Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
(OP)
I've been moved to a new group where I work and don't have a computer. My boss said to find one less than $5,000 and he'll buy it.......and pretty much left it at that. I've never spent more than $600 on a machine, so I'm kinda in the dark and he's not one to be bombarded with questions.
So, the best I can tell, I'll be working with Solid Works, ProE, Catilia (sp?), and some other solid modeling programs. In addition, we do R&D and take alot of photos. I know that the few guys who work on this stuff don't do it on their own machines because they are too slow and prefer to use some in another office.
Anyway, what kind of stuff should I look for and, even better, specificaly what do you reccomend I get and where?
Thanks alot - Barry
So, the best I can tell, I'll be working with Solid Works, ProE, Catilia (sp?), and some other solid modeling programs. In addition, we do R&D and take alot of photos. I know that the few guys who work on this stuff don't do it on their own machines because they are too slow and prefer to use some in another office.
Anyway, what kind of stuff should I look for and, even better, specificaly what do you reccomend I get and where?
Thanks alot - Barry






RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Here's some places to start:-
ht
What should I spend my money on? FAQ559-974
http://www.eng-tips.com/faq.cfm?pid=559
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
HeHe ! Your lucky !
How to spend the money wisely.... hmm..
Assuming you are building the system yourself:
mainboard: Anything with a Nforce 4 chipset should be good, but I would recommend Something from DFI. (DFI Lanparty)
CPU : obviuosly a socket 939 type (AMD) most anything will do, But the x2 class with two cores on it would help a lot if you are multitasking. Enables SW to run at 100% on one core while other tasks are performed by the other. SW will not take adwantage of this itself, but you will be able to do other things more efficiently.
Memory: 2 gigs of quality DDR ram. At least pc3200 and CL2
Disks: I would most definitly go for a setup with 3 or 4 disks in raid 5. Prowides exellent speed and security. Go for the most quiet disks , as the raid setup will provide speed and volume without having to by the largest or fastest drives.
Graphics card(s) : Check the solidworks recommended ones. I dont know if SLI ( Scalable Link Interface, enables two cards to share graphics load) is supportet on the nvidia quadro line, but if it is, go for it!
Monitor(s): Dual screen . I love dual screen. I have organized my SW window so that all the tools and the feature tree is on my left screen and my right screen is dedicated to graphic. I will never look back. of course you should go for some kind of lcd monitors with at least 1600x1200 resolution.
Powersupply: At least 400 watt. go for the more expensive ones. DO NOT SAWE MONEY ON THIS ONE.
Cooling : Depends on where your priorities lie, if you want to push your system to the extreme limits, (overclocking) you should go for wathercooling, or; (dribble) phase change cooling. These systems are not at all straight worward to install, so it might not be for you at all. also , with cooling comes noise, so if you are sensitive to that, go for watercooling. it can be a hassle to install, but there is a lot of good complete systems for sale. Alternatively go for the standard Heatsink / Fan for hassle free installation.
Rest of the components : fill up as needed. The top models of the DFI motherboards (and most other Nforce4 cipset based ones) feature raid controllers, sound, and gigabit network, some have dual Gb network.
Best of luck !
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
This was the easy way out. I love it. No researching, no shopping around, no agonizing. Had the computer in less than a week. Most people won't do it that way, though. I'll admit to being slightly nuts.
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
On the dualcore CPU: Sw is not supporting multithreading at present, but might wery well in the future. It might also be benificial for stability, when for instance you start up som process that gobbles up CPU time, like compressing files or whatever, and the process stalls.... then you still can continue on SW as if nothing was going on. Might be far fetched, but I have a feling it would help stability.
This I have not veryfied, but here goes another scenario: I have spent some time converting foregin 3Dmodel files to solidworks parts, and it is extremely timeconsuming, as well as CPU intensive. I have used to start two SW sessions at the same time, letting one do the conversion, and work on the other. I have a single core system, but it allows me to keep on working.... if it automatically wil run on the second core is not tested. Alot of mights an maybees here..
Other than that, You are right on the money, faster single core will give the best performance in pure SW work.
Very interesting to get your view on the matter ! Thanks !
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
http://ww
But if you are going to manipulate the photos and create graphics with Illustrator, Photoshop, etc., I do not know if they will be compatible with a XP 64 bit.
Flores
SW06 SP2.0
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
I have a dual core (AMD X2 4800+). I do a bit of photorendering using PhotoWorks and the dual core definitely decreases render time greatly. I have been able to learn much more lately in photorendering b/c the results to my fussing are given so much quicker. It makes learning PhotoWorks much more enjoyable. It really depends on what you are using your computer for as to whether it makes sense to go dual core or dual CPU. It will be interesting to see how MCAD programs continue over the next few years. I would think there will bit great pressure to structure their code to take advantage of multi-core. Intel and AMD are announcing plans for up to 4 and even 8 cores on a single die by 2008 (I think). Quad core machines may even be here by early 2007. Multi-core cpus are definitely in the future, its just a question of how fast software MCAD companies can re-structure their code to take advantage. Once one announces capabilities in this arena and takes advantage of the extra hrosepower, I would think all MCAD vendors would be forced to compete. As to how soon, its anyone's guess. I'm sure its very complicated as it probably deals with changes to the kernel (parasolid in SolidWork's case, which is owned and developed by UGS). The nature of how geometry is solved in most MCAD programs is history dependent (hence a feature tree), so making that multi-threaded maybe quite a chore, if really possible at all right now. If you can justify the dual core cost, it may not be a bad idea to somewhat future proof your machine. Again, it really depends on what you are doing with your computer.
Pete
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Chris
Systems Analyst
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
I run an AMD 64-bit chip and love the efficiency of bang for buck processing that comes with it. Check out Xi Computer for great workstation packages, since they always fare well in the Cadalyst reviews--usually they take first place.
Others have mentioned important things above--take them into consideration and whatever you do, don't screw up the graphics card choice.
Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reality is no respecter of good intentions.
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
How many parts are your assemblies, how complicated do your parts tend to be, how big are your drawings, where are the files stored? Answers to these questions also help you on where to decide to spend your money - RAM, Processor, Hard Drive, Video Card, etc...
Pete
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Processor - min 3Ghz (go as high as possible for your money and dual processor if money allows)
Hard Drive - Depends on whether you save to network or locally, get a fast 15,000 rpm one if you save locally.
RAM - Min 1GB - Get 2GB if you can
Graphics - This is probably most important. Make sure you get a workstation card (i.e. ATI Quaddro, Nvidia FireGL). Get Min 128MB or ideal 256MB (or 512MB if you want to spoil yourself)
Monitor - Min 19" Flat Panel.
My system is as follows...
Pentium IV 3.2Ghz
Ram - 2GB
Hard Drive - 178GB (15,000rpm)
Graphics - Quaddro Fx 4400 (256MB)
Monitor - 19" Flat Panel
We do large sheet metal assemblies with 1000's of part with no issue. We bought from Dell. Contact there business unit and haggle them down on price. BTW - Don't give your boss any change, spend it all - you might not get an opportunity again!!!
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Ghz is no longer the be all end all... not since the introduction of amd socket A cpu, and that is quite some time a go. here is a rough comparision ... http:
Also, if you consider the price of a top of the line cpu ralative to the performance gain of a mid range, you will find that spending double the amount of money will gain you maybe 20 % performance... If you are lucky... And a 300 dollar AMD cpu will beat a 300 dollar intel specimen senseless...
I have a dell workstation ( quadro fx1000, 3200mhz cpu, 2 GB ram) my self, but it generates a lot of noize, due to the cooling needs of the extremely powerhungry pentium cpu.
A dell workstation would of course be the easy way out, and it gives exellent return for your money, considering the support system, but if you are slightly in to hardware and actually enjoy building your own computer, you will be better off doing it yor self.
