×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Mr or Dr

Mr or Dr

(OP)
If you know that a fellow engineer has a Ph.D, like Sijin Smithe, Ph.D, PE, do you address letters to him as

Dear Mr, Smithe

or

Dear Dr. Smithe

RE: Mr or Dr

Typically, if "Dr. X" knows that you know he has a Ph.D., it's best to address him as "Dr.", if for no other reason than that it is simply poor manners not to.  Even if Dr.X doesn't really care, someone else might think it less than professional.  Such things take on a life of their own.

RE: Mr or Dr

I personaly don't call anyone Dr unless he/she has a Doctorate or is a medical doctor.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Mr or Dr

How do they introduce themselves? Do they sign letters with the Dr designation?

I always use the name by which people introduce themselves. I go by Rick and consider it very rude for someone outside my immediate family to call me Richard.

Call people the way that they call themselves.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: Mr or Dr

"I personaly don't call anyone Dr unless he/she has a Doctorate or is a medical doctor."

What other kinds are there?

Personally, If asked for my full name (opening a bank account, buying a new mobile phone are two recent examples), I would wirte on the form "Dr Michael Francis Platten". In social situations, I don't use Dr at all (except in jest). I don't use it in my hand-written signature. To friends and close colleauges I am "Mikey".

Professionally, I would use "Dr Michael F Platten" (eg. typed after my hand written signature) and on my business card it says "Dr Michael F Platten, PhD" which is the technically correct form (it distinguishes me from "Dr Michael F Platten, MD"). However, If I am introduced professionally to someone face-to-face or on the telephone I would just say "Michael Platten"

The situation becomes even more confused in parts of Europe where "Engineer" is a Professional title too. You see business cards with "Dr Ir Sijin Smithe, PhD, EurIng" or "Dr Ing Sijin Smithe" (depending on the country).

I am in no way offended if people call me Mr - although I do know some people who are! My one vanity is to have my degree certificate on the wall on the stairs at home, but only for the flowery language printed on it. "... by resolution of the Senate, has been awarded the degree of Doctor of Philosophy and is entitled to all the privilages attendent thereto."

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Mr or Dr

I would refer to them as they refer to themselves. In the absense of this information I would refer to them as Dr.

RE: Mr or Dr

The school pricipals at my kids schools have PHD's. They want all students to call them "Dr." I tell them all the time to just call them "Mr/Mrs/Ms whatever".

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Mr or Dr

Using what are really job titles in everyday life has always struck me as either silly or pompous.  When my father has to deal with people who pre/post fix their rank onto their name, he counters with his: Lance Corporal (rtd).

RE: Mr or Dr

Quote (MikeyP):

on my business card it says "Dr Michael F Platten, PhD" which is the technically correct form

I have been told several times that, in the UK at least, you should not write "Dr Michael F Platten, PhD", as you are saying the same thing twice, and that it should either be: Dr Michael F Platten, or Michael F Platten, PhD.  Similarly, you can write Mr. J. Doe, or J. Doe Esq, but not Mr. J. Doe Esq.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's probably simply another "across the pond" difference...

According to my FEANI registration documents, Eur. Ing. should always come first before anything else, and must never be used as a suffix.

Hence, it should be (according to FEANI at any rate):
"Eur. Ing. Dr. Sijin Smithe", or "Eur. Ing. Sijin Smythe, Ph.D." (Note: Eur. Ing. and Mr. are not allowed)

You could also use : "Eur. Ing. Dr. Sijin Smithe, B.Sc., C. Eng, FIChemE", since IChemE, Engineering Council and FEANI are all separate bodies with separate and distinct registration requirements.

Although I am FEANI registered, the ONLY people who use the "Eur. Ing." title are the IChemE, the Engineering Council and FEANI.  I am legally entitled to use it on my driving licence, passport etc.,  I just don't.

RE: Mr or Dr

A lot depends on context.  In professional or settings and correspondence, it is always best to use the title.

Of course, things change in casual settings.  If Dr. Platten were to say, "Call me 'Mike'", that's how I would address him.

My father was a Ph.D. chemist, and I have a good friend ho is an engineering professor.  With them, the term "doctor" is almost a term of respectful endearment (especially when I'm asking for free advice).

One thing I can not abide is the deliberate omission of the title as a backhanded insult.  Very crass.

RE: Mr or Dr

In the UK a person passes his medical exams to become Dr. Several promotions later he becomes a consultant.  consultants are known as Mr again!  To call a consultant Dr is to insult him.

RE: Mr or Dr

In Germany if someone has more than one doctorate then he is referred to as Dr. Dr. Muller etc.
On the other hand some people who have a doctorate but no longer use it, often are not adrressed by the title. For example, in the UK the boss at my last company had a doctorate and specialised in ultrasonics but since he was the MD he was referred as Mr. XXXX, M.D. (Managing director, not medical doctor).
Fun, isn't it? another area for no hard and fast rules.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: Mr or Dr

on the tv show friends

Ross Gheller : "But I am a doctor.... a P-H-D is a doctor!"

Joey: "Sure Ross. Whatever you say."

My dad is a professor of engineering. About 2 years ago, I was in his office (a spartain mess). There are pictures of me and my brother and my mom on his wall. A poster of Einstein riding a bike. A blueprint (schematic) of the "hubble", but no diploma.

ME - Dad, don't you show off your pretty piece of paper.

DAD (think thick sothern accent) - Sure, son, I show it off... (thinking) now where the heck did i put it...

he looks around... I look around... moving a couple of stacks of loose notepapers, and a half drank cup of week old coffee, we came across his dust coverd framed doctorate. He'd been using it for a laptray, to eat lunch on while working....

moral... to each is own when it comes to a doctorate... some care more than others... Old Pops, gets a kick outta being call Professor BLA BLA BLA... He actually loves it when he walks around campus and gets greeted, with, "Yo, Prof... or What's up prof!" I've never seen him sign his name with it... and his card says "Dad Ofmine PhD, PE"

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

Reminds me of a good friend of mine.  I have known my friend Al since 1st grade.  Absolutely brilliant fellow and academically driven: BSEE, BS Physics, MSIO, MBA, CPA (just to see if he could pass on the first try), JD (law degree).

Where Al works, most people have a wall full of dimplomae and cetificates.  Al has only one on his wall: in the state of New Jersey, he is a licensed fortune teller!

RE: Mr or Dr

Tick,

Your friend Al and My pops would get along great!

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

While working on some DOD stuff a few years back I ran into a guy working on one of the projects for NASA... His business card read:

Rocket Scientist

Cool eh?

RE: Mr or Dr

I know many PhD's who do not flaunt it or insist on being called Doctor.  Usually the only indication of their being a Doctor is the initials after their names on their business cards or at their type written names on the bottom of letters. Only the pompous ones introduce themselves as Doctor.

Unless you really need the services of an expert, a medical doctor, or an attorney, who really cares if people have a PhD, MD, or law degree?  Really, why should they be specially addressed?  It just means they may have gone to school for a few more years than other people.  Having an advanced degree does not necessarily mean the person is competent or deserving of high respect.  I've met many dumb doctors, professors, and lawyers.

Sincerely,
Mr. Anonymous, Jr., V.P., B.S., M.S., P.E., P.L.S.
(Call me anything you want; just pay me!)

RE: Mr or Dr

Well Mr. Anonymous, Jr., V.P., B.S., M.S., P.E., P.L.S.... I like your way of thinking...

Quote:

(Call me anything you want; just pay me!)


Lets just hope you're not one of those that cringes when I call myself an "engineer" cause I don't have a PE that goes after my name.... :D

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

The title "Dr" (MD or PhD) is one that remains with you for life, whether you use it or not. Does anyone know if when a surgeon retires, their title reverts back from Mr to Dr? I know that the academic title "Professor" (in the UK definition of the word) is one that comes with the job and unless you are awarded "Emeritus" status on retirement, the title goes when you do.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Mr or Dr

I am currently working on a masters degree, and it would be dangerous to my grades and standing to refer to my professors as anything but Doctor..... But such is the world of academia....

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: Mr or Dr

Does anyone know how a Doctorate in Engineering is referred to as an abbreviation?  Not a Doctorate of Science in Engineering or a PhD in Engineering, but a Doctorate of Engineering.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Mr or Dr

In the UK, the Doctorate of Engineering is "EngD" except at the Oxford University where it is, I think, "DEng".

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Mr or Dr

sms - try Sir and Mame !:)

Qshake - I have seen both "D.Eng." and "Eng D." The Dr's of Eng that I've met have not been "hard science" researchers, but more Process oriented people... Studdying Human Factors in Manufacturing, etc etc...

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

i love this thread...

great postings...

where i come from, first name basis is ok if we are talking among college graduates...

lawyers like to be called doctors, i call them abogado (counselor)... if they complain... then i say: i do have a degree too, so we either use the formal addressing for all or we don't, what's your pleasure?

it is very funny... when you try to make fun of somebody you use the complete formal addressing... i.e. engineer or doctor... when you really want to offend somebody: estimado licenciado (dear licensed)

absurd... but effective.

saludos.
a.

RE: Mr or Dr

Wes616: I generally use both Doctor and sir/ma'm just to be safe....

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: Mr or Dr

My roommate was very excited to sign his name as Dr. when he first graduated with a PhD in physics.  Then he heard about recent graduate had signed in that way to a hotel.  The hotel woke them in the middle of the night assuming that he was a medical doctor, calling him before they tried the ambulance.  Now on the rare occasion he does use doctor, he makes sure to add PhD at the end.

RE: Mr or Dr

Bacon4life... You have made an excellent point. In emergency situations, a precious few minutes can be waisted looking for a Doctor of English or Anthropology instead of a Doctor of Medicine or Ostopathy. PhD.'s should BE CAREFUL... It sounds to me (as unfortunately as it may be) a Lawsuit waiting to happen.!

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

My wife could add RN to her name, but chooses not to because of the same reason Bacon4life listed.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Mr or Dr

My niece will not let her Uncle an MD listen to her heart. She claims that “he is not a real doctor he is only Uncle Ken, he wears shorts, drinks beer and fishes.”

It many parts of the world, when you formally address a Ph.D. holder it is with Professor title, even if they are not a university teacher.

Vita sine litteris mors est.

RE: Mr or Dr

Interesting read from wikipedia:

Doctor means teacher in Latin. It has been used continuously as an honored academic title for over a millennium in Europe, where it dates back to the rise of the university. This use spread to the Americas, former European colonies, and is now prevalent in most of the world. As a prefix – “Dr” – its primary designation is a person who has obtained a doctorate — that is, an advanced university degree whose completion involves extensive research.

However, in the last two centuries of popular use in English-speaking and many other countries, the noun doctor has come to be used widely to refer to physicians (medical doctors), who are also granted use of the prefix as a courtesy title, whether or not they hold doctorates. The primary medical qualification in the UK and in many Commonwealth Countries is the degree of 'Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery' (MB BS, MB ChB, BM BCh or MB BChir, depending on the University granting the award). After qualification, medical practitioners may then read for the postgraduate research degree of 'Doctor of Medicine'.

RE: Mr or Dr

An earned PhD degree holder can chose to affix Dr to his name.

I shall provide instances where people who have never attended schools or had a formal education call themselves Dr. These are politicians and film stars who have been honoured by some university. Sycophancy!!. These people use the Dr term very freely in their publicity campaigns and demand that they be addressed as Dr.I abhor such practices.

RE: Mr or Dr

I looked in the Los Angeles Phone book, and along with many others, there is 1 person named Medical Doctor and one named Evil Doctor and my favorite there are 3 Witch Doctors

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

For the common instance of signing a registry at a hotel, I would think we would not be so vain as to sign our entry as Doctor so and so or So and so, Doctor.....

The relevance of that term and honor seems appropriate only for those occasions where credentials are appropriately called for: scientific/engineering reports, legal arenas for expert opinions, letters that propose a formulation or theory or opinion which demand that the author have the academic knowledge to make such hyptheses.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

RE: Mr or Dr

Exactly, Qshake.  A cocktail party isn't one of those occasions.

RE: Mr or Dr

When I was at university there was someone in my class who's surname was D'eath.  We so much wanted him to stay on for a PhD!

