It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
(OP)
Example:
It was decided to leave the brick in place.
(Leave aside for now debates on whether the passive voice is evil and to be avoided.)
The example above feels ungrammatical, but I can't find anything on it.
To me, the passive and infinitive can't be combined like that. It would need to be one of these:
"It was decided that the brick would be left in place."
"It was decided that we would leave the brick in place."
"We decided to leave the brick in place."
Without a real subject, I somehow can't allow the infinitive either.
I know there are plenty of examples of the usage I object to, but is there a grammar cite anywhere that agrees with me?
Hg
It was decided to leave the brick in place.
(Leave aside for now debates on whether the passive voice is evil and to be avoided.)
The example above feels ungrammatical, but I can't find anything on it.
To me, the passive and infinitive can't be combined like that. It would need to be one of these:
"It was decided that the brick would be left in place."
"It was decided that we would leave the brick in place."
"We decided to leave the brick in place."
Without a real subject, I somehow can't allow the infinitive either.
I know there are plenty of examples of the usage I object to, but is there a grammar cite anywhere that agrees with me?
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376





RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
Wes C.
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
The question is, is this an idiosyncracy all my own, or is there some standard basis for it?
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
The sentance, as first written, is wimpy and avoids taking responsibility. It's like farting in an elevator with only one other person there with you and pretending you didn't do it! Take the responsibility and admit to the bean burrito for lunch.
The last choice is the best choice.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
However, I'm fixing someone else's paper right now and I don't know who the agent of "it was planned to" is. (For now I've settled for a note saying, "By whom?" and I hope they do the right thing; I'd prefer to be able to offer a correction.)
But there's a difference between lousy writing and ungrammatical writing--plenty of awful writing is perfectly grammatical. I agree the example sentence is lousy writing--but it is ungrammatical to anyone but me?
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
http://www.mun.ca/writingcentre/pronouns.shtml under section "D".
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
Attributing actions (or worse, "inactions") to a non-entity smacks of "excusism", which I despise.
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com-SolidWorks API VB programming help
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
I think I'll go bother some linguists about this. I assume none of y'all want to hear what I find out...
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
Would you consider the sentence "Frank was decided to leave the brick in place" to be correct? What about "her pleas decided him to help" (that one is straight from m-w.com)?
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
http://ww
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
The first reason is that I don't like using infinitive phrases as predicate objects in passive voice. The second reason is that I don't like using the pronoun 'it' when its antecedent is the implied object of the verb. Nevertheless, both of these constructs are grammatically valid.
This particular sentence is for me a double whammy because the implied antecedent of 'it' is an infitive phrase in passive voice.
I detest the sentence, but in all honesty, I cannot claim it violates any rule of grammar.
Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
To me they aren't the same.
[IvyMike]Would you consider the sentence "Frank was decided to leave the brick in place" to be correct?
Oh hell no. Well, wait. Not if that's a passive. But if it's a participle or adjective, meaning something like "determined" or "hell-bent", it's okay, but that's a grammatically different function from the "it was decided" case.
[IvyMike]What about "her pleas decided him to help" (that one is straight from m-w.com)?
That is clearly a sign of the coming apocalypse. I can handle with only minor qualms "decide" as a transitive verb with that meaning, but not with an infinitive object. (A prepositional phrase would be ok--"Your argument has decided me on this question.")
Then there's "It was planned to..." That to me is exactly as bad, no worse and no better, than "It was decided to..." There's no usage of "plan", that I know of, equivalent to your m-w cite for "decide". ("The hurricane planned me to evacuate"??) So there should be more people who can say "It was decided to..." than "It was planned to..." Hard to survey this group on this topic since y'all seem pretty unified on hating the whole agentless thang anyway, but maybe you could put your weasel hats on?
[CajunCenturion]The first reason is that I don't like using infinitive phrases as predicate objects in passive voice. The second reason is that I don't like using the pronoun 'it' when its antecedent is the implied object of the verb. Nevertheless, both of these constructs are grammatically valid.
Actually, for you they aren't grammatically valid. Those are grammatical arguments you're making.
Anyway I'll report back when I hear from the pros. (Not to be confused with the prose.)
Hg, ex-pro but never a syntactician
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
Can you explain the difference in meaning? Is it literal, or just the impression you get?
But if it's a participle or adjective, meaning something like "determined" or "hell-bent", it's okay, but that's a grammatically different function from the "it was decided" case.
But if it's grammatically correct and means something other than what the writer intended, it's still grammatically correct. I almost responded to your original post with "Sounds like cousin It was pretty determined to leave that brick" but I didn't think anyone would get it.
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
"But if it's grammatically correct and means something other than what the writer intended, it's still grammatically correct."
Yes and no. My question isn't whether there's some completely different construal of the words to make sense of it, but whether the grammatical functions as assigned by the writer are correct. To a lot of people, they are. To me they clearly aren't but I'm wondering whether that's just my own meshigas.
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: It was planned/decided to [verb phrase]
I see nothing wrong with the original sentence from a grammatical perspective, nor do I see nothing wrong from a semantic perspective. However, from a position of style, it is for me, not a valid option.
Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein