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Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

(OP)
I am a civil designer/CADD manager with over 10 yrs experience. Like another poster below, I have been checking out Australia and the job market there. I did a search of Brisbane engineering jobs and was pretty astounded at some of the high wages they are willing to pay over there for people that do my specific job.

Keep in mind that 40,000 American dollars equals about 34,000 Australian dollars. So from that standpoint, the salaries seem that much higher. And the taxes, all in all, are only slightly higher compared to the US. Check out this chart... http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/tax_tot_tax_as_of_gdp&int=-1

Brisbane isnt particularly expensive to live in either. Nothing like Sydney.

Anyway, I did a search of Brisbane Australia jobs. Here is the link...

http://mycareer.com.au/jobs/brisbane/engineering/civil-structural/?pg=1

On the third page of that link, they had some civil tech cadd jobs paying "64-79k" a year, or "69-70k" a year, etc.

This ad here looks particularly illustrative of how good the market might be for a civil CADD tech person in Australia...

Quote:

AutoCAD Draftspersons - Any level, start ASAP in Brisbane.
Leading multi-disciplinary/cultural Engineering Consultants
High-Profile Civils/Highways projects in Queensland
Permanent or Temporary roles available
Our client is one of the leading engineering and development consultancies in the world. Over the last several years they have been consistently ranked in the annual survey listings of the US technical publication Engineering News-Record and in 2001 was listed in the top 80 in their listing 'The Top 200 International Design Firms'. Providing multidisciplinary consulting services in engineering, project management, environmental science and development activities, this Australian-owned group has been engaged in assignments throughout the world for 30 years.

They now URGENTLY seek over 10 AutoCAD draftspersons, preferably with Civils & Highways experience to detail Design Engineering projects in their very busy Brisbane office.

Basic requirements are a proficiency with AutoCAD, or similar Civils drafting software, and the motivation and team work to deliver an abundance of drafting work that passes through this office daily.

They are willing to train the less than experienced but only for highly motivated technicians looking to develop their career in this challenging field.

Sponsorship can also be provided for applicants looking to emigrate to Australia but again only for the dedication as mentioned above.

Our client has a very multicultural workplace and would welcome applications from experienced AutoCAD technicians with relevant Civils/Highways projects from any part of the world.

Brisbane is particularly busy at the moment and looks to continue for a number of years. Now is the right time for a move to the Sunny City for the right blend of challenging, high-profile projects and excellent social life.

Remuneration dependent on level of experience and would consider permanent or temporary staff as necessary.

Any thoughts on this?



RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

You got your currency conversion the wrong way round!

Hope your error checking is better than that usually.

In Sydney I was paying up to $44 per hour for contract AutoCAD guys, ten years ago (wow 10 years!), for rolling 6 week contracts.

I'm out of touch with current contract rates.

Brisbane is a pretty cheap place to live, and can be a lot of fun.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

(OP)
Greg,

You are right, how careless of me. Guess I was tired last night. It was a dumb mistake because I already knew that the US dollar was higher than the Australian dollar.

44 bucks an hour 10 years ago for CADD operators??? Thats pretty much unheard of around here! What discipline are you talking about - Civil, mechanical, structural, etc? Of course that was in Sydney which is more expensive than places like Brisbane.

I make 20 an hour here in the states as a civil drafter/designer. I have been doing it over 10 years. Is it true then that Australia pays more money to experienced CADD drafter/designers than they do in the states? I guess when I saw those ads I was looking for a catch or something.

Thanks for your reply, Greg!

Dan

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Depends on the industry.  Before 9/11, $50.00 U.S. was not unheard of for experienced, long term contract CAD drivers in the aerospaqce industry.  Even now, I often get calls from job shops offering $45.00/hr for the same positions.  Granted, this is not a direct rate, but things do seem to be picking up, thanks to military contracts for the most part.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Down here in texas long term contract piping designers are getting $45-50 an hour.  But, that is for the really good guys that have proven their worth.  I tried explain to my old boss one time I would rather have the one $45 an hour guy who can handle everything on his own, then the 3~$30 an hour guys it would take to replace him.

It took me a year in my last position to get a top notch design staff together that I was paying pretty good money for.  2~Senior Pipers, 1 Struct/Civil, and 1 I&E guy.  This team could get anything done right the first time.  Needless to say I was a little peeved (not at them) when one of the big boy engineering firms came in and hired all 4 of them away offering rates my small company couldn't touch.

I didn't go with them because it would have destroyed the company I was working for, since I was the only who knew what was going on in the design department.  My offer was pretty generous also.  I didn't even tell my wife about the offer because she would have made me take a miserable position.

