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A negative unprofessional coworker
16

A negative unprofessional coworker

A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
I am concerned about a co-worker who is negative and unprofessional towards me. I believe the issue started about 2 months ago and is related to an after work happy hour discussion. This guy always talks about politics whether in work or out and I happen to disagree with him.

I took him and another coworker on in a spirited debate (once again outside of work in a pub).

Since then it's been the cold war. Now I am more worried because I will be moving into the same office he works in.

When I ask him for assistance on things, he completely blows me off. He will go out of his way however to help the young attractive women that work in that office. He will talk with them for hours and joke with them, half the time I see him he is either joking with them or helping them with their work.

I think this is totally unprofessional. He doesn't even acknowledge me when I say hi.

Now I'm moving into an office feet from him. I will continue to say hello in the morning, but I won't let take any crap from him.

I work too hard to put up with this emotionally charged basketcase. I have never seen anything like it in any of my jobs. I don't expect that we have to be friends, but he should be professional at work.

I spoke with other coworkers about him and they said there are people in the department that he hasn't spoken a word to in years because of an argument.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Don't pay any attention to him.  Take care of your job, and it will take care of you.  I wouldn't be worrying about what others think.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
You are right. I will have to do this. But it just happens to be that he is the loudmouth of the group. He tries to act as the alpha male of the group.

I will have to ignore him. I'm pretty sure in the new office it will be all work on my side. I'll let him play games and hit on girls 30 years his junior.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

How are the other people in the group towards you?  Do they ignore you?  I would blow this guy off....the next time he starts to talk politics in the office tell him this is not the place for political debate and you would prefer to debate someone that's more open minded to other views (right or wrong).  I use to work with this guy and we use to get into hot political debates.....I use to get this guy fired up.....I would always listen to his point of view but he would slam mine.  Whenever he would start a decusion I would just get up and leave the office.  He got my point and started to let me speak my opinion (right or wrong).

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Dave, I totally understand how easy it can be to get caught up in these "games". I have in the past myself. The biggest issue here is how will it affect your work. If you feel like this (geographic) situation will negativly affect your work, see about getting a desk away from this yahoo.

Loudmouth guys tend to want to engage you. If you don't engage them they generally leave you alone.

Wes C.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

I would not get caught up too much about one guy.  Put in an honest effort and if he doesn't return it, well... at least you tried.

I would be careful about talking about him behind his back though.  You do not want to come across as being 'two-faced'.  I'm not saying you are but be careful, some people may take it the wrong way.

Cheers

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Do you have a working relationship with him ? or he's just another co-worker in the office, whose path you don't have to cross officially ?  If the answer is yes, then just assume that he's not there at all !!! Totally ignore him and carry on with your work.

If the answer is no, it's a lot more tougher and you need to tackle it differently.

Good luck

HVAC68

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

I agree whole-heartedly with Wes616. DO NOT ENGAGE!  Politics are a hair trigger for some folks, and you will just never come out positively in any conversation because they will always need to "win".  It's a tough road to maintain your own professionalism when dealing with an emotional child (no matter what his age) of that sort.  Ignore him, and let him make a fool of himself with the young ladies.  Unless he is the owner of the firm, this behaviour will get him the recognition he deserves at some point, if you know what I mean.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

As everyone has said, let the man dig his own hole.... There will come a time when he will need something from you.  At that point, you can decide how to best address the situation.  Whether or not you help him, or at least get the chance to clear the air.  He'll know then, that if he wants something from you, he'll need to pay you more respect routinely.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Engage from the high ground.

Make it a point to always be courteous and professional with this person, especially in front of others.  Maintain your professional bearing and you will simply outshine him.  You'll also be a better person for it.

Don't agonize over gaining or losing this person's respect.  If his judgment is that clouded by a single debate in a pub, then regaining his respect isn't worth the effort.  Simply be respectable.

I could be the world's greatest underachiever, if I could just learn to apply myself.
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com-SolidWorks API VB programming help

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
I gained some valuable insight. I had to tell a coworker about it, but I shouldn't tell to many people and be two faced as the one gentlemen stated.

I'll keep you posted. After all I go to work to work not win a popularity contest, but this guy is unprofessional.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Avoid politics and religion in the office. Or at least wait until you find out what the majority thinks before expressing an opinion. No matter how convincingly you argue, you will not change them and you could get fired for being a trouble maker. At least on the internet you can say what you want and there are no repercussions as long as you use a fake name.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

If you had the choice of talking to pretty young girls or some dude you don't agree with or get along with, whom would you choose?  You don't have to be friends with the people in your office, you just have to be able to work together professionally when needed.  If he doesn't say "hi" when you walk in or say "hi" then big deal.  Try to get along as best you can and leave it at that.  If you think it would help, maybe you two should have a little talk and agree to disagree and conduct yourselves professionally in the office.  Maybe that means wearing head phones and not turning up music to irk the other, and so on.  You can be courteous and polite when necessary that's all anyone should ask, imo.  If he can't handle that, at least you can keep your own standards up and do the best you can.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

The 3 step plan to avoiding getting in debates about sensitive subjects:

1) Stop watching CNN, Fox News, or anyother network news channel. They over dramatize everything and rarely report things correctly. I perfer to get my news from yahoo's website. It seems like the news articles on yahoo is more about getting to the point of the facts rather than the opionions of the network.

2) Only listen and never participate in the debates. I usually find it more entertaining to listen to others make a fool of themselves than to open my mouth.

"It's better for people to think that you are an idiot than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

3) Read "How To Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

It took me a while, but I learned to not talk about politics, religion, child raising, or any other sensitive topic with co-workers. Nothing good can ever come of it unless you actually have a chance of changing someone's mind, a rare event for anybody over 22 with half a brain. Years ago, I permanently damaged a relationship with a principal at my former firm during one of these debates. Nothing really ever came of it, but it was definitely not worth it.

For your current situation, all you can do is be as positive and professional as possible. He'll either cooperate or he won't. I like the idea of trying to put some distance between you and him, although I realize that is easier said than done.

14159

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

I am currently in a similar situation, where one of my co-worker just hates me !!!  He thinks I am a threat to him and uses every opportunity to have a dig at me.  I was initially retaliating, trying to prove my point in front of others, but realised quickly that I don't have to do that.  Next I tried talking to him - heart-to-heart talk - one-on-one.  He didn't have an open mind to discuss and started insulting me. I immediately closed the conversation.
Now, I try and avoid him as much as possible - just a routine "hi" and "good morning" when I bump on to him face-to-face.  Otherwise, every little interaction I have with him is through e-mail only.  I am very careful in choosing the language and tone of my mails and have so far been successful.  People have started realising who is right and who is wrong - not too many pretty girls here though - :0(  

Retaliating in public has had bad influences.  I also have a good friend with whom I share these - sometimes, you need to do that to avoid a pressure-cooler situation.

HVAC68

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Ignore him. Do not say good morning to him. If you are forced to interact with him at all, do so in a respectful and professional manner. Do not appear to be angry when he says something that is meant to upset you - calmly repeat his words to him and then provide your interpretation and ask him if that is what he meant? He apparently has the type of personality that holds a grudge. Do not waste your valuable time or energy in attempting to engage him or you will become even more angry/disappointed/bothered by his refusal to acknowledge you in a socially acceptable manner. People of this sort are best left to themselves.

Maui

Constants aren't; variables won't.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Thanks. I guess I was concerned with the character assasination attempts he appears to be leading.

Believe me I won't let him continue when I'm in the same office.

I will say hi to him once in the morning and nothing else unless to defend myself.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

The character assassination could be a problem for you.

- That the guy's behavior has been allowed to continue for any length of time suggests that either your management is, er, not fully effective, or that he has some leverage on them.

- The why of it does not matter.  If he files a formal complaint against you with HR, stating or insinuating that you are unable or unwilling to maintain a good working relationship with him, there's a good chance that HR will hold it against _you_, and your management will defend you faintly, if at all.

- Be especially wary if there is a shakeup in HR.  A new team may choose to interpret synthetic or unreliable 'evidence' literally, and take action.  They may conduct a kangaroo court, or they may not even bother with formalities.   

   I have come to believe that there are small teams of HR people who move from company to company, en masse,  with the publicly unstated mission of cleaning out particular political factions within a company.

Your mileage may vary.  I hope it does.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

2
If I were you.....I'd look for another job.  Life is hard enough without having to deal with idiots who behave like this and create negative feeling.

I would also offer this piece of advice......you spend 8+ hours with these people 5 days a week.  Why on earth would you want ot socialise with them.  I prefer to keep my circle of friends and my co-workers as 2 seperate groups.

