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Since .....

Since .....

Since .....

(OP)
Here is a simple example of the usage of "Since"

Since he is very fat, he cannot run.....

Pls tell me what the problem is (i.e. the usage of "Since" as "Because")

RE: Since .....

Doesn't the word "since" have to do with time, not cause and effect?

It has been three days since...

DaveAtkins

RE: Since .....

I think it is one of those examples where common usage has evolved away from the subtle differences in definition.

For the purists it would be better to say:
Since he became very fat, he cannot run (emphasising time, as TheTick says)
or
Because he is very fat, he cannot run (emphasising cause)

As TheTick says, "since" and "because" are now used interchangably with the same meaning, without the subtleties and nuances of changing tense, etc.

RE: Since .....

"Since the time he became fat he cannot run"

 This will be the correct usage,but during conversation "the time" is omitted.

RE: Since .....

No, "the time" isn't required even in formal writing, but leaving it in will ensure that the "because" reading is ruled out.  Likewise for using "Ever since".

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Since .....

Starting a sentence with either "since" or "because" is generally passive.  Written in the perferable active construction:

He cannot run because he is fat.

This construction also emphasizes the cause and effect relationship, and make it more apparent that "because" is the correct word for the job, if you are clearly discussing cause and effect.

However, consider the following variations:

"He used to be very fast.  Unfortunately since he hurt his foot he has not won a race."

"He used to be very fast.  Unfortunately he has not won a race since he hurt his foot last year."

"He used to be very fast.  Unfortunately he has not won a race in the past year because he hurt his foot."


RE: Since .....

It's not inherently passive.  Not particularly direct, but not passive, which has a very specific grammatical meaning.

"Since he was mugged by that old lady..." passive
"Since he mugged that old lady..." active

But the order of clauses is a separate issue from choice of "because" or "since"--most of the examples brought up ehre can be reversed.  "Since he got fat, he can't run" can be rewritten as "He can't run since he got fat."  Sounds a little more direct, but still problematic since (heh) it's ambiguous between the time sequence meaning and the causality meaning.

The original sentence, the one starting with "Since he is very fat...", is unambiguous because "he is very fat" can't define a moment in time, but it's incorrect for those who reject the "because" meaning of "since".  (I try to avoid the causality usage of "since" in very formal writing, if nothing else to avoid hitting my readers' pet peeves, but as illustrated above I use it all the time in less formal settings when I'm not double-checking myself.)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Since .....

abetio read this post... and was confused by the use of since, ever since.

saludos.
a.

RE: Since .....

"Doesn't the word "since" have to do with time, not cause and effect?

It has been three days since... "

That is exactly correct. Unfortunately, the sloppy use of "since" is so pervasive that it has become an excusable offense. I really hate this and mark it every time when I proofread documents. Proofreaders of the world unite!

14159

RE: Since .....

==> "Doesn't the word "since" have to do with time, not cause and effect?

The answer to that question can be found in almost any dictionary.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Since .....

I further learned that 'since' is to be used with point  time(specific date, year, hour etc) only. But I see its dilution by both native and non native speakers of english.

RE: Since .....

(OP)
Dear All,

I just have a look at oen reference book, the example shown in that book is (under the title of "Adverb Clause of Reason")

=> (As/Since) I was in a hurry, I took a taxi

From that example, "As" and "Since" seem to have the same meaning. What do you think??

RE: Since .....

Again...

"As" in this context means the same as "because".  (I found one reference disparaging this usage and calling it "feeble", but that doesn't make it ungrammatical.)

"Since" can mean either "because" or "after the point in time that".

Some people only accept the "after the point in time that" meaning for "since" and don't accept the "because" meaning, but the "because" meaning has been around for centuries.  Maybe it's the ambiguity of "since" that makes some people want to reserve it for the timing use only.

Reasons one might choose to avoid using "since" to mean "because":
1.  It annoys some people and one may wish to avoid annoying one's readers.
2.  One is among those who get annoyed.
3.  Sometimes it might matter whether the "because" meaning or the timing meaning is intended, and "since" is ambiguous.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Since .....

"As" opens up another can of worms.

As I took my shower, I listened to the radio. (While I took my shower....)  Here, "as" does not mean "because."  It denotes time, not cause.

As I was walking, I saw a friend. (Time, not cause)
As I was crippled, I had to remain bedridden. (Cause, not time)

RE: Since .....

"Seein' as how the fact bein' as I was ..."

There.  That'll do ya.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: Since .....

You guys are missing the really offensive word as it causes much irritation from my perspective.

Use of the word "since' is not so offensive as its use is generally accepted.

There is another word used that drives me up the wall, as its use is corrupted by many.

RE: Since .....

tommech,
I too, have a word issue (got).   Why can't we teach are kids to say I "have" instead of got; you have (got) it, "No thanks I have (got) a ride", Got (have) the tickets.

To hear my youngest use this word, just blows me up.

RE: Since .....

What about the word IN...as in colouring IN book...or using a pen to put information on a page by filling the boxes IN.

Why has OUT become the new IN...why do people say fill this questionaire OUT and fill this form OUT?

I mean these forms are full of boxes to fill IN...you put words IN the boxes...who made IN become OUT?

I hate it...hate it.

Hydromech

RE: Since .....

That might be new in the UK, but it's long standard (19th century) in the US, where the two phrases are not always interchangeable.  I might fill IN the individual blanks on a form, but if I'm talking about completing the whole form itself, I fill it OUT.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

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