Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
(OP)
I see these two words used almost interchangeably in much engineering writing. I've even seen it in other forums on this site. Does anybody really not know the difference?





RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
1. A basic truth, law, or assumption: the principles of democracy.
2.
a. A rule or standard, especially of good behavior: a man of principle.
b. The collectivity of moral or ethical standards or judgments: a decision based on principle rather than expediency.
3. A fixed or predetermined policy or mode of action.
4. A basic or essential quality or element determining intrinsic nature or characteristic behavior: the principle of self-preservation.
5. A rule or law concerning the functioning of natural phenomena or mechanical processes: the principle of jet propulsion.
6. Chemistry One of the elements that compose a substance, especially one that gives some special quality or effect.
7. A basic source. See Usage Note at principal.
---------------------------------------------------------
prin·ci·pal Pronunciation (prns-pl)adj.
1. First, highest, or foremost in importance, rank, worth, or degree; chief. See Synonyms at chief.
2. Of, relating to, or being financial principal, or a principal in a financial transaction. n.
1. One who holds a position of presiding rank, especially the head of an elementary school or high school.
2. A main participant in a situation.
3. A person having a leading or starring role.
4.
a. The capital or main body of an estate or financial holding as distinguished from the interest or revenue from it.
b. A sum of money owed as a debt, upon which interest is calculated.
5. Law
a. A person who empowers another to act as his or her representative.
b. The person having prime responsibility for an obligation as distinguished from one who acts as surety or as an endorser.
c. One who commits or is an accomplice to a crime.
6. Architecture Either of a pair of inclined timbers forming the sides of a triangular truss for a pitched roof.
princi·pal·ship n.
Usage Note: Principal and principle are often confused but have no meanings in common. Principle is only a noun and usually refers to a rule or standard. Principal is both a noun and an adjective. As a noun, it has specialized meanings in law and finance, but in general usage it refers to a person who holds a high position or plays an important role: a meeting among all the principals in the transaction. As an adjective it has the sense of "chief" or "leading": The coach's principal concern is the quarterback's health.
_______________________________________
Feeling frisky.........
www.tailofthedragon.com
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I never (well maybe once and then forgot) knew there were two spellings depending on the definition. I've been confused on the spelling for years because I've seen it both ways so many times. Now I know why.
NozzleTwister
Houston, Texas
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Washington DC is the USA capital city, but congress works in the Capitol building, deciding how to spend the nation's capital.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
rmw
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Too principled perhaps?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Another pair that gets confused is physical and fiscal.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Another really common one is affect and effect.
Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
A.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Always a good book for resolving word issues. The nice thing is that he also points out when differences are transatlantic (UK/US).
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I completely agree with your post. The fiscal/physical thing drives me crazy, especially when I say "fiscal" and some says "what, oh, physical".
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Remember: cause and effect.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I posted this in another thread, but my daughter recently wrote her University entrance essay and shared it with her HS English teacher. The teacher marked up her use of "affected", saying it should have been "effected", AND SHE WAS DEAD WRONG! Since this was a class asignment and it was going to have an effect on my daughter's grade, I took the teacher to task on it. She just wrote back and continues to insist that I am wrong, even though I have cited the expert references. Sheesh, and to think, I contribute to her salary!
Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
What's the sentence in question?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I've seen in a recent post, in one of the engineering forums, the word particuls instead of particles. How can you explain this "deviation" ?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
to, too, and two
their, there, and they're
how about this - flammable and inflammable
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I sold my 14 karat gold ring with the 1/2 carat diamond to buy a carrot farm.
Along the lines of flammable and inflammable, another really commonly misused pair is regardless and irregardless. I hate it when I say "regardless of the fact..." and someone corrects me saying "You mean irregardless of the fact...". I point out to them that 'IRregardless' is not really a word, regardless of the fact that lots of people use it.
Eng-Tips: Help for your job, not for your homework Read FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Good one. In my defense, I was going with the alliteration thing with the "c".
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Principle nourishes the mind; principal the stomach.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Wha?
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I'm not gonna like it when it's explained to me, either. I can tell.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Maybe unfair to the majority of Texans?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
You need money (principal) to buy food (lunch).
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Seem to recall you being Brit, so I appreciate your taste. I must say, however, that I learned more than I ever needed to know about English cuisine from Sweeney Todd.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Take one Principal,Bleed Well, Hang, and Peel
Crush 16 cloves of garlic
Peel and slice 4 kg of onions. Make sure no one cries, especially the Principal.