That said....I hope all goes well for you.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Well redgdon, I'm in a new town, in a new job and a new career. And regrettably my social circle is small but slowly expanding. This is in part due to the difficulty in moving to a new town, but also suffered a bit of a heartbreak (my girlfriend decided she wouldn't move here and broke up with me, still love that girl and we never fought, but what can you do?)

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Too bad adult problems can't solved in the same way that children's problems are solved, ie. a beat down. It's less stressful and way more efficient, bloody lawyers and their assault charges :) Plus every childhood fight I've ever witnessed has led to the creation of a great friendship, I think it's due to mutual respect.

Barring you don a ski mask and corner the schmuck in a dark alleyway. I would suggest investing in a voice recorder and documenting his behaviour. Then show the evidence to your boss, NEVER EVER show it to the schmuck before showing it to your boss though. Oh and make sure that the person speaking in the voice recorder can be clearly identified.

Sounds somewhat sinister, but I'm a firm believer in quickly and efficiently removing cancers.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

This is one of the things that HR are supposed to monitor....
That said, document and save but don't be the instigator; it's surprising hw often these jerks are favoured by management for no rational reason just as it is surprising how often non-professional behaviour is tolerated by management when logically you would expect otherwise.
His refusal to co-operate will impact on your own work and guess whose work will be reviewed in a "situation".
Management usually react to problems by associating the messenger with the problem i.e. if your raise the issue it is you who will be considered the problem maker.
Long term you can hope this guy will do enough damage to himself that he will ultimately get sacked... however, i wouldn't bet on it.. keeping your CV current seems a good bet and you don't want any "problems" with a reference.

PS this is probably the one time that those "team building" events can be useful.... not for team building but just to expend your entire arsenal of paint balls on your favourite target (see Icebreakers: thread731-131323 ) and note who else does the same!

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
This is freaking incredible. Twice today I have passed him and in situations where normal mentally healthy people would say hi, he didn't say a word. It is like he took a Buddhist vow of silence against me. For the record I said hi both times.

If it weren't for what he might say to turn my coworkers against me this would be a total laugh. The guy has serious serious issues. I said hi to him both times. The guy looks like a deer in the headlights when he looks at me.

It will be real interesting when I move into the same office area here soon. That is what I'm not looking forward too and it's only because of him.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Dave

I've had coworkers treat me this way and we were on good terms. Some people are just plain weird at work and I really wouldn't let it bother you. Those mostly wrong personality stereotypes that engineers have are because some engineers actually perfer to have horrible interpersonal skills.

bigTomHanks

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

"I would suggest investing in a voice recorder and documenting his behaviour"

Someone remind me--this isn't illegal (in the US) as long as ONE of the parties to the converation is aware of the recording, right?

Just making sure.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies:  FAQ731-376

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

I'm not really sure, I think that it is inadmissible in court, but if you're proving a point to your boss.
Or you can just display it in plain sight and turn it on in an animated manner in front of the person. I believe that a court would count that as making the person aware. I don't really know for sure, those lawyers are tricky at best.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Hg,

This is a state to state issue. Some states require both parties to be aware of this (Like California) some do not (think Monica, Linda Tripp). Also, if it a telephone conversation that is interstate, both parites must be made aware of the recording. That is why when you call an 800 line, you get the message that "this call may be recorded for training purposes"...

Wes C.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Well recording him with regards to me would pick up nothing as he says nothing to me. But I could pick up all the joking and potential harassment he does of the young women that work there.

One thing is for sure, this will surely inspire me to focus on working the entire time I'm at work and even less likely to BS with anyone. If anything else I can show him up that way. I like showing people how professional I am, but hate playing the part of the stoic at work.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

EngDave, that's an excellent idea. If you anonymously speak to your boss about his behaviour towards the women in the office. The person is discredited in your bosses' mind, you might be better off having a private conversation with one of the women he harasses and get her to solidify the unsavoury image your boss will have of this lout.
The point is that by doing this you distance yourself from the real problem and your complaint looks more genuine.
Needless to say if all goes well the lout will be going to sensitivity training or worse :)
 

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Ziggi,
the danger is that unless the affected women co-workers have complained of harrasment, a complaint from a new arrival in that work area will send all the wrong signals.

Management aren't the brightest lights on the tree and they will see this as a problem they didn't want to know about being raised by someone who is not affected by the harrasment; who has just joined that work area and who obviously has other motives: i.e. a troublemaker.

Management hate problems and they hate people who bring them problems. Worst of all they hate the problems that could land them in court defending themselves against all sorts of human rights violations.
It is a sad fact that whistle blowers only ever get the satisfaction of having done the right thing because no one else will. Its the same thing with complaints.

Be prepared for if the s*** hits the fan and even be prepared that Mr Unprofessional may steal a march and make a pre-emptive claim whether justified or not.

Actually, and ideally (but in extreme circumstances), try and figure out how to make him do just this, make it his problem and let him make himself a problem to the management.
 
Let him go to them with a complaint (real or imaginary) and then act all innocent when management make their enquiries... "Mr UP said that? I can't understand it, we always have been most cordial and polite...etc" Now let him explain to management that that just isn't true, he's cut you dead every time you spoke to him.
 
Of course, if he is a nuisance to every one else and especially the women, just say "Ask anyone in that area, ask Sally for example, she'll confirm it." While "Sally" may not be prepared to go to management with harrasment complaints, when invited by the management to comment on Mr Unprofessional's conduct, you can bet Sally won't let the opportunity pass.

First though, try and catch him sitting at his desk, trap him there (make sure witnesses are around), say "Hi! how's it going today? what did you think about that game last night?" and then wait there in expectant silence. Don't say anything more.

This might just break him down.
It's easy for him to cut you dead passing in the corridor or whatever, but if he is to cut you now he has to stand up, manouver round you and exit as gracefully as he can. Then he has to wait for you to go away from his desk (don't, engage in some mundane unrelated discussion with someone at the next desk or something.)
ALternatively you're going to precipitate a "groundhog event" that will draw HR like flys and you'll have plenty of witnesses that he "just lost it".

Anyway, this isn't about fair, or about right: the world is not a fair place and the workplace is even less so. Its about the survival of number one and you shouldn't forget it. You might also adopt the view that if this his game you might aswell enjoy it.

PS I am indebted to another forum member for the definition of a "grounhog event": a happening in open plan offices, with  or without low level partitions, so extreme that everyone pops their heads over the partitions to see what's going on.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

4
I think the above post borders on harassment.

If somebody I didn't like wandered over to my desk and started asking me about the game last night while I was thinking about something they'd probably get a very anglo saxon response at best. And if they complained to my manager he'd say, well then, just leave him alone.

And all this james bond stuff leaves me pretty cold as well.

Just ignore him. It's what you were told as a child, and it is still valid. If the women don't like the way he treats them they have plenty of opportunity to sort it out themselves.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Actually at this point the girls love him. The reason is he coddles them, shows them all the tricks of the trade.

Without giving all the details up, two of the girls who adore him did not go to school for the field we are in. They are getting a free paid education from this guy.

Makes us who have went through the masters program required for this field sick in a way. They need him. So i think they will put up with him.

It is a long story. But believe me I am very upset. He is a total jerk.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Just ignore him and keep doing your job.  You need to be worried only if you have a working interface with him.  If you are in parallel paths work-wise, just ignore him and treat him as a non-entity.  

As said in my earlier post, I am managing a similar situation for the past 11 months - in fact, I have occasional official interaction due to some overlap in our working needs.  I put everything in an e-mail, mark a copy to our common boss, give him a deadline depending on when I am supposed to submit to my client and there ends the matter.  If he delays or does not provide information, I send him a polite reminder and he is left with no choice but to answer me.  Otherwise, we would have probably greeted each other maybe once in a month or so !!!  I even tried sending him a birthday card to help things, but he didn't even bother to reply nor say a thank you !!!

Dave - My suggestion is to just ignore him and concentrate on your work.  More importantly, don't lose your cool.

HVAC68

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

You should concentrate on being the best engineer in the place.  It will serve you best there and the next place as well. And only worry about things you can do something about ( which is nothing ).

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

The deer in the headlights behavior in the hallway suggests that he may have already taken some action that he knows will not please you when you find out what it is.

I hope I'm wrong about this:  I think you're doomed.  

If you stay, the best thing you can do is interact with him as little as possible, as professionally as possible.  That may not be enough to save your job.

It's not worth saving.  You're stressed now, and proximity is going to make that worse.  You haven't been able to change him, and management has absolutely no interest in doing so.

Any groundhog events (I love that phrase too), no matter the proximate cause, will bring down a turdstorm on you.  It sounds like no one, certainly not the females, would testify on your behalf, even if HR bothered to conduct a kangaroo court.  They won't.  In corporate America, there is no due process.

