Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
(OP)
I am a structural engineer, so above ground pipe systems are not part of my everday expertise. I am hoping some people here can help me with thier experiences/expertise.
I am planning to use a reinforced concrete saddle (Pipe)support for the piers on my project. I was wondering what others have done between the concrete saddle and steel pipe to allow for movement. The M-11 code simply states "several layers of felt with graphite between" or "joint filler material". I am not particually found of either of these as I see them "walking out" (or falling off) eventually. Any Ideas? What have you called for on your projects? Total movement I'm expecting is about 1.5".
Thanks,
I am planning to use a reinforced concrete saddle (Pipe)support for the piers on my project. I was wondering what others have done between the concrete saddle and steel pipe to allow for movement. The M-11 code simply states "several layers of felt with graphite between" or "joint filler material". I am not particually found of either of these as I see them "walking out" (or falling off) eventually. Any Ideas? What have you called for on your projects? Total movement I'm expecting is about 1.5".
Thanks,





RE: Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
MSS SP-58-2002 Pipe Hangers and Supports - Materials, Design and Manufacture Manufacturers Standardization Society.
RE: Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
In this regard, I believe there is a whole industry of various "sliding support" designs for piping (that can be searched with Google or other search engines) spawned in this sort of design middle ground. While I am not an expert in such sliding support designs, I would think to absolutely prevent any "walking" of loose padding materials etc. at some level of relative (rebating?) axial movement it would perhaps be necessary to at least partially contain same in the axial direction (with a recessed housing of some sort attached or integral to either the pier pipe or shoe affixed to same etc., and of course also employ low friction, high wear materials in any design sliding zone?) You might want to consider also whatever temperature variations are involved, effects of localized stress on pipe, as well as contact/sliding wear effects whatever the exterior coating system is, and also whatever is happening due to any strap contact and movement as well.
RE: Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
The MSS reference contains a number of standard designs for consideration.
The type 35 may be appropriate. That type consists of an embedded steel plate for the pier. A T section pipe shoe is welded to the pipe and slides on the embedded steel. The design also has guides to prevent lateral movement.
Sliding Supports: MSS SP 58, Type 35. Welded steel attachments to pipe and building structure with Teflon or graphite sliding surfaces bonded to the attachments. Provide steel guides, except at expansion bends, to prevent lateral movement of the pipe.
ht
The pipe roller mentioned by rconner is a type 44. Rollers are normally used only for long piping runs.
Pipe runs are normally securely anchored in the middle of straight pipe runs. The piping is allowed to expand away from the mid points at the ends where the pipe changes direction. On very long straight piping runs, pipe expansion loops are installed at intervals to limit the overall expansion.
RE: Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
In your shoes I would seek the advice of a professional piping engineer. Learn as much as you can from the engineer in the design of the saddles. Next time do it yourself but get the engineer to check it. the third time you can do it yourself.
You do not give sufficient information to enable an engineer to give advice. Even if you did you would be seeking free design. Your company would have no hesitation engaging a lawyer or plumber if they didnt have the expertise in house.
RE: Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
to stainer:
I'll argue that I am not working outside my realm expertise, although true I don't deal with pipe daily. I have an extensive background in hydraulics and personally design structural steel components daily. This is a very simple irrigation pipe with zero internal pressure, in fact its bone dry 8 months of the year. Besides my question was more detail related than technical, plus I did consult our department hydraulics expert and the other local government water engineers. In addition, the owner of the project is "my company". So I don’t need you to recite board rules and regs to me.
RE: Concrete Saddle Support for exposed pipe
The message was not directly aimed at you but the myriad of forum members who sometimes ask questions that plainly demonstrate that they are out of their depth. Your response clarifies the situation and this will be a lesson learnt for those who do wish to go outside the area of expertise. The points I made are still valid.