In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
(OP)
I’m sure this is very basic for most of you, but I need to bounce a simple methodology off of you for a sanity check. Up to now my SolidWorks experience has been with part models & bottom up assemblies with very little if any in-context parts. Below is a methodology that I am experimenting with utilizing layout sketches and skeleton planes, but I have run into a snafu.
1. I am creating an assembly model of a progressive die with 3 stations. I created a layout sketch in the assembly model containing three sketch blocks (one for each die block station) the sketch blocks are related to each other to keep them in position. The Layout Sketch in constructed on the Top Plane. This is because the sketch blocks are of the top view of the die block plates.
2. In the assembly I select “Insert Component New Part” to create in-context part when it asks me to select the face or plane I select the Top Plane, this puts me in sketch mode for the new in-context part.
3. I then select one of the sketch blocks in my assembly layout sketch, convert entities, and Extrude Boss Base to a skeleton plane I created for the plate thickness.
I repeat this process for all three stations in my assembly. So far all looks good in the assembly model. Top view, Front view, and Iso view look correct. Here is my problem: When I open any of the part models they are upside down and when I create a drawing and select one of the part models it comes in upside down. I know that in-context always assigns the Front Plane to the plane that I select when prompted when I create the new part, but I am baffled on how to work with this.
Please offer any suggestions if this methodology is flawed or can be improved upon??
Any help to straighten me out is greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the long post
Tom…
1. I am creating an assembly model of a progressive die with 3 stations. I created a layout sketch in the assembly model containing three sketch blocks (one for each die block station) the sketch blocks are related to each other to keep them in position. The Layout Sketch in constructed on the Top Plane. This is because the sketch blocks are of the top view of the die block plates.
2. In the assembly I select “Insert Component New Part” to create in-context part when it asks me to select the face or plane I select the Top Plane, this puts me in sketch mode for the new in-context part.
3. I then select one of the sketch blocks in my assembly layout sketch, convert entities, and Extrude Boss Base to a skeleton plane I created for the plate thickness.
I repeat this process for all three stations in my assembly. So far all looks good in the assembly model. Top view, Front view, and Iso view look correct. Here is my problem: When I open any of the part models they are upside down and when I create a drawing and select one of the part models it comes in upside down. I know that in-context always assigns the Front Plane to the plane that I select when prompted when I create the new part, but I am baffled on how to work with this.
Please offer any suggestions if this methodology is flawed or can be improved upon??
Any help to straighten me out is greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the long post
Tom…






RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
CorBlimeyLimey in your ref thread you said you creates a blank part and insert it into the assembly and then all is ok, I don't quite understand this...please elaborate as it relates to my statement above
Scott, I downloaded your example files and they don't solve my lack of understanding. In your assembly, the Top plane is actually attached to the side of the plate not it's top. This makes SW standard views of the assembly unintuitive, especially with ISO views, where the assembly appears to be tipped up on its side. Maybe the actual plates in your example are indeed viewed correctly, the larger surface is the side and the narrow surface is the top. Scott I appreciate all of your help and its obvious that you are an expert, so I am in no way saying that your example is wrong, I just need to find a solution that works for me. I'm sure it’s staring me in the face, but I don't see it yet.
running fast, but miles to go!!
Tom..
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
You can make a quick test to test that theory.
Start an assembly
add a part
Pick the assembly top plane
make a sketch.
Open the part.
I tested that and that is how it works. if you want the Top plane of the part to be on the top plane of the assembly, you will need to pick the front plane instead of the top.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
What I must do is Select the Front plane when creating in-context parts, but then immediately cancel out of sketch mode and select the top plane and start a new sketch. This way my previously drawn layout sketch will be converted to the top plane and my incontext part is on the front plane where it should be. Problem solved...
you guys are great
tom...
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
I don't like the building my top-down assemblies the way you are doing it, but my purpose was to make automated assemblies. Your Design intent may be different so this will work for you. But the way I list it in my FAQ is what I found to work exceptionally well for me.
Good luck!
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
"What I must do is Select the Front plane when creating in-context parts, but then immediately cancel out of sketch mode and select the top plane and start a new sketch."
Make sure when you select the top plane, you are selecting the top plane of the active part, and not the top plane of the overall assembly. It isn't a real big deal, but that is just another incontext reference that could cause issue down the road.
-Shaggy
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
I was on SolidWorks for a year before it was forcefully brought to the attention of the design group that we were all starting our parts with a sketch on the Top plane, but when it went to the CNC cutting program it took the Z-axis orientation as the top and the parts were coming in sideways. Tghe programmers had to revolve the part and it was a complicated process thet often ended in a crash and had to be redone. So we got used to designing parts "sideways" so they could be machined in the correct orientation.
I love the software, but that has always been a sore point with me.
End of rant. Sorry for the hijack.