Discard the useless Parts of the Principal. Since he is a teacher, this might be more than you think. The Brain, in particular. Retain the Tongue, it will be well developed.
Make a crust
Put the useful Parts of the Principal into the pie dish,
add diverse vegetables, herbs and sundry seasonings
Cover with aforesaid crust.
Cook, as required
Serve.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Does that actually exist?
Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Toad in the Hole;
Shepards Pie;
Hotpot;
Mashed potatoes;
Haggis, Neeps and Tatties (except that's Scottish Cuisine);
Deep Fried Mars Bar;
We have a wealth of culinary delights. These dishes take years to master.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I told you I wouldn't like it. I hate cryptic crosswords too. They rely on deliberate misuse of idiom and it bugs me.
I like shepherd's pie though. (Made with "I Can't Believe It's Not Shepherd", to tie to another old thread in another forum...)
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I have poor memory of English cuisine myself. But I sure will try again, maybe I'll be a little bit luckier. To my defense, I have to tell it is not easy to like foreign food when you're French
[RANT OFF]
Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I even started making my own Cornish Pasties when I lived there!
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Lancashire Hot Pot (although residents and ex-pats of a certain county in the UK still consider this foreign)
Chicken Tikka Masarla (Indian style, UK invented)
Fish and Chips
Black pudding
Lincolnshire and Cumberland sausages
Truckers salad (may be universal)
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
higher alcoholic content is due to the fact we have so many good drinks we can't help drink them
Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Interesting - I hadn't come across the carat / karat distinction before. In British English (and Australian usage), "carat" is used for both the weight of gemstones AND for the purity of gold. (In fact, my Macquarie doesn't even list "karat" as an alternative spelling.)
By the way, you could also add the "caret" - a mark made in written or printed matter to show the place where something is to be inserted. I'm not sure how to get a proper caret to show in HTML, but an editor's mark-up of your example might look like this in Britain / Australia:
I sold my 14 karat [caret] gold ring with the 1/2 carat diamond to buy a carrot farm.
Link to caret: [Use "carat" not "karat" in standard British spelling]
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Although used indistinctly, carat and karat have different technical meanings.
Carat is a lapidary unit of weight of gemstones, equal to 200 mg. Aka metric carat.
Karat is a metallurgical unit for designating the fineness of gold in an alloy, represents a twenty-fourth part; thus 18-karat gold is 18/24 or 75% pure.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
In every other case use Principle - thats the best principle
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I also can't stand computer spell checkers. I've come across many office workers that say, "I don't understand. I ran it through the spell check." For your amusement, enclosed is the link to my favorite piece on this subject: "Candidate for a Pullet Surprise"
http://te
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Spell Checkers can't find the wrong words spelled right.
NozzleTwister
Houston, Texas
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Luis
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Newton was not a principal as opposed to Newton's Law of gravity, which is. (???)
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Very good
But Newton was inteligent he knew mesure the distances he was the one who discover the statement or principle. So he anderstood it !
The law says:
One big eengineer mass atracts other engineer mass by a force directed along the line conecting the two. This force is proporcional to the product of the masses of the engeniers and inversely proportional to the sequare of the distance between them.
So if engineers don’t respect their masses distance, the more separarated they are the more stronger colision will be, but the one with the lower mass will sufer more.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
according the law I should say: “So if engineers don’t respect their masses difference, the more closer they are the more stronger collision will be, but the one with the lower mass will suffer more”
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Going the Big Inch!
http://virtualpipeline.spaces.msn.com
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
As far as affect and effect are concerned, I generally stick with affect for a verb and effect for a noun. I use a synonym for effect if I intend to convey 'bring about.'
A principle is a rule; a principal makes rules.
Regardless of how many times you use it, irregardless is not a word, and for the sake of English, I hope it never becomes one, unless it is used as a noun to denote 'the common usage of something that is incorrect' :)
Yes, English is lots o' fun. Being Canadian, we are supposed to speak rather American and spell rather British; the problem is most people don't know which is which anymore when it comes to spelling and grammar.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Is 'unthaw' in common use in Canada or the northern US? I haven't heard 'unthaw' used, but I have heard the word 'unthawed' from my dad who is from Wisconsin and others, I probably have used it.
I've heard it used like, "The meat is unthawed." Meaning of course, "The meat hasn't thawed out yet." or "The meat hasn't been thawed.
So, is 'unthawed' a word? It seams pretty handy.
