Mr or Dr
Mr or Dr
(OP)
If you know that a fellow engineer has a Ph.D, like Sijin Smithe, Ph.D, PE, do you address letters to him as
Dear Mr, Smithe
or
Dear Dr. Smithe
Dear Mr, Smithe
or
Dear Dr. Smithe
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RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Mr or Dr
I always use the name by which people introduce themselves. I go by Rick and consider it very rude for someone outside my immediate family to call me Richard.
Call people the way that they call themselves.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: Mr or Dr
What other kinds are there?
Personally, If asked for my full name (opening a bank account, buying a new mobile phone are two recent examples), I would wirte on the form "Dr Michael Francis Platten". In social situations, I don't use Dr at all (except in jest). I don't use it in my hand-written signature. To friends and close colleauges I am "Mikey".
Professionally, I would use "Dr Michael F Platten" (eg. typed after my hand written signature) and on my business card it says "Dr Michael F Platten, PhD" which is the technically correct form (it distinguishes me from "Dr Michael F Platten, MD"). However, If I am introduced professionally to someone face-to-face or on the telephone I would just say "Michael Platten"
The situation becomes even more confused in parts of Europe where "Engineer" is a