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Do you believe in the 5 year rule?
16

Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

(OP)

In school it was the most commonly given piece of advice from teachers: "Stay at your first job for 5 years, then start looking for a new job if you want to".

Anyone have any real world proof that shows the advantages of following that rule or the disadvantages of breaking it?

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I'll only give this bit of information.

I get a standard 4% raise each year no matter how well I perform.  I can change jobs, and get a 10% increase in salary for the move, then start my 4% average again.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

5
This from tenured teachers waitng around fattening their meager pensions.  Credible source, that.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I don't think teachers would get a 10% increase by changing jobs.  These days, they would be lucky if they didn't get a 10% decrease.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I can only wish!  After getting downsized from the first 3 positions (after 1 year or less) I held after college, I went into contracting.  (Maybe not ideal, but I control my own fate.)

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Worked for my first company for 3 years... then began contracting... Havn't looked back since... No "real" job security (but where do you get that anyway)... Only work on projects I find interesting. With people I like... Otherwise, there IS another job waiting... And I've gotten a good range of experience on many different products...

Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

IMO, it depends on what industry you work in.
You can work for 5 yrs, move on and get 10%. I got 25% when moving on after 11 yrs. If you stay at a company and get a couple degrees while there, usually you will not get a raise (or a low raise) based on schooling. You have to move on and maybe come back to make more $$.
I say work at a couple companies to gain experience before you settle in with a company you like.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I really don't think you can speak in absolutes like that.  If your first job makes you miserable, and you're going nowhere, what good does it do to stay?  I left my first job after 4 1/2 years (almost 5), but really should have left earlier, because it wasn't really preparing me like it should have, and I didn't get along with my boss.  At the next job, I rediscovered why I got into engineering in the first place, and it was fun again.  I guess I'm trying to say it doesn't take 5 years to know if a job suits you or not.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I've got just under three years now and I'm at my third job, I was laid off from the first two after about a year in each. I took a pay decrease to land the second job, but the work was much much more interesting, I then got about a 10% increase when I joined my present employer and the work is just as interesting.
From my own experience and from what I hear from other engineers, the old adage about a rolling stone is tripe, the majority encourage me to switch jobs often (about 2 to three years in between until I reach a respectable level of experience) to get good pay and varied experience.

As for teachers, here in Canada the schools are fighting over them, the pay's not super but the perks and benefits are.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Some more serious thoughts on the subject...
  • 3 years is about the minimum to not look like a "job hopper"
  • Stay as long as you are advancing by learning, growing, getting promoted, getting raises
  • Leave when too many of these things don't happen
  • When you do leave, GO SOMEWHERE.  Be sure you are "going to", not "running from" or (worse) "drifting off".

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Before I would take that advice or any advice from my college instructors I would have to look at their track record.  Are they fossilized in the halls of academia or have they really been in industry.

I stayed at my first job for a year.  I loved the work but the company was stuck in the stoneages.  I've had a lot of jobs since I graduated but it seems I've been on the downsize of certain industries.  I got caught in the defense downturn in 1998 and the semiconductor equipment downturn in late 2000.  Then I got stung by 9/11.  My resume' looks somewhat like a "job hopper" but I've aquired a lot of solid experience as a result.
 

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I always followed the 3 rule, along with the education rule.

The education rule: If you are not learning anything at your current employer, it is time to start looking.  Maybe not looking hard, but just keeping the ears open.

The 3 rule, at any given company you can only be promoted 3 times.  Once you reach that plateua you will probably not be promoted above that in any significant amount of time.  Once you have the 3 rule, it is time to start looking for a lateral or vertical move at another company.

I also had somebody tell me once that you will learn everything that a company can teach you in 2 years.  After that it is time to move on also, although he worked for a contracting agency so I took it with a grain of salt.
But it does seem to be true.

Vertical moves from one company to another are tough, but still feasable.

As far as money is concerned I have learned that in engineering business, two guys who do the same thing everyday, who even sit in the same office, could be getting wildely different pay ranges.  It is all about what you can negotiate.

Cadnutcase
Please excuse all spelling mistakes.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

3
It's not all about the money.  I have been working for the same company for over 9 years.  I could most likely be earning more if I changed companies.  I haven't because I work for a great company and I have teriffic bosses.  I'd rather enjoy my job then the paycheck.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I think the five year mark is not really for us to contemplate, it is the company’s.  If you look at job offers, one of the requirements the company is looking for is five years of experience (or more) in a skill the company wants.  If you don’t have it, most likely your resume will not be considered.  HR and Assistant Administrators will use any criteria to filter hundreds of resumes before giving them to the hiring manager.  