1.  GET ANOTHER JOB. ASAP.
2.  GET OUT.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Mike, get the star for the two excellent posts.

Dave,

I feel your joy about joining the same office to trouble the guy seems to be superficial and it is like masking your disgust. Further, that guy seems to be indifferent to this issue by not even caring to reply you. He can behave in that way when he knows that he has complete advantage over you. Your idea of recording his every day proceedings can be suicidal(this shows no difference between you and the guy about wasting your office time).

If I am in your position, I would try elsewhere. If I am compelled to be in my present job, then I would

1. Interact with that fellow as minimum possible.
2. Never say a word against him to any other soul.
3. Never be in his near vicinity.
4. First try to play with my own ego.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

While I agree that you are taking a certain risk by confronting this person, and should probably just ignore him.
It seems to me that a defensive or even apathetic stance will create more trouble b/c whatever he is saying against EngDave behind his back (the deer in the headlights look) could eventually screw EngDave over unless EngDave covers himself somehow or weakens his opponent's credibility (which appears to be what this person is doing to EngDave).
Someone once said that the best defense is a good offense.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Well I will not mention him to anyone anymore as it could just create more conflict. He is acting weird.

In terms of job title he is one step below, but he has been there many years and I could learn alot from him, if he would somehow let me.

I like this job and get along well with most of the other people. I also know my work ethic will time and time again prove to be the top in the department. What I don't know in terms of technical skills will come with time.

Without going into great detail about what I do, I'm in a new job in a new career and a new town. It is a technical job that is completely different than the engineering field i studied in undergrad and my first masters degree (but it is what I studied in my recent second masters degree). I am in a period of great learning. It is a shame that one guy refuses to help or be civil.

So leaving the job isn't an option.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
To add to my last post, I do understand the sentiment. Especially if this guy has polluted the water about me.

But that is what the next few weeks will be about. People with a superior work ethic always trumps the unprofessional ego driven prima donna in the work place (well almost always, but thats a whole different story)

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Companies are notoriously diffident about taking action relating to unprofessional employees. There have been some other threads on this topic and the upshot is that you shouldn't expect too much from either management or HR unless the issue gets to be too high profile.

Your last post provides some encouragement in that you are new new employee in a more senior position. This suggests that the company have recruited you with specific current needs in mind. This probably makes you more valuable to them than a long term employee whose skills set may be less relevant; after all, he was not promoted, and hence he is less important to them currently than you are.

This could mean that unless either of you raises this officially with management, this will not be more than a personal iritant i.e. no one is going to do anything. At my last company we had just such an employee, the management response was to shuffle him from department to department until he retired. By the way, how close is he to retirement?

Note: you say changing jobs is not an option. This isn't necessarily your choice. You should be prepared that if it all comes to a head you may be let go. Hence, keep your CV current and out there.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

7
Dave, the following is meant sincerely and without any sarcasm: this is probably the first major @$$hole you meet in your life, or at least your professional life. There are many more out there. They usually don't change much. It usually costs a lot of energy to try to change them. Don't waste that energy. Be more stubborn than he is. Don't think of leaving the company just because of one @$$hole, he would laugh his @$$ off and you might end up in another place with evenmore @$$holes around. In any case you mentioned leaving is not an option, so... Just tough it out. This will teach you things. Especially if you're his boss. Don't bother YOUR boss with it. It's not HIS problem and he would NOT be happy if you delegated it upward. And lastly, don't kneel down in the mud for this guy to make him listen to you or understand you, you would feel like a complete idiot afterward. Just try to make it/keep it a workable situation.

Dave I don't envy you but please be sure that you're one of thousands in the same situation...

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

PS and about him helping the attractive female species around him, hey, doesn't every male engineer do that..?

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Did this individual aspire to the position that you will be taking over when you move into the office next to him?


Maui

Constants aren't; variables won't.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Actually I've ran across a few aholes in jobs, but this guy takes the cake in terms of having the shortest fuse and being the weirdest. He also seems to have more estrogen in his tank than most women, which explains why he holds a grudge for so long. (Apologies in advance to all the women engineers out here).

I work with many people in the department. Unfortunately he is one of the most outspoken and has been there the longest. Two things that make him kind of an instant authority around here.


RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
He didn't aspire to the position I'm taking over although he makes constant reference to the fact that the people in my position make more than him and according to him know less.