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Chris
Systems Analyst
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Working with scan data can be extremely CPU and memory intensive, so I'd go with a new 64 bit system that can bring you beyond the 3GB virtual mem switch in windows.
I got a tour of the new microsoft OS 'vista' which microsoft says they want out by november next year. It uses ribbons, has transparent shells, 3d folders that you can zoom in to see metadata, apps no longer will be able to be based on dpi to get ready for running on huge flatscreens, and it has a little bit of a mac feel. my favorite is when you move or copy files you no longer get that stupid flying paper between folders and a time estimate that is never right. Its pretty sweet and I see a huge possibility for solidworks to really capitilize on thier new os.
Mindnumb, I use dual monitors and tried putting everything on the left and the graphics on the right, but I am so used to the way I had set up my toolbars I found it was slowing me down. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, but I also use Delcam Powermill or Scanning Soft on the right while running SW on the left so it wasn't so conducive to operating both apps with the toolbars in front of the other. I would be interested if you posted a print screen of your setup, or if any of you have a superior setup that you think is the best way to go. Maybe I should start a new thread on this cause I'm kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting to see the way everyone sets up the GUI for themselves.
RFUS
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
A side note... my radeon 9800 card on my 500 MB , 2 Ghz socket A system at home ( softmodded with fireGL drivers ) turns it around a little faster, but that is a single monitor system on 1280x1024 opposed to my 2 x 1600x1200 setup at work.
So... for you guys asking about the geforce cards, and maby the radeon line from ati as well... some of these cards kan be fitted with modified workstation drivers, as the hardware are essentially the same. you have to make thourough invesdtigations to bee sure your card can be modded, but if your in a thight spot economically it would make sense to check it out.
Unmodded standard gaming cards kan be used, but you get issues with decreased performance as the number of windows with assemblies and parts are opened. you will be able to handle quite large assemblies, but only one or two at the time. Also there will be no realview support. there might be other issues with incorrect display of lines and geometry in shaded models or drawings, but the only issue listed on the newest quadro cards aside from no realview support is as follows:
" Limited number of accelerated windows. Amount of video memory determines the number. If 64M - 128M of memory, 3-12 accelerated full screen windows. "
Quote from solidworks website
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
FYI - The only Quadro Card that is not supported is the "NVS" quadro card.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
a non professional card. For some users it might be quite all right, but I
suppose you dont get much help with whatewer issues you have from your SW
dealer/support... Quite understandable...
To summarize : non proffesional card = last option.
Lets just hope for a universal high quality 3d Layer to get rid of the
professional type cards all together. Oh happy day
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
You have to make a critical decision first. Does any of the software you have multitask? SW does not (at least not where it counts). If you don't think you will be running multitasking software go with an AMD64 FX 5x chip. Replace the x with the highest number chip you can afford.
Motherboard. I use ASUS because they are fast and solid. A high end NForce 4 board will do fine. Pay particular attention to memory. Any motherboard has a recommended memory list. Get ECC and registered if you can. Tyan is also good and you can get motherboards that will hold more than 4GB of ram.
Power Supply. I use Antec True Power. This is important. Don't skimp.
Memory. OCZ seems to be the hot item now. Corsair or Mushkin higher end products also work. Again, ECC and registered. Dual Channel. 4GB. Remember you have a 64 bit machine and can use every bit of that if you need.
Hard drive. Forget RAID. Doesn't help performance. A Western Digital Raptor or two is quite sufficient. Comes in 36 and 72 GB varieties.
Graphics. NVidia FX series. Get all you can afford.
Now if you are going multitasking than go with the Opterons. You can get dual core or single core on a multiprocessor motherboard. Let economics determine this. While the plain 4x00 series is fast they aren't as fast as the single core FX5x series. The Opterons are.
Mulitasking motherboard. Get Tyan for the Opterons with PCIe support.
Everything else the same as before.
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
I said:
" the only issue listed on the newest quadro cards aside from no realview support is as follows:
" Limited number of accelerated windows. Amount of video memory determines the number. If 64M - 128M of memory, 3-12 accelerated full screen windows. "
Quote from solidworks website"
Replace "Quadro" with "Nvidia gaming" card. sorry .