So from a company’s point of view, if you can stick it out for the five years that will be great, if you can’t then the previous suggestions from other posters apply.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

5 ys is about the time you earn the PE license.  It is good time to evaluate your long term plans.  If your 8-10 yr plan is clear at 5  yrs, then take the path that will get you close to your goal, even it means staying aboard 3 more yrs.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Change a job if there's a need, not because you have completed 5 years in the present one !!!

Change if you stagnate, both in terms of learning or growth or both.

HVAC68

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I believe the 5 year rule.

It took me just about 5 years to realise what bits of my first job I liked and what bits I was good at.  The overlap was ok, but not satisfactory.  Employers should realise that keeping someone in a job just because they are good at it is not a good strategy for staff retention.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I think 3 years is about a good time. 5 years is a bit too long IMO, unless you have a good place on a very attractive project, which is, you have to admit, very rare for a first job...

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

4
It is not a RULE. It was someone's opinion.

You can ask for other people's opinion. Then, you still need to evaluate your situation yourself, and determine what you should do.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Three years is when I have found myself getting the itch to leave, mostly because my ceiling was reached and there was no further room for growth.  Of course, if you are absolutely miserable in a job then you should move on no matter how long you have been there.  But no matter how miserable a job, you should always learn something about yourself and take that information with you to your new job.  That is growth.  

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I have had three jobs in the last 5 years and am getting ready to start looking again.

Job #1 - moved because I didn't like the particular brand of construction work we were doing, and couldn't see myself spending a career doing it.

Job#2 - Government work.  I used the job for their inherent slackness and excellent PE training program, and then moved on.

Job#3 - Current job.  No real opportunity for advancement.  Inept boss.  Small 401k contribution.  Little exposure to growth opportunities.  I'll be starting to look soon.

I have never had a problem finding a job, even though I am a job-hopper.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I believe in the 12 inch rule...

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Quote:

"I have never had a problem finding a job, even though I am a job-hopper."
On the other hand, Proletariat, the jobs you've found don't seem to have given you much satisfaction.
 
A history of "didn't like the type of work we were doing" and "I used the job for their inherent slackness and excellent PE training program, and then moved on." will ring alarm bells even in the mind of the most incompetent HR.
Just how do you explain your career history convincingly at interviews?

I would think you need to leven this history with some solid time somewhere that will generate some respect.
There is no doubt that having some good time in at a prestigious company does open doors but getting that prestigious company into your career history is the problem.

The really tough part about job finding is to find one you'd be happy at for a long time.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I can't figure out how to do the nifty quote box, but in response to the question above...

I am slightly more tactful in an actual interview, and tend to leave out the inherent slackness part of my description of government work.  I do actually have some pretty good reasons for leaving each job that go over well in an interview.  I was being cavaleir on this internet message board for effect.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

proletariat,

click on the "Process TGML" link at the bottom of the response window. It will tell you.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

How is leaving for another job after a year 3 times, any different than going to 3 companies who happens to lay you off after a year each time (for legitimate reasons)?

How about someone who is self-employed, and gets 3 one-year contracts with 3 different companies?

I see them as all the same.

I hear lots of my friends, who are managers in companies, and/or are owners of companies, complain that they can't find or keep good people.

My question always is, "Would they have stayed if you increased their compensation by 50% ?".

Their answer, in general, is a version of "Well, I/we can't do that."

My conclusion from the exchange is, you didn't want them enough to do what it took to get/keep them, but someone else did/does.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

It all depends on the opportunity for advancement and other rewards available.  I would never look to leave a place just because the five years were up.  However, my experience has been that employers will only give cost of living type raises.  This does not compensate someone (especially a young engineer) for the knowledge they have gained and will not keep their earnings competitive.  If after four or five years you can increase your "deal" substantially (by looking around) then go for it.  Know your market value.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

"my experience has been that employers will only give cost of living type raises"

The smallest annual raise I have ever had in 20 odd years is inflation plus 2%.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Greg
Exactly, that is why I contract.  I do not like 2.5% raise when my medical premium cost at the same time goes up 3.5%.

I suppose averaged out over the years so far I could have mde the same with a 65k a year full time job but the experience in the different areas of mechanical application is what keeps me doing the contract work.  I get very bored if I sit in one area for a year and dont get to do anything else but what that work group is assigned.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

It is definitely not a "rule", but for me it has worked out that way more often than not.