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
I have always created assy's btm-up. All parts are created in the orientation they are machined. This makes life easier for the end user...CAM, etc. It also has less problems and headaches, the problem in this thread for example.
Chris
Systems Analyst
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Do you agree?
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
tom..
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
With the above mentioned Top Down methods, the parts geometry may end up nowhere near the origin or main reference planes.
To paraphrase, basically what I am doing is a combination Bottom Up/Top Down design. After inserting & mating the part into an assy, I in-context any geometry which needs it. This eliminates the "In-place" mate & ensures logical part orientation when viewed separately. The In-place mate is very limited in how it can be edited, whereas normal mates can be edited to other types of mate if required. (Coincident to Tangent or Concentric for example).
This is purely a personal preference. The first SW project I worked on involved assembling & mating parts which had been created in another system, then imported & run through the Feature Recognition module. It was a nightmare! Some parts were so far away from the origin, that when the "Zoom to fit" view was used, all that could be seen was the origin in one corner & the part as a tiny dot in another corner. Also when zoomed in on the part, it was at some weird angle which bore no relationship to anything. Since then, I tend to be a bit anal about origin & plane placement.
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
-Shaggy
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Regards
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Maybe somebody has yet a different approach for Prog die design barring purchasing an add-on package.
tom..
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
tom..
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
If you make the parts then place them in the assembly you can place both mates and in-contexted relationships to each of the components.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
I think from all of this it simply sounds like in-context parts are somewhat problematic and I should avoid locking into this if not necessary. If that is true then my only challenge is one of perception with the other AutoCad designers. If I forgo the complete layout sketch it’s tough to see the big picture quickly. Also, my boss likes to review the entire layout prior to modeling anything. I personally do not have an issue with bottom up assembly and is what I have been using for the last year for small modeling projects. Assembly layout sketches just seemed like a good idea because it is similar to our 2d AutoCad methodology. It all boils down to time. If I can submit a basic modeled assembly for review as fast as the AutoCad guys do, then my boss will be happy. I suppose I could draw the complete assembly sketch just for review, and then I could make individual parts from it as I start the modeling process. The only problem with that is I’ll have many copies of the same sketch, one for each part model. Any thoughts???
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Those that are running AutoCAD are profeicent in the software. Those that are new to SW and trying to perform the same process is naturally going to be slower. But once you get your technique down then you will be surprised how much faster it will go. Not to mention the look of the product while you are building. You will see things you never seen in AutoCAD and those things could be benifical to all of you.
In-contexting or top-down design is great for automation and those that need to use geometry to make other Geometry. You can break those relationships with a single icon in the assembly toolbar. "No sketch relations". This away you can use other geometry, but it will not be in-contexted to the geometry you picked.
It sounds like you are making it twice in SW and once in AutoCAD... that just seems wrong to me.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
You asked “Why model an assembly in 2D with a 3D tool”
Well isn’t that what a Layout Sketch is? It may seem from these threads that I am duplicating 2d processes or hung up on AutoCad, but that’s not really the case. Nothing is cast in stone yet. When I inquire about a process or say that I’m doing this or that it just means that I’m currently testing the waters to understand the upside and downside of doing something a particular way. In the mean time I am slowly developing a methodology that wont sink when the time comes. I have been given the responsibility to pave the way for our company to transition into SW for major tooling projects. Also mixed into this is the reality of dealing with major medical and automotive companies that want to give us a mix of solid model and Autocad geometry of their product for us to tool up in progressive dies. Also our design staff of 10 design engineers has its fare share of doubting Thomas’s as to SW capabilities for what we do. So a new SW methodology needs to be somewhat bullet proof. Most of our tooling designs are complex including reconstruction of our customer’s parts in SW and development of a ribbon layout for a prog die that will have 300 to 400 components. Plus secondary tooling, inspection fixtures, and other related stuff. We are always on a tight timeframe to complete the project. Almost all of our projects are one of a kind. Only design concepts are copied from one project to another. During this learning phase I we want to keep design methodologies similar wherever possible as long as it makes sense. This is why I thought assembly layout sketches was a step in the right direction, because this is how we start most of our AutoCad designs. We are also going to select a job or two that is completely finished and try to replicate it in SW to see what pitfalls we encounter.
Again, Scott I appreciate yours and others help. I personally love SW, 3d is very cool.
Tom..
RE: In-Context Parts in drawing upside down
Layout sketching and the way you are setting it up sounds a lot like ACAD. With that in mind you could set it up in ACAD and import into a part file in SW. Would be just as fast probably.
Layout sketches will work, but I don't like to make things twice. You could take those blocks you get and import them into individual parts (don't make into bodies yet) Take each of those parts into an assembly and assembly the part sketches in the Assy sketch. The ease of you making those part sketches into a 3D will cut the size down tremendously versus redrawing or coping and pasting them.
Maybe I have missed your procedure on this, but that's the way I understand your process so far and the above would be the way I would attack that.
Best Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376