I have never once disparaged his experience, to the contrary i enjoyed getting advice from him, when he spoke to me that is.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Don't take any crap.
Respond to him in a cival but firm manner.
You could look for an opportunity to insunuate that
he is a baby and should get a life. This seems to
drive home to some people of his type that you don't
care if he is mad, and that he can stay mad at you until
the sun goes nova.
They respond to tolerance with agression.
They sometimes respond to firmness with a backdown.
In any case work on yourself to try to not let this
character have any impact on your emotional day.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
I am actually enjoying this now. It's like a game to see when he might actually acknowledge my presence.

It does bother me in a way because I have done nothing to deserve it, but it is incredible.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Don't run away or look for another job, especially, if you like the job.  It's silly to change jobs just for the reason that somebody (not your boss) doesn't like you.  What's the guarantee that you won't find another one like him in your next job ?  Fight it out - Not literally or verbally.  If you are good and sincere in your job, probably you will outsmart him with your work and work ethics.

Come to think of it, my position is so similar to yours, the only difference being that I don't think I have anything to learn from my co-worker here (I am not sounding modest at all when I say this, but that's a bit of ego that has crept in after working for 15 years in the industry !!!)

Good luck.

HVAC68

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Being that you are a new guy, if he has had anybody report this type of thing in the past, you would have the upper hand.  Just the mention of him not saying hello back to you or that he refuses to hold a conversation could be quite significant with no degredation to how you are viewed.  If the company believes you two should be working together in any way, this should concern them.

I once worked with a fellow who was weird, about 1/10th compared to your co-worker.  The drafters would inch by inch push his cubicle walls closer together each day. After a couple of months the walls had him surrounded at the edge of his desk, too funny.

_______________________________________
Feeling frisky.........
www.tailofthedragon.com

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Not sure if the exact scenario fits your role, but I'm sure you could adapt it:

Invite one of your managers and your colleague to a design review or project review. Put him in a position where he has to interact with you. Don't invite too many people - make sure he is the only one with adequate expertise other than yourself to provide objective critique of the design. If he refuses he will show himself to be an uncooperative moron in front of his employers. Don't allow him to sit quietly - engage him with direct questions: "I don't know if this is the best way to adress this widget design problem - what do you think?". Etc.

----------------------------------

One day my ship will come in.
But with my luck, I'll be at the airport!

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
I appreciate all the suggestions. I think I just need to accept that the guy is quirky. Someone who used to work here told me that when I first started. He said there were several times where he would give him the silent treatment.

As much as I know he has a history of this, it bothers me to no end, especially when he doesn't say a word to me but talks to other people.

Another lady at work called him a "joke". I guess he is different. I should have noticed that from the way he wears the same clothes everyday (and it isn't a work uniform, it is the same colored shirt and pants, he tells people he has 5 or 6 of them, but I think it might be the same one or two of the identical shirts and pants). I just wish his personality was like Fred Flintstone too!

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

From reading all this stuff...sounds like this guy and this situation are right out of jr. high school...petty and juvenile.  You aren't going to change him.  If he's a jerk, he's going to stay a jerk.

Take Greg's advice "Just ignore him. It's what you were told as a child, and it is still valid. If the women don't like the way he treats them they have plenty of opportunity to sort it out themselves." or find a new job.  I'd bet the farm that the jerk hasn't wasted this much time worrying about what you think of him.

There is at least one at every office. Folks like this guy at work are what a friend of mine calls a "fly"...all they do is eat *&$% and bother people.

Good luck.

Brian

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
I think things are going to be OK. Today he actually broke the 2 week no talk. We printed something out at the same time, and I asked if he saw a printout for something I did. He actually spoke! Amazing.

This is actually a blessing. I won't have to hear extremely far left hippy views all day or his overly opinonated take on just about everything else.

And I'm going to wear headphones in the office at times, even if it looks slightly unprofessional. The noise in this new office is chaotic. A lot of it is him when he is entertaining the girls with storys.

Well at least I can one day aspire to be a 60 year old pickup artist as well!

Thanks for all the valuable advice!

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Dave, since you posted the problem and we never heard the other guy's story, we have defined the situation very neatly and easily in terms of good and bad like we learnt in kindergarden, but..... you just don't stop posting, aren't you a tiny little bit over-sensitive to this person? Are you really going to wear headphones while everybody else don't need them? In all honesty, I am not quite sure if you're not part of the problem yourself.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Well I am  definitely overly sensitive to this type of behavior. You are correct.

I will let everyone know how things workout. I think it will be fine. You can't be friends with everyone and work and friendship doesn't always mix.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

engineerdave,

there have been many good suggestions and advice provided in this posting . . . by the quantity of postings you have made leads me to believe that perhaps you are lowering your standards of behavioral conduct to someone elses standards. rise above the occasion . . . you have too much to loose by focusing your attention, getting stressed, etc. on someone else in the organization of your employ. frankly, i second MH postings about departing. if this person is "that bad" and that much of an influence (positive or otherwise) on others, and management has not addressed it, then that organization is not worthy of your services. seems that a re-evaluation of your self and your goals is warranted . . . bottom line, the #1 reason why projects and business fail is communication - a breakdown of communication. it is a well-established fact, but so many people loose sight of this fact. stop communicating with this individual, you might as well leave. wait, lastly, shame on you for expressing your political beliefs to someone you hardly know. i've no doubt you were likely reaching out to establish rapport with this individual (new in town, do not know many folks, etc,) and your political beliefs chapped his hide. it takes two to tangle and you must rise above the occasion and resolve the matter; the other fella won't. it could be as simple as, gee, i really do not know what i did to upset you, but i am sorry and let bygones be bygones. hi, my name is such and such. you are . . . ok, what is your job here . . . at least you demonstrate a willingness to communicate . . .

regardless of what happens, good luck!
-pmover

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

I think the headphones are an excellent idea, not just to block him out, but other unnecesary distractions as well.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

EngineerDave, if you should run into a similar situation in the future where you are about to enter into a heated debate with a co-worker of this type, you should remember the following phrase:

Never argue with an idiot - he'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.


Maui

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

As this thread goes on and on I am starting to realize what is going on here. This older guy has liberal views(a lot of women seem to like this) and he is obviously very charming. I wouldn't try to fight with him. Have you ever noticed a guy who looked or acted like a total slob or idiot that was always with good looking women. Well it seems that being in the company of attractive women seems to validate certain behavior. Since this guy has the ladies on his side, most likely he has a lot of men who envy his "player" skills. Eat a piece of humble pie on this one and just do whatever you can to make things better.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

amazing...
after reading this epic novel...

engineerdave a couple of notes...

1. seems like the guy does not acknowledge your existence,

2. you are posting every single time you said: hi! to him, sorry to say but that reminded me of my kids when they were very young: daddy! daddy! she did not say hi to me!

3. if all your energy and focus are around what this guy does or says or what a good time he is having with the female engineers... think again... more likely than not you are not giving your job 100% effort.

some standard answers to the issues you mentioned:
ìf people is discussing politics, religion, family etc on the job and you want to stay out of it:
- sorry, kind of busy here...
- well... do you mind, i have a deadline
- if you've got nothing to do... please don't do it here.
- wow... seems like you have some spare time to discuss this... i can get you real busy in a second.

regarding HR... these are general rules when dealing with those types:
when you start a conversation... consider you have been informed of your Miranda rights.

where there is no justice, it is dangerous to be right. Quevedo (spanish author). Donde no hay justicia, es peligroso tener razón (original version)

cheers

saludos.
a.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Just a thought dave- and I may have missed it if it has been suggested earlier in the saga above.

If you are having continual problems working with the guy why not sit down with him and discuss the issue (closed door). You are both professionals and you both have a job to do. Have a talk with him. Ask him if he has an issue with you, what is it?

Once you can answer the above you can start to work towards a professional working relationship. Letting things fester and biting backwards and forwards doesn't improve the situation. Of course if he doesn't wish to fix the solution there isn't much you can do other than being polite and conducting your job as best you can.

As with all advice- this is only my opinion. Feel free to make up your own mind.

Cheers.

Daniel.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Just for information, Techrepublic are running a poll on suck-ups.

Mr Unprofessional may well be one, but Dave, you haven't said how well he gets on with the bosses, and since this is long term behaviour you are commenting on he must have some management support i.e. he may be a suck-up (or he may have genuine value to the company).
I don't want to steal the Techrepublic show but just thought interested parties might like to see the (so-far listed) traits of the office suck-up (if you have any new rules, post to them).

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11189-0.html?forumID=6&threadID=182002&start=0&tag=nl.e101

Some are the obvious but some, I would have thought, involve a little risk.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
I haven't moved to the new office yet. But I do get the distinct impression that he has either bad mouthed me to other people.

The other people in the office act strange when we are both around.

I can't wait until I am in there. I hope my presence causes him issues. My superior work ethic will shine through and most of those people will realize any crap he said about me was wrong.

I hate to mind read, but pop psychology is a field of interest of mine. I can read these people like their minds are completely open.

I don't think they've met anyone like me before.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
By the way, I must emphasize this, I never once brought up politics in the workplace.

He brought it up several times to which I didn't respond. Then one night when we went out with the group from work (my birthday no less), we got into a big argument. It was myself and one girl there who agreed with him

After that he started acting weird. I don't know if it was because I handled my own in the debate against the two of them or what, but he holds a major grudge. And I haven't brought it up since.

But he has been acting strange since then.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

I have read the posts with interest, as when I first started in engineering I sensed that there were things going on between my colleagues.  They have since gotten over it.
Reading the above and your commentary on the situation it reminds me of two children at school.  The best advice is just get over it.  Don't ignore him as that is also playing a game. Have a think.  Maybe somewhere in internet land he is on a forum complaining about how you are acting??  

BUT, from what you have said he seems a bit of a jerk.  This may be difficult, but just act normally and don't get aggravated or wound up by him ignoring you etc.  Concern yourself with your job and your tasks

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Great news in a way.

My boss sent him over to work with me on a project. I think it might be the first step in forcing us to get along.

He still doesn't say much but i'm happy for him to acknowledge me.

IT's one of those screwed up things. You hate the guy but your pissed he doesn't acknowledge you. What a jackass he can be.

Apparently another reason i'm in this battle with him i found out late Friday afternoon.

He hates my mentor. I couldn't believe the damn words he had for him.
Of course i told my mentor about how this guy was acting and he said it is normal for him and there have been people at work that he hasn't talked to for years.

What a weird guy.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

"I hope my presence causes him issues. My superior work ethic will shine through and most of those people will realize any crap he said about me was wrong."

"I hate to mind read, but pop psychology is a field of interest of mine. I can read these people like their minds are completely open. I don't think they've met anyone like me before."

"He hates my mentor. I couldn't believe the damn words he had for him. Of course i told my mentor about how this guy was acting..."

Dave.... just look at the things you write, look at what you're doing. I think YOU are the troublemaker here. The other guy is doing exactly what we're trying to make you understand all the time: he's ignoring you. Stop this weird kindergarden business, Dave, please.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Do stars equal consensus?

----------------------------------

One day my ship will come in.
But with my luck, I'll be at the airport!

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Yes, perhaps it is time for this little soap opera to draw to a close?

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

"You hate the guy but your pissed he doesn't acknowledge you. "

If you hate the guy, why are you pissed off that he doesn't ackowledge you.

As epoisses has said, looks like the problem seems to be "shifting" to EngineerDave.

HVAC68

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Quote (EngineerDave):

I hate to mind read, but pop psychology is a field of interest of mine. I can read these people like their minds are completely open.

"Pop psychology" is twice as credible as "pop engineering".

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Guys I feel a bit vindicated today but troubled.

My suspicion that he has been talking bad about me to others has been confirmed. I will post more detail later.

This guy is a class A jerk. The deer in the headlight look probably is somehow related to this bullshit he's been spreading about me.

No class at all.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

Dave,

Have you considered that some of the comments could possibly be true? I don't know what the comments were obviously, but if they contained some variant of the words 'obsessed', 'neurotic', 'psychological problems' then maybe you need to take some of it on board. Get a grip.

----------------------------------

One day my ship will come in.
But with my luck, I'll be at the airport!

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

(OP)
Sorry about this thread guys.

I think I'm hypersensitive to this for alot of reasons.

1) I'm in a new career and new town where I dont know alot of people so work takes on an extra importance.

2) I've been in work environments before as a young engineer where I didn't promote myself or market myself enough. I refuse to let someone else try to market me in a bad light. However I do think talking badly about someone reflects badly on the person commenting as well.

3) The questions were all directed on my work ethic and intellect, two things this person is not qualified to judge. But I have heard him make disparaging remarks about others on this so why should I be surprised.

I profoundly apologize to board members for carrying this thread on until it was beat like a dead horse.

I do appreciate all the advice and can surely understand why some of you think I might be a source of the problem as well.

RE: A negative unprofessional coworker

So long and happy trails

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