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
is Realview only used for doing fully rendered animations that are saved to a .avi file?
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
For what it's worth, I've found this to be a clever way of avoiding down-time and loss of data.
Use two hard drives, not RAID configured--just normal. I prefer SATA, for performance and convenience reasons. Each drive can be swapped on the motherboard to act as the "primary" drive in a pinch.
On each drive, before doing anything else, install your operating system. One is redundant unless you have a drive crash. However, having double installations of your hard drive means virtually no down-time if your system drive crashes or becomes infested with trojans, worms, or other malware. Simply turn off your machine, switch SATA motherboard plugs, and boot on your other hard drive's operating system. From there, you can scan the other drive and properly remove all malware. Shut down and switch back and you're all set to go. If your system drive's operating system is otherwise corrupted, you can at least retrieve data files with no loss of time, since your "data" drive also has an operating system from which you can boot and operate. You cannot employ this method later, since installing Windows will waste whatever is on your drive--so you have to do it from the start.
If you have an entire drive meltdown, enter the other time saving practice. I use a piece of freeware called SyncBack (check out Snapfiles.com ) to copy important data files from one drive to the other (only relevant directories/files are "mirrored") over night. So in case of a drive crash, the most I could lose is a day's work. Monthly (or more often) back-ups are created and cataloged on DVD in case an asteroid hits my office.
I run Seagate and Western Digital. I've never encountered a melted-down Seagate drive, so recommend using them unless your data is completely irrelevant (apply to anyone here? --didn't think so). Each of my drives is fast and has 80GB capacity. Using these practices has kept me from ever losing anything but program/system files--my design files and any other file type I value are always kept intact.
Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reality is no respecter of good intentions.
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
now if you have an entire drive meltdown this will not help, that's when you NEED dual drives.
I have this cd called UBCD4Win that is great if your OS gets messed up with spyware, etc. Your computer boots into a virtual windows right off of the cd, doesn't use your HD at all, just uses your cd-rom drive and you system ram. Works very well and has helped me fix many issues on my pc before without having to totally reinstall windows.
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
I use the Raptor drives because they are fast (fastest) and that precludes the RAID complication. Drive speed doesn't really effect SW performance in any way I can measure though.
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Its Not a must have, but I guess it has given the right wow! factor in a couple of cases. (prowiding a customer with a iso view of a preliminary layout of their pumps/heat-exchangers/ Pipes and a shit-load of valves that actually looks like its all made of steel in a couple of hours after a request somethimes gets the right jaw to drop....)
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
Chris
Systems Analyst
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
I know my card supports it, I have an nVidia Quadro FX 1000
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
(RMB on the nVidia icon in the System Tray)
MERRY CHRISTMAS
(Unabashedly Politically Incorrect)
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
1. Modern raid 1 implementations read roughly twice as fast as a single disk & write like a single disk.
Since your hard drive write speed (for instance the excellent WD raptor 74GB) is about 80% of your read speed you will get a balance of roughly 1:3.6 (write speed : read speed).
This is very close to the average read / write balance I measure at my old man's company (I do all IT stuff there). I used a couple of tools (system monitor & linux monitoring tools on the server) to measure the amount of data their programs read & write and it seems to float a bit above 1:4 (read bytes / written bytes).
2. How much does it cost to install your pc? is it less than the 50-150 bucks of an extra drive?
My current view is that no office pc currently build should do without at least raid1.
Stefan Hamminga
Mesken BV
2005 Certified SolidWorks Professional
Mechanical designer/AI student
RE: Solid Modeling....Need computer buying advice
but wow, once installing this quadro fx 1000 card, the models look soooo much better now, the lines are not choppy or jagged, they are totally smooth and the parts themselves have much better color, reflections, etc. to them. It's like the quadro card did somethign to significantly enhance the lighting scheme in solidworks or something, it's definately a world of difference!