I talk to them everyonce in a while, they say they had alot more fun working for me, but their toys are nicer now.

Loyalty sucks.  But if paid off in the long run.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

That was mechanical drafting and tool design. We only had a couple of guys on $44, they were far more useful than half the engineers (not my team, they were great). To give you some idea university grads with good CAD skills were on $32 at the same time ie that extra 12 bucks bought us 20 years of experience.

cadnutcase, (off topic) as you can see I agree completely. It might seem a waste of time to have senior CAD designers detailing their own drawings, the temptation is to chuck that over the fence to a kid. Motivationally that is a bad thing to do, in my experience with draggers. Two reasons (a) they take great pride in producing their designs, and seem to enjoy the twiddly bits as much as the conceptual stuff and (b) it is very easy to introduce mistakes when detailing, and their experience is valuable even there.

Productivity wise a good CAD guy is about 4 times as productive as an average one, and the bad ones have a negative work output.

So that 44 bucks is a bit of a bargain, in context.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Greg,
(/off topic)
I agree, now we have to find a way to convince the bean counters.  At my last position, I had to justify to the accountant on how I could possibly be paying more per hour to my team, then 95% of the people in the rest of the company.

I told her, look at who is getting all the work done around here and walked out of her office.  20 minutes later I was called into the 2 bosses office saying I was right, but I handled it the wrong way.  She was just mad because they had just denied raises to her and her team.  She was also told by a friend (whoever he was) a cad guy shouldn't be making more than $20/hour, regardless of their skill.

This was one of many runnins with her.  

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

(OP)
Greg,

I get paid 20 an hour here in the states, and that is considered pretty good money. The most I know of any good, experienced CAD operator making in this area, at least in the civil engineering field, is about 25 an hour. The average salary in my area for Civil Techs is about 16-17 an hour.

And I think in general that the experienced ones are unappreciated by the bosses of many companies here in the states, but usually not by the engineers who they work with.

From looking at the jobs listings in Brisbane and other places, it really looks like they pay better in OZ.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Hi,

I am the new comer here, I work at mechanical engineering field. My pay is around 20/hr in Austin, Texas. I not only work at CAD design, but also the finite element analysis. The pay is reasonable?  

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

GeoSmith,
What software do you use?  Do you have a degree?  How many years experience?

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

The catch is usually that they are contract jobs with no benefits or holidays.  When I was in London, UK.  I was paid 20 pounds per hour($45Canadian at the time) on a temp AutoCAD job and I had never used AutoCAD before.  I actually had to ask the guy beside me how to draw a line because the tutorial I did the night before was a little foggy.  The job lasted 4 weeks.  $7000 in 4 weeks and I was off to travel Europe again.  It is nice sure but it isn't usually steady and you can't count on it.  You also need to take care of all the other factors that fulltime jobs usually look after.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

ewh,

Master, 2 years experience.
Pro/E, Pro/Mechanica

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Well, I guess it beats flipping burgers, but I'd have thought it was a bit low for a permanent job.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Geosmith we have a mechanical engineer (no masters degree) with 2 years experience in Canada and he makes approx $24 Canadian so it is about right.  He also pays more tax so the take home would be about bang on.  The bigger pay comes with experience and PEng status in Canada.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

I guess with the cost of living and all California pays a little better. Our office pays engineers with l.t. 5 years experience about 35/hr full time.

I've made a pretty good living so far in my life working as a contract engineer. I suppose I've been fortunate that I have always been able to get a job (except for a 10 month period when I was going through a divorce and didn't activly look for work).

I have also gotten a lot of fantastic experience in a variety of different areas of design. Volume Plastics, Capital Machinery, Automotive, for the last few years Aerospace. Usuall 9 month contracts that extend out to a year or more. $55/hr right now. They keept asking me to go full time... but well, my wife just got a job in Dallas, so we are moving to TX... maybe i'm in for sticker shock when i get there... But I'm not too worried, cause I have a pretty robust background, I'll find somtihing I like.

There are downsides to this "freelance" work; pay my own retirement, pay my own health insurance... which I gladly do. Often I have better plans than the people that I work with (and I guess I have the personality to save)... I wouldn't trade it for anything... It's like i'm my own boss, but without all the "actual" overhead. I kinda like it.

But I can work in pretty much

Wes C.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Amazing.

It seems my salary is pretty low, although there is no state tax in TX. Anyway, I think I need to find a job with my background. In fact, the position that I work require only CAD design experience with degree only.

Wes,

It seems you earn a good living. How many years of experience that you have and do you have a degree? So, what do you think the important selling power of myself?

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Geo,

Well, I started a new thread on me {insert ego here} thread731-134637 ... casue I'm leaving my job to go to texas myself (w/o a job)...

Anyway, I have an Engineering Degree, kind of a general degree even though my piece of (toilet) paper says it's mechanical.... I did my own thing and they let me graduate anyway (thank god papa was a professor)...

Here is my little rant (that seems to PO people on this fora) Americans need to learn to be creative again. If you want to maintain a career in engineering (over the long haul, I know it does in manufacturing / product design & dev, but I would think it does in other areas as well), you must trade in the details for a quantity of ideas. I think the place that I have enjoyed sucess in my small nitch of the world is i have made it a priority to stop trying to perfect my one and only idea to where it will work.

Having 50 decent ideas, is a lot better than having 2 or 3 good ideas. This is because (in engineering terms) statistically the chances of one of the 50 decent ideas turning into a great new (and well accepted) product is much greater than the chances of one of the three good ideas.

Learn to draw. As the old saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. Example... 2 weeks ago, about 7 engineers in a conference room talking about this problem that we have to deal with. Each takes turns trying to explain why we should do something "their" way. When it was my turn to speak, I had 4 little sketches (that were pretty decent) describing my solution to the problem. Neat. Packaged, and visually representative of the way (i invision) the end product to look.. Maybe my idea was not the best one in the room. But the boss could see it, and that is what we are doing.

Read the book The Art of Innovation by Tom Kelly. It is a great book about the philosiphy of a company called IDEO. It is a fantastic book. My dad gave it to me years ago when it came out. I have used it like a bible, and a guidebook to work ever sense.

IMHO no one ever got anywhere being satisfied with the status quo. Rock the boat. Be a little different. Don't buy into what someone else thinks until you process it a little and really agree with them. Don't get caught up in titles and heiarchies, management structures, and professional organizations.

But you gotta make your own way. What I do only works for me, because it fits with my personality and style. I'm sure what works for you will not be the same. Enjoy life.   Keep your eye out for the "New New (i love that term) Thing"

Wes C.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

hmm...  I'd be disatisfied with $20/hr.  My first job out of college (BSME), with essentially no CAD experience (they trained), paid about $23/hr.  My greatest qualifications were that I paid attention in school (they tested) and I liked taking apart and/or breaking cars.  The pay has gone up since then, of course.  My wife recently left a job as a secretary (no degree) making $17/hr, because I accepted (after much agonizing) a job that paid about as much as we made together last year.  The above experiences were all in the midwest, where salaries are supposed to be lower than on the coasts.

I've heard of IDEO before - a coworker at my last job asked whether I'd ever considered interviewing with them.  I hadn't (I'd never heard of them before he asked).  I wonder if he'd read that book - he was the sort who would get very excited about things he read in such books.  I have always been one to wonder whether someone was trying to get rid of me with a suggestion such as that...

A different coworker always called me "status quo boy," as in "can't resist challenging the."  That was partly because he heard about the way I got (just about) thrown out on my ear at the first job, and some conversations we shared, and some that he overheard, at our mutual employer.  

I tried being a contractor for almost a year - I was always worried about getting fired.  Then I was a consultant for a while - same concern.  Now I'm trying to follow the rules a little more closely, and I seem to sleep a bit better at night.

What were we talking about again?  Oh yeah, $20/hr bad.  More better.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

(OP)
Keep in mind that though I make 20 an hour, I dont have a degree and am not an engineer. I am just a Civil Designer, albeit one with over 10 years experience, and I am located in an area where the average wage for ALL jobs is about 13 bucks an hour. I agree that 20 an hour for an engineer is pretty shoddy at any location.

That said, I still wonder if I can make more in other parts of the country, or on a contract basis as opposed to being an employee. Realistically, I wont leave the US anytime soon, but the Pacific Northwest is a potential destination for us.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Unqual dragger? Figure on 50-80% as much as a degreed engineer.

Sorry, it is a closed shop, we don't just go to uni for drugs and chicks (well OK, I did mostly, but picked up some o' that heavy math on the way).

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

(OP)
Greg,

Yeah, college just wasnt for me at that age. I am sure I could go now and have the appreciation and motivation to do well and get that degree, but during my college years, I lacked those things.

Aside from that, I enjoy the drawing/problem solving aspect of what I do and I dont have to have the paperwork and red tape or the dealing with the public that the engineers have to do. And, from talking to them, most of them have a strong disdain for that aspect of what they do.

The original point of my post was that I was seeing ads in Australia (specifically Brisbane) for civil technicians (drafters, CADD operators - not engineers) that were paying 60k-70k (or about 30-35 bucks an hour) a year.

