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managementÆs misuse of available resources
10

managementÆs misuse of available resources

managementÆs misuse of available resources

(OP)
This is a link to a story of management’s inability to properly use available resources.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/cvr_ea401.shtml

It’s an extreme example; people died.  The story illustrates a point: management is very often focused on the insignificant much to determent of the big picture and the little people.

I shared this story with my manager.  To no one’s surprise he failed to see the analogy.  They just do not want to hear it and especially not from a tech.


RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

You would think that one of them would have noticed that the autopilot wasn't working, instead of all of that effort with a light bulb.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

Can someone translate that page for the aeronautically illiterate?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

Sounded like rookies. Anyone know what type of airplane it was?

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

(OP)
It was a $30M+  L-1011 Tri-Star.  The pilot had like 30K hours so these guys were not rookies.  It was a top of the line aircraft with a top of the line flight crew.

BTW, the autopilot WAS working.  The autopilot had two modes of operation.  The accident investigation showed that while messing with the light bulb the yoke was bumped knocking it from one mode of autopilot to a second mode of autopilot.

At the end of the transcript the co-pilot is heard noticing that the aircraft was not at the correct altitude; he could see the reflection of their own lights in the swamp just 20 feet below.  By then it was just too late.  They had descended from 2K feet to 0 in abut 4 minutes while messing with the light bulb.

Basically no one was in charge of flying the aircraft; every one was messing with the 20 cent bulb which turned out to be bad and the landing gear was actually down and locked in place.

This just sooooo parallels most of the managers that I know.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

I flew on a L-1011 to Hawaii once. Nice plane.
Yes, I have seen managers like this before also.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

I don't get the original point.

Controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) accidents have been the focus of research for years. It's a non-trivial problem that's been very hard to eliminate.

With the mandate for Enhanced Ground Proximity warning systems over the last few years, the rates will hopefully drop further.

Unfortunately, it probably won't be perfect.

Flying is still the safest form of transportation.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

kontiki99,

I think point is that everyone including the guy whose job it was to fly the plane was messing about with the lightbulb instead of fulfilling their own roles to a high standard. Take a terrestrial equivalent from the real world where the MD and the senior managers spend all day pondering about trivia such as what colour to paint the factory gate while the company loses all its orders because the manufacturing equipment is broken down and the disgruntled staff are threatening to strike. Did the gate (or the lightbulb) really matter that much in the great scheme of things?

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

(OP)
The point of the story is the abject mismanagement of available resources.  While management was focusing on a 20 cent bulb a $30M+ aircraft augered into a swamp.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

Trying to teach a manager like yours is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

It wastes your time...

... and it annoys the pig.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

There are some things in life you just shouldn't try to share with management, not if you want your career to continue forward.
The truth is one of them, humour is another.... colds and flu are OK though.

Management dislike to be confronted with the truth.

At one company i worked they decided that the "Investors in people" program was the way to go because they would get a plaque to put up in reception and would make brownie points with the shareholders and have something to put in the newsletters to the clients.

Unfortunately this program involved a set of outside consultants coming in who actually spoke with the mushrooms.

They found that there was a communications problem. Management could just about handle that concept if it proved that the troops had a problem communicating (or listening). However the consultants discovered the problem lay with the managers and foolishly said so.

End of excercise.
End of consultants.

.... and I'll bet they changed their approach... once they realised who paid their bills.

And, yes, the pigs still just grunt and no one understands them or how they got their positions or how they keep them.

(I am cynical mode a lot these days, anyone else get like that?)

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

jmw,
Basically the method of management, "lead by ignoring your own faults", is the western equivalent of third-world corruption, ie. it stunts company growth and keeps the incompetent in power.
That's why hard a**ed managers appeal to me, they tend to take the company on a strong route, little discussion required, and they tend to eliminate the weeds that don't want to improve themselves and who can't look down past their own pedestals.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

2
boffintech
Of course he doesn't want to hear from you that the way he is doing his job is analogous to killing a plane full of people!
IMHO managers are criticized a bit too easily. Being a manager is not easy at all. If you mess too much with details people say you don't see the big picture, if you focus on the big picture people say you don't care about details. And the "little people" always complain in any case.
Sometimes these people should get some credit for having a lot of responsibility on their shoulders and providing you with a good income. Sure there are bad managers but there are competent ones as well and they deserve to make more than their employees.
(Not that I'm a manager, just in case you'd doubt).

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

I think it's being taken out of context here.

The primary feedback to the crew for determining if the gear was down and locked was the lamp.

So the question was, is it the lamp or the gear?

No doubt there was a backup system that would have required the crew to pull back the rug and remove a coverplate in the passenger cabin, but from a human factors point of view, what they were doing was probably what 100s of pilots have done before.

Systems that issue nusiance alerts because they are known to be unreliable are very dangerous in some environments.

There may have been a requirement for specific procedures that were costly or hugely inconvienent mandated by a regulation over that foolish lamp.

It's a regulated industry, with monitoring and active enforcement.

It did get me curious about the facts, I couldn't find the NTSB report on a fast search.

I'm not defending management sillyness.

I wouldn't pass too harsh a judgement on the crew without more facts.







RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

boffintech, if an employee brought this transcript to my attention, I might say that he/she was the light bulb that should be working, and that I don’t have time to figure out why this article was relevant without running this business into the ground.   

If you want to criticize the way management runs the show where you work, I recommend that you make specific recommendations for improvement.  It does not do much good to try to cryptically criticize your boss through some analogy of a flight crew who lost sight of the big picture.  

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

(OP)
kontiki99 wrote, "So the question was, is it the lamp or the gear?"

And they shouldn't have forgotten to fly the plane while answering this question!

And don't forget they had a 4th person in the cockpit: a aircraft maintenance specialist who was catching a ride home.  The three flight crew guys could and should have FLOWN THE PLANE while the 4th guy fixed the lamp or went below to verify the landing gear was down.

The correct resources were available to correct the problem.  The leader of the group ignored these resources, ignored his primary responsibilities, and crashed the plane.

I think many managers could learn a thing or two from this episode.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

Okay, suppose the boss decides to resume flying the business, and start making good use of his resources, and look around and assess his situation.

He might well wonder why he's paying a tech to read about airplane crashes.

Be careful what you wish for.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

boffintech, I guess EVERYBODY could learn from this episode, not just managers.
And in line with what kontiki wrote, this obviously assumes that from reading this transcript (which I personally don't understand much of) we have a good idea of what happened and why - a pretty doubtful assumption.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

epoisses:

You bring up a valid point.  Those of us in the aviation industry, who have some experience in accident/incident investigation, and have reviewed the NTSB report of this specific accident, have a good idea of what happened and why.  You are entirely correct that anyone who read only this transcript and assumed they knew what happened and why would be quite uninformed.  For example, who amongst us has not snickered when a new media person has attempted to relate a story in our own industry (whatever our own personal industries might be) but were not experts in that particular industry?

That being said, the main point raised by boffintech and others on this forum is that none of the members of that specific flight crew, who were charged with the safe operation of the aircraft, were aware that the aircraft was being operated unsafely due to fixation on a problem.  That is one of the conclusions of the NTSB investigation.

Like all accidents, this one was a chain of related events.  The primary cause (roughly paraphrasing the NTSB conclusions) was the failure of the pilot in command to either personally monitor or clearly delegate the responsibility for monitoring the progress of the aircraft.  Other factors in the chain included the failure to use two specific resources that were appropriate for this incident:  failure to assign the flight engineer the responsibility of determining if the light bulb had failed and could be replaced (the captain and first officer should not have been involved in attempting to change the light bulb with a qualified flight engineer on the crew), and failure to assign a crew member (should have been either the flight engineer, or the first officer, but preferably the flight engineer) to perform the backup procedure of viewing the landing gear status through the view window.

I think what boffintech's original point was intended to be is that whenever managers fixate on the minors but not the majors, all suffer.  Someone has to monitor the overall direction, and getting bogged down in details can be detrimental to a company, just as it was fatal for the people on Eastern flight 401.  However, it was a harsh and non-specific critcism of boffintech's boss, and I can't see a normal human boss responding to that analogy positively.

debodine

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

I would like to clear up one small point made early on by boffintech who said:

"BTW, the autopilot WAS working.  The autopilot had two modes of operation.  The accident investigation showed that while messing with the light bulb the yoke was bumped knocking it from one mode of autopilot to a second mode of autopilot."

While it is true the autopilot was working (I use the term to mean operational as opposed to broken), the statement "second mode of autopilot" could be misleading.  In fact, the autopilot was disconnected when the yoke was bumped by one of the flight crew members while fiddling with the light bulb.  The term disconnected (which could be construed as a "second mode", I suppose) means that the autopilot was disconnected from the servo-mechanisms that actually move the aircraft controls, which returns the aircraft to manual control by the pilot.

Consequently, Eastern flight 401 was then effectively "out of control" in the sense that no human being was controlling it, either manually or through the use of the autopilot.  No one on the flight crew realized the autopilot had been disconnected.  The aircraft, which had been trimmed efficiently by the autopilot before the disconnection, continued to fly smoothly for several more minutes as it imperceptably (to the non-attentive flight crew) lost altitude and finally crashed.

The automatic disconnection of the autopilot was ironically (in this case) a safety improvement so that any time a human being attempted to take control of the aircraft manually (e.g., moved the control wheel) the autopilot would immediately yield control of the aircraft to the pilot.  Historically there have been cases where the autopilot would not reliquish control and the pilot had to fight the autopilot to control the aircraft.

One of the mandatory changes required by the FAA in response to this accident is that autopilot systems are now REQUIRED to visually and audibly alarm ANYTIME the autopilot disconnects no matter what the reason, and the flight crew, to silence the alarm/shut off the visual indication MUST acknowledge this alarm, usually my manually depressing the autopilot disconnect button.

Eastern flight 401 was not equipped (nor was it required to be at that time) with any time of signalling system to alert the flight crew to the fact that the autopilot was disconnected.

Sorry to ramble so, but because I find myself very interested in explanatory posts from knowledgeable persons in other industries, I would hope occasionally someone outside of aviation would benefit from my explanation.

debodine

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

(OP)
Debodine wrote, “However, it was a harsh and non-specific criticism of boffintech's boss, and I can't see a normal human boss responding to that analogy positively.”

In my defense I didn’t preset the story to my boss as a direct criticism.  I presented it to him and his second as a “hey check out this very interesting story” and just left it at that.  However, now and then as appropriate occasions present themselves I mention “little green light” in a not so slightly sardonic tone.  Not for sure if they get my meaning.  Too smartass?

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

boffintech:

Interestingly, unlike my aviation example, now I am the outsider who is not privy to all the facts.  Of course I offered an uninformed and unsolicited opinion without having the context.  I did not mean to sound critical of you, and I apologize that I sounded that way.  Only you are qualified to judge what comments you may use with your managers, as only you and they know your working relationship.

Out of context (from my outsider viewpoint), I thought the story could have negative consequences.  In context (your on the spot viewpoint), it may be entirely appropriate.  I know I occasionally make sardonic (I HOPE they don't sound sarcastic) comments to my boss too!  I often say them in a teasing way, but I confess I definitely intend to influence his thinking patterns when I do.

debodine

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

boffintech , you have recently made three post in the “How to Improve Myself to Get Ahead in My Work” forum.  I recognize that the following statements you made are not given in context; however, it does looks like a pattern.

1.  I shared this story with my manager.  To no one’s surprise he failed to see the analogy.

2.  This just sooooo parallels most of the managers that I know.

3.  in a not so slightly sardonic tone.  Not for sure if they get my meaning.

4.  annual reviews = load of crap

5.  There are lots of categories that I think I should be given a 5 in but I can only get a 3 out of this guy.

6.  and he is sitting there behind his big desk.

Your attitude will shine through most anything you say to your boss.  Do you feel that you have a good attitude when working with your boss?      

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

debodine,

Thanks for taking the time to post the details of that incident. Interesting stuff.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

(OP)
Zapster wrote, "Do you feel that you have a good attitude when working with your boss?"

No.  But not on my part.  I always give 110% to whatever I am assigned, but my potential is definitely overlooked and I am consistently underutilized.  They claim that they want problem solvers and leaders but what they really want is followers, just some one to perform simple repetitive tests.

It's frustrating and not likely to be that much different anywhere else.  At least I know the evils here.  Moving only opens the door to a whole new set of unknown evils.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

boffintech,

Out of interest, do you mind if I ask your age? I am guessing that you are mid-to-late 20's. I'm interested if my guess is somewhere near the mark.

You can't continue to have a "me against the world" attitude toward your manager: he has a boss too and probably has less leeway than you think in many of his decisions. He also has to consider all the people who work for him and he is likely to favour those who help him do his job rather than those who make it harder for him. Maybe he has flaws - I know my manager has, just like I have - but picking on his failings to cover your own won't win you any friends. Pretending that you are perfect without acknowledging that you too have flaws makes you appear arrogant, which will further irritate your manager.

----------------------------------
  I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy it...

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

2
Most criticism of managers comes after the fact and from a very limited viewpoint.

It is always easy to criticize any action after the fact. You have the benefit of how things actually happened and usually more information than the manager had at the same time.

Anyone can be a Monday morning quarterback; real quarterbacks are not quite as common. The guys who are the actual quarterbacks on Sunday afternoons make the big bucks because they usually deliver the goods when it matters rather than talking about it afterwards.

The second criticism is usually limited in scope. Managers have to satisfy if not optimize many different variables and players. Someone looking at any one of these variables will always say that the result could have been better for that variable. This of course ignores the decrease in the result for any of the other variables and will often be a less satisfactory result once all factors are taken into account.

Good managers are worth every penny they get. If managing was as easy as the detractors claim then anyone could do the job and a manager would be paid less than a worker engineer.

Since there are many fewer managers than engineers out there and they generally get paid more than engineers I can only conclude that managers are worth more than and are rarer than engineers.

Yes I am a manager.

Yes I have an MBA

And finally yes I think that my job is harder and riskier than being a technical engineer and the extra money I earn is small compensation for the extra training, effort and personal risk that I undertake but I like doing it because through effectively managing the resources available to me I can increase the benefits of the result for all involved and get more personal satisfaction from being a key player in delivering a finished project.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

Excellent RDK Response.

I had frustrations somewhere during my 5th year of employment. I decided to learn about business instead of complaining about it. I negotiated a MBA degree, and found out "WHY" they make the decisions they make.

Boffintec.... I have learned one very important thing in the last 20-years... now pay attention:

      ATTITUDE is 80% of success.

I don't care how good an engineer you are; come in with a bad attitude, and I'll show you the door.

Charlie
www.facsco.com

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

I agree with FACS, there's plenty of people to wave their hands telling everyone how things "should" be.

The worst of the lot take advantage of critical moments to stage showdowns when the resources are spread thin.

I call them blazing saddles hostages, do it my way now or:

- our company gets it
- our customers get it
- our I kill our business opportunity
- I snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
etc.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

I agree with FACS RDK and kontiki99.  BUT there are those dumb*** Managers who are where they are simply due to being there the longest or because they work best on their knees.  There is no hope nor resolution for those.  Nor are they better educated or better trained.  Often the company gets by despite that lot, they are almost always oblivious even when provided data (truth).  Often it seems that the good people left because they could, those guys couldn't or wouldn't.
  
I like to think I was one that could (and did)!

My new group has their faults as well, as we all do.  I also feel that part of being effective as a leader and as an Engineer, is knowing and accepting ones own limitations.  Some Managers are oblivious, even some well educated ones, some not all.  The Pointy Hair Boss came from somewhere.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

Sure the Pointy Hais Boss came from somewhere, but does he represents the average manager or is he a projection of the average frustrated underperforming employee?

I used to like Dilbert a lot until I became a team leader myself and found out that things are not as easy as they seemed. Managers should be judged by their results (department financial and HSE results), not by our own subjective motivational thermometer.

IMHO if one can't manage to have an effective working relationship with one's boss, how could one ever effectively manage a team or an organisation?

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

The Peter Principle is real.  

It's a lovely rosy picture that we should never question authority because they have the full picture and we don't, but it's crap.  

(My second statement applies to both management and government.)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

we SHOULD question authority
even if we don't have the full picture
because they don't either

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

When I see the jobs that my manager (and his for that matter) do, I just feel glad that someone likes that kind of work.  I don't!

From personal experience, "pointy-haired" managers tend to fill ill-defined roles.  Like HR, QA, Strategy, Marketing, etc.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

The managers aren't the ones at my workplace that get to go to all the dangerous parts of NYC like they send me to (unescorted). They get to sit at their desks in a comfortable office while I'm alone in a combat zone. Yes, their jobs are difficult, but they sometimes utilize WW2 Soviet Army style tactics like sending the troops on suicide missions, so that they instead don't get shot for cowardice. Who's job do you think is more dangerous (mine) and guess who makes more money? (They do).

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

I suppose I do go into a "combat zone" sometimes.  But it's always clear that as a mere techie, I'm not cleared for policy decisions.  And my bosses do realise that and come with me when required.  Fortunately there's nothing mortally dangerous in my line of work.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

Quote:

Since there are many fewer managers than engineers out there and they generally get paid more than engineers I can only conclude that managers are worth more than and are rarer than engineers.

Justification? What is the basis for the conclusion?

In an ideal world, maybe. Or perhaps the adjective "good" is missing from that description in which case "hens teeth" is also missing.

If there are more management positions than there are ideal candidates, then some of those positions get filled with idiots. This is true with any profession and at any level.
Of course, the Management Rule Book is supposed to control their every action but it doesn't stop them being idiots.

Example:
I spent two-three years on a new product development, managing every aspect of it, frequently working a full week at the office and then flying out to the clients test site for 5 or 6 weekends on the trot as it went into the 18000 hr test phase.
At the final meeting with the client (you'll all know the name)who fielded both their Technical Managers and their Purchasing Manager(and the fact that purchasing was there is a favourable indicator) our "pointy haired" ones were present in battalion strength complete with the local agent through whom they routed the final proposal.

A global, single source deal and the Business Manager (who had to front this to the board for investment) and the Regional Sales Manager had no idea what price the local agent had put on the deal.

After I gave a technical summary, their technical guys said very simply, "We have approved this equipment for use on our machines."
The purchasing manager then said: "We are prepared to pay 6000 per unit."

Even an idiot ought to recognise that as two buying signals and a price objection... but apparently there are degrees of idiocy.

The pointy hairs got up and left in a huff and never looked back.

The project was based around the client saying "we'd be prepared to go to 6000" right at the start.
This meant we could accept the 6000 (and maybe cut the agents throat, as they should have done anyway, if they didn't want to share) and still make their xx% margin if they cared enough to negotiate.

It took me two years to get back in without the pointy haired ones and close the deal at a price comfortably higher than 6000, and about what I had originally projected.

I'd had to wait out two business managers: the one from the meeting got promoted and his replacement (corporate merger in between) retired.

Each years delay in getting to market represents losing around 30% of the lifetime profits (The Engineer).
This delay allowed the competition back in to the market when they should have gone under.
So these guys wasted four years of my life and two years time to market (we are talking millions lost and I don't mean Turkish lira).

Dilbert has it spot on.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

My wife didn't like "Dilbert" the TV show because it was too dark.

I found it too real.

;---

I worked for ten years on an entirely new product, only to watch the third generation prototypes (that, at last, worked perfectly) go into the dumpster.  We're talking billions of dollars lost, and hundreds of thousand of lives not saved from a painful early death.  The market is still unserved, but the basic patents have run out, so now there's no way to recover an investment.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

When my wife asks what I do at work, I tell her to watch the Dilbert TV show or read the comic strip, she thinks I'm just kidding....little does she know.

RE: managementÆs misuse of available resources

ewh,
yes, and there are some good managers, I know, I have, briefly met two before they were fast-tracked to a higher plane.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

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