I did leave my first job after 4 years.  Of course I only spent 6 months at job number 2 before my original employer wanted me back.  I spent another 5 years back at the original company before I left again (for the last time).  

I've been with my current employer approaching 5 years.  Although I'm not itching to leave, when recruiters call me I do listen.  

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Newfella wrote, “However, my experience has been that employers will only give cost of living type raises.  This does not compensate someone (especially a young engineer) for the knowledge they have gained and will not keep their earnings competitive.”

Exactly!  It’s nearly impossible to sell your current employer on who you have become in order to justify a big raise.  To get decent raise you have to sell a potential employer on the illusion of who you are and what you can do for them (solve or fulfill some need) and then move to them.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

Would you pay for a top of the line PC, if all you need was an abacus? I probably won't.

Your employer pays you for the value he/she hopes to derive. What you are capable above that will not be compensated for, although it will be taken advantage of.

Hence, if you want more $$$, you need to find an employer with more needs such that he will be willing to pay more $$$.

My 2 cents' (plus living allowance) worth.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I think the biggest advantage I have gained from hopping is a sense of perspective.  If you spend 10 yrs in one company, how will you ever know what else is out there, and what you are missing out on?  If I spent 10 yrs of misery in my current company, I would probably quit engineering all together.  However, I know that there are greener pastures and my current situation is a temporary one.

My career path up to now has been a soul-searching exercise because I wasn't ready to tread water for 10yrs in the first company that gave me a job.  Now, I have settled on a particular branch of Civil that I like, because it involves interaction with the non-pocket-protector-sporting demographic of society as well as some talented engineers. It took me 5 years of changing jobs to find my niche and I wouldn't have it any other way. Unfortunately, I can't ply my trade to my liking in this current company, so off to the job hunt with me.

The moral of the story is don't settle for unfulfilling work for fear of the "job hopper" label, but don't conform to some arbitrary "5year" rule either.  Search until you get what you're after.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

...  Furthermore, I don't wish to be a wage slave for the rest of my life.  I need about another 7 years before going on my own, but exposure to different business models via hopping will help me approach sole proprietorship with the benefit of that perspective thing I was talking about before.  Remember, you are not only working at a company to learn engineering, but also business, marketing, driving forces within your market, etc.  Look outside the cube once in awhile.

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

I always looked at "Quality of Life" not the money!!

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

These replies all reflect different points of view, and you've got to face the present and future without falling into the "it worked for me" or "it always used to be" trap.

Looking out through the 2 little peepholes I've got, it seems like "outsourcing" and "contracting out" is what we have to deal with right now.  I doubt you can even hang on to a position 5 years,,,, unless it's for a "contractor", but that even looks like a long shot.  Don't let that fact bother you or get you down, or give you an attitude; it's just what the present market appears to be.

Please let us all know how this works out for you! and don't forget FAQ731-376

RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

For me, I did move into another company with similar business as previous one after 5 years.
The reason is that the previous company did not give me anything either promotion nor salary increase when I got my MS degree in same major (Chemical Eng) as part-time student for about 4.5 year including thesis work.
In contrast, the new company do value me and my degree and gave me about 30% increase on basic salary of that of previous company.
Also, they gave me 2 grades more as to fit me well on their org.
In general, I do recommend to looking for a job after sometime (after 4-5 years) if you find it is worthwhile for future and benefits as well.

I wish you all the best for your career

Cheers
SmartEngineer


RE: Do you believe in the 5 year rule?

My history
First post bachelors degree
96- Stayed for 1 year. Liked the actual work, was very upset with a manager who ran another business on company time and delegated additional work to me as a result.

Second job- Stayed 4 years, left to get a graduate degree. Hoped to return but due to a poor economy they didn't honor my return when I thought they would

So I started a second advanced degree. I worked in 3rd Job for a year and half while i continued the other degree.

4th Job- Prestigious Place thread. Been there a year. Another place offered me a job for a second time in my hometown for more money and a significant amount more if you factor in cost of living. I wouldn't have considered any jobs elsewhere, but this one is in my hometown and i know the people who work there. So regrettably I think I'll be leaving my 4th job to go to number 5. Which means in 10 years I'll be on my 5th employer. I'm a little disturbed about this but on the flip side I can't argue the results. I've more than tripled my salary! Partly due to a change in career and the grad degrees.

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