Those salaries appear attractive to someone like myself here in the states. Even in the more expensive areas of the US, I have never seen an ad from someone willing to pay that kind of dough for a Civil Tech.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

GeoSmith,
  $20/hr with your background is not enough.  There are long term contract positions in the Dallas area paying $45/hr and up for designers with aerospace experience with no degree required.  Even if you figure a direct position may be worth one half of a contract rate, you are still getting a bad deal.  I don't know what the market is for ProE in Austin, but I'd definitely look around for something better.

razzy,
  I can definitely relate.  Having worked in the aerospace industry for about 25 years, I am much happier dealing with the modeling/design/documentation aspect than I would be handling all of the other responsibilities that go with the title "engineer".  

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

$20/hr with your background is not enough.

What background?  I mean 2 years experience is nothing.  If I were working with limited experience I would be more worried about the experience I was getting to make more later (when you can make the big bucks) then your wage now.  Young engineers should focus on gaining good experience not weather they make $20/hour or $25/hour.

It is similar to the arguement between electricains and electrical engineers.  The electrician with 4 years exp can be making $28/hour and the engineer with 4 years exp can be making $28/hour.  But after 10 years the electricain is still making $28/hour well the engineer makes $40/hour.  Some people actually look at the $28 to $28 comparison and decide to be elctricians because the school is easier.  I can tell you they may regret it later.  Put in time when you are young and it will pay off later.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Thanks wes616,

Your experience is worth for reference. I totally agree that American need to do more innovative and creative. Otherwise, the out-sourcing to other developing countries will be soon or later for the designs. Ideas is important to solve the problems. I will buy the book you mentioned for reference. Goodluck for your stay at TX and hope you enjoy here.

ewh,

My background is mechanical engineering and I am working at the ball valve designs using Pro/E. I am not sure about Aerospace might be paid well. Because what we need is CAD design experience and few finite element analysis. I know I am still young (around 27), gaining experience is really important than the money I get. But, sometimes, I feel unhappy when compared with other people working at different industries and areas with same degree.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Geo, are you in the US on an H1 visa, perchance?

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

When comparing taxes across countries you have to also compare whet benefits you receive from the government.

Australia, like Canada has a government medical program. You get medical care for your taxes and should consider this when making the comparison. There is also a wide social safety net in place that does not exist in the US to the same degree of universality.

I know that if you have a job that these may not matter since your employer will pay your medical care and unemployment insurance, but if you were starting or running  a company these costs can be significant.

(One of the reasons why a lot of automotive production is moving from the US to Canada, GM for example is paying billions in health care costs for US workers and retirees that they do not have to pay in Canada due to universal government health care.)

Before anyone gets off on me, yes there are significant differences between the level of health care a fully insured American receives and that that all Canadians get. However our average health care costs are less than 60% of US costs and we have a longer life expectancy so we must be doing something right.


If you want salary comparisons then all Canadian provincial associations have published salary surveys. See www.apegm.mb.ca for the Manitoba one and they have links to all other associations any you can download at least a summary of salary data for each province.


Fully qualified senior engineers in Manitoba run around $CDN 80K and up with top end being about $CDN 120k. New grads are getting around $CDN 35-40K. New P.Eng’s are $CDN 50-60k. Manitoba is one of the lower paying provinces. Alberta would be about 20% higher or the same amounts but in US dollars.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

GeoSmith,
I agree that experience is imortant, especially if you wish to stay in that field.  My comments referred more to the fact that your CAD and FEA experience is valuable in the contract industry.  You gain exposure to a variety of disciplines and different areas of the country (if you choose to travel).  Of course, while you may be paid much more, there is much less job security (as if there is much of that anywhere anymore).

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Quote:

you may be paid much more, there is much less job security (as if there is much of that anywhere anymore)

I live by this quote... call me greedy. Sometimes it's every man for himself.

My first job out of college was with a blue chip manufacturer. There were a bunch of layoff. I lost my job.... To the horror of my friends and family (my dad especially. He told me when I got that job, that it would be a place I would spend a career). So much for riding for the brand... Better to work for yourself anyway.

Wes C.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

I am a US citizen!

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

You know I hate to talk about salary but one thing is kind of clear.

Almost every job I have taken is less than the salary surveys show. I have been in the lowest 10% in two different fields and perhaps 3 different jobs.

I have to think it is a self esteem issue with me, that or being single I just don't need the money. I mean overall my self esteem is high but for some reason it isn't always great career wise. Maybe I'm too sensitive.

RE: Anyone see the salaries being offered in Australia?

Bugger salary ... move to aus for the lifestyle ;) I'd choose a job that paid $50k which I loved, over a job that paid $80k that I did not enjoy ... Also- you gotta love Australian Summers, beaches, and laid back attitude!

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