NozzleTwister
Houston, Texas
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
My personal favourites (Cdn spelling...favorites for US readers) are insure / ensure / assure; sometimes an engineer thing, but definitely an illiterate newspaper & magazine writer thing, and a lawyer thing too, and you wouldn't believe how often it's misused in patents!!!!!!!!!
I had a colleague I shared a pod with a while back that would say "irregardless" about every third sentence...it's "irrespective of" or "regardless of"...I still have a flat spot on my forehead for hitting the desk so often!
Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services
CAD-Documentation-GD&T-Product Development
www.profileservices.ca
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
(on topic)
I only got a C in English and I'm Dyslexic. How's that for an answer.
Also If I'm typing too fast and run spell check too fast I frequently correct to the wrong word.
(warning – off topic content)
That said I seem to have been appointed technical writer for my little section, which I find a little ironic given what I state in my first sentence.
Maybe it’s because being a Brit in the US I sound cleverer/fancier than I really am.
Anyone from the UK though wouldn’t think I sound intelligent, think a mix of Hampshire and Generic London accent. (People from London reckon I’m a right carrot cruncher straight off the last turnip cart whilst people from deeper in the country think I’m from the big smoke.)
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
So if even newspaper editors can't get it right...
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
A bit of trivia: The word "capitol" did not exist until George Washington and others laying out the city of Washington, DC, (to be the capital of our new United States) were marking the location of the national legislative building (1792). The group wanted to name the building something that would indicate the importance of the work done inside it, but the familiar word "parliament" smacked too strongly of royalty, which the new country was trying to get away from. Someone - it may have been Washington himself, but I don't know for sure - suggested that they take the word "capital" and spell it with an 'o' to signify this important building. And so, to this day, capitol buildings are in every capital in the United States.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
During our revolution those two terms were virtually opposites.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Think of the word "abate" which means to lessen, decrease, or stop [hold back]. "After a heavy downpour, the late afternoon storm abated, and we were able to run out to our cars to go home."
At least on line, I don't have to worry if my breath is "baited" or not while conversing with others.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
I always assumed it referred to waiting for something to happen like springing a baited trap or some such. Clearly wrong.
thanks
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Another favorite misuse I see and hear a lot is the way the "carrot and stick" concept is used. The original fable tells about how the farm boy's mule would not pull the plow, so the boy cut a long stick, tied it to the neck of the mule, and tied a carrot to the end of the stick. This treat, dangling so close to the mule's nose, enticed the mule to move forward.
Most uses of this phrase are that the carrot and the stick are opposites of a choice - you either get beaten by the stick, or you are bribed by the carrot.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
When I began my first job out of college about 30 years ago, I had taken a letter or memo to the secretary to type. She came back and asked if I had a dictionary. I told her no and she responded that we all need a dictionary and she would order one for me.
Then the Chief Engineer, who has to approve the purchase, called me in and asked me what I needed a dictionary for. I told him so I can check the spelling as required for what I write. He told me in a very strong tone in front of the secretary, "You don't need to know how to spell, I hired you to be an Engineer!"
A few minutes later the secretary brought me a brand new dictionary. She said, "I always keep a spare in my drawer for when this happens. I'll just order another to replace it. They always approve the dictionary purchases for the secretaries."
NozzleTwister
Houston, Texas
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
If I keep reading documents with bad spelling my own suffers. I wonder how on earth typists used to cope.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
How do you catch a mouse? You eat some cheese and wait by the mousehole with baited breath.
That's just not funny if "baited breath" is the normal expression.
How about "flout" vs. "flaunt"? "Home in" vs. "Hone in"? Ensure vs. insure vs. assure?
This is one of my favo(u)rite language usage pages:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/3.html
(Though it's missing "home" vs. "hone")
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: FAQ731-376
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
"I could of done better."
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
Yes, that is an example of writing words based on how you hear them. It's a contraction of "could have" which contracts into "could've," kind of slangy or colloquial, but acceptable English. Rolling off the tongue, it sounds like "could of." Of course, in this thread, we are kind of preaching to the choir - but don't we all enjoy poking at the ignorant! I do pick up on some of my own errors in this forum, though. I don't make a lot of grammatical errors, having had a good aptitude for the subject in school, but you never really learn it all, and if you don't use it, you do lose it to a degree, or you forget certain elements. And it's easy to make mistakes in using idioms with which you may have never had any experience or study. For so many of us, it never occurs to us to think about the origin of a saying; quite often, the origin and meaning are clear, but certainly not always.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
A moot point is one you agree on, so you don't need to discuss it.
A mute point is one you don't discuss anyway.
End result is the same...
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?
RE: Why can't engineers differentiate between principle and principal?