RE: Mr or Dr

Dr. Death. Um, Jack Kevorkian?

--------------------
Bring back the HP-15
www.hp15c.org
--------------------

RE: Mr or Dr

I work within a University research lab. Everyone is a Dr of something. Most are also professors.
I try not to call anyone Dr but some of these guys have such big egos.
It's like a class thing, I left the UK and moved to the States  hoping to get away from the whole class structure.
But it's alive and kicking here in the university.

One guy a Dr of electrical engineering hasn't spoke to me in weeks because I addressed him by his first name.
His loss. I love the statement
'Having an advanced degree does not necessarily mean the person is competent or deserving of high respect.  I've met many dumb doctors, professors, and lawyers.'
I think I will print it out and post it above my desk..

RE: Mr or Dr

My dad reminded me yesterday that one of his collegues at the school he teaches at is "Dr. Panik." - which I always thought was a funny name..

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

My brother's eye doctor is named Dr. Doctor.  Maybe he's just stuttering when he introduces himself?

RE: Mr or Dr

Aren't lawyers who have a JD (Juris Doctor) addressed as Mr./Mrs./Miss? Even in the court room, where formalities are required and the judge addressed as "Your Honor," I've never heard a lawyer addressed as Dr.

Dr. is for doctorates in the medical field, pompous PhDs, and even more pompous honorary doctorates.

Then there is the weird practice of preceding a higher title with Mr. or Madam while omitting the name.
"Mr. President" or "Madam Chairman."

RE: Mr or Dr

(OP)
stevenal wrote: Then there is the weird practice of preceding a higher title with Mr. or Madam while omitting the name.
"Mr. President" or "Madam Chairman."

Wrong.  Madam refers to the person while Chairman refers to the position occupied by that person.  This is why the terms Chairwoman and Chairperson are incorrect (nonexistent in the language).  The same is true for “Mr. President"; Mr. refers to the person while President refers to the position occupied by that person.


RE: Mr or Dr

This talk about Doctors reminds me of a scene from "Spies Like Us" with Chevy Chase and Dan Aykroyd where they were disguised as doctors in a room full of real doctors.

RE: Mr or Dr

So there is no title in "Pres. Jones?" Only a position and person? I thought the position conveyed the title. Maybe we should we say "Mr. Pres. Jones?"

RE: Mr or Dr

Stevenal wrote

Quote:

Dr. is for doctorates in the medical field, pompous PhDs, and even more pompous honorary doctorates.
Surely it is common courtesty to address people how they want to be addressed. If the addresser thinks it pompous, then that is their opinion and their problem. Someone with a doctorate (note that, as mentioned previously, most medical doctors do not hold doctorates) is literally entitled to use "Dr" so why shouldn't they?

Interestingly, in the scientific literature, titles (eg Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Sir) or positions (eg Professor) are rarely used because publications are (or should be) judged by their content not by the status or sex of the authors.

M

or should I say ...

Dr Michael F Platten, BEng, PhD, BLBM, MTC, BPBH
(Bronze Latin and Ballroom Medal, Member of the Tufty Club, Blue Peter Badge Holder)

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Mr or Dr

doc·tor·ate (d?k't?r-?t)
n.
The degree or status of a doctor as conferred by a university.

Seems to me an MD (medical Doctor) degree would qualify.

I'm happy to address you any way you wish. There is a marine research center near here full of PhDs and post docs that go by Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms, or Prof. if they happen be one. Maybe it's a regional thing.

RE: Mr or Dr

I wish to be addressed by the conformation that I am most proud of...

henceforth; Mr. Wes C., Eagle Scout.

Wes C.

RE: Mr or Dr

Stevenal, Your dictionary does not tell the whole story. Please read Whyun's post above.

Of course I am not saying that MDs should not use the title doctor. They are conferred that title on graduation and can use it as they wish.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Mr or Dr

Dr. Death?
Reminds me that when I was a kid our local GP (General Practicioner) was Dr. Fear.

Incidently, while GPs are called doctor, specialists seem equally attached to their "Mr." Status, a situation where the title "Mr." has more status than "Dr".

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources