies everything.

Generally trying too hard, it would be better if he just chipped in when asked and tried to behave like the rest of us.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Wow!  I'm reading closely!

I'm a "bar raiser" and find myself being as "arrogant" as you.  Note that I put the term in quotes.  Truth is, a substantial number of people in any workplace (and your boss may well be in that category) always feel threatened by a new co-worker.  I'm sure you well know you'll need to keep an eye looking over your shoulder as well as on the horizon.

You may very well actually surpass many of them in your technical skills, but what you really need to do is surpass them in your people skills.  ....something I wish I could do.

Please let us all know how this works out for you! and don't forget FAQ731-376

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

(OP)
Thanks for the support HCBFlash - it's nice to know that there are others in the same boat.

Anyways, as an update to those who have been following along:

The new guy mojo has run its course.  Things have settled out and this is what different:

I'm now a familiar person and not so scary to the others.  My technical skills are still there but I think people have accepted it and are now used to it (kinda like the price of gas).

Anyways, I find the going slow on the social front which I think is normal.  If I were to start over again - I'm not sure how I would do things again.  Would I go half pace so I don't appear to threatning?  I don't know.  I came in and worked hard right off the bat.  To do so otherwise is seems a bit sneaky/shady.  However, if the attitude is to enable others to adjust - maybe it is the better way.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Well, it looks like it is working out. Your co-workers seem to have given you the benefit of their doubt. You are lucky.


What you do, and how you do it are 2 very different things.

I teach my children to work hard, to improve, to become better. I also teach them not to brag. Having success is good. Saying "This is so easy." is bragging.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."   Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

Something that I pass along to new graduates that I haven't seen mentioned here specifically is:

Understand the problem at hand thoroughly before speaking and never, never agree with the last opinion offered unless it is, in fact, the best choice because in the end people will remember that during any previuos discussions your opinion was only based on the last one offered and that is hardly anything to be valued for.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

3
Oh yes. I know you. I work with 2 of you - well, used to. You come in with the above described attitute - "I always raise the bar, and nobody likes me because of that". Does it ever occur to you that not everyone else is a slacker, and that many people actually likes having the bar raised? Eh, yes, but not in the way they're made to feel inferior by the "geeky keener" who looks down at everybody. Specially people that have been there for a substantially longer period of time. If you come to an older engineer respectfully, they'll teach you a whole lot. If you come with YOUR attitute, they'll revel in the mistakes the new guy makes, and sometimes even help you MAKE those mistakes! And heavens forbid let such a person into the Production area, he might find his foot welded to the floor! (Happened in my firm, too!). Such people often end up isolated, which I guess you've noticed by now - how suddenly there's no one at your lunch table? And the boss gets puzzled too - "I brought this guy who knows so much yet everyone's consulting manuals rather than asking him a simple question he could easily answer!". Such people are brilliant, but of little use to themselves or the firm, which is a great pity.

Fitting into the social structure of the firm is VERY important for engineers, as we're supposed to work as a team and fill in for each other. Some practical advice: never be the 5th monkey, but when in a new enviroment, first look into how things are done there and only THEN, and IF you're sure you have a better idea, try and change it. If you look at people from a slightly less godly standpoint, you might actually see not everyone's an idiot and even learn something new and good. Also, if you ned for people, people will bend for you.
Never talk work during break. That's why it's called a "break": it's when you DON'T work. Talk about unimportant things, and keep them such. If you find a fellow Rolling Stones fan, don't murder the guy by sharing the info on how often Mick Jagger clips his toenails. Let people talk about themselves and their interests, and keep your info inflow low: that'll keep people interested, and give them time to get to know you.
Always take advice seriously. When offered advice from an older colleague, don't reply with "yes, but...".
NEVER come ask for advice on a thing you know how to do, only so you could say "yes, but.." and show off your knowledge. Aside of devaluing people, you're wasting their time.
Last but not least: when in a new enviroment, nobody KNOWS you. They don't know you were a social outcast in your last firm. They don't know you were considered a "geeky keener". They don't know you. You HAVE no reputation. Just don't GIVE yourself one.

Sorry to be sharp and long, in essence I hope I helped a bit.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

TurbFluid's is perfect

And...

"My technical skills are still there but I think people have accepted it and are now used to it (kinda like the price of gas)."

I love that...ha


RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

It's normal to want to prove yourself to your new employer and co-workers, and it's also common to stick out like a sore thumb, but you will adjust to the social structure (hopefully) and get into the groove. I'm not saying that conformance is great, but it does make things easier.
Ie. there will be less resistance to your attempts to "raise the bar" if you're seen as 'one of the guys' than if you're seen as an outsider.

If you're a naturally quiet guy and the place is full of loud happy people, it doesn't hurt to see the world from a different perspective either.

Also remember that you spend more time with your co-workers than you do with your family, so getting along is paramount. A quick way to get into the cliques is to buy into the office betting pool (if one is available), then read up a bit on the teams and join into some of the discussions that arise on the topic.

I learn't the hard way, that all the crap they teach you in school gives you the tools to solve a problem but that your social skills ALLOW you to solve a problem.

RE: Fitting in at work - any suggestions for the newbie?

(OP)
Turbfluid:  Thanks for the advice - although a bit on the seething side, blunt honesty is efficient at sending the message.  More importantly however, is that it is well intended and again, I do appreciate the advice.

Reflecting again on my present work situation - I know that when I first started, I came aggressively.  Unfamiliar territory, no history, I felt a bit insecure and hence, hammered out some space.  Although I still feel I did it legitimately (skill and hard work), I was maybe a bit - blunt - in my methods.

Looking back at my dumb self - I should have been more relaxed and confident in myself.  Shouldn't have to prove anything to anybody - things will eventually come to light.

Oh well, live and learn.  Things are fine now at work, but in the true spirit of constant improvement:
1.  I should probably smile more big smile
2.  I should remind myself that I'm not the only one who is trying to make a living pipe
3.  I should not take for granted peoples personalities and enjoy them for who they are (wise words from ziggy medal)

Anyways, thanks again for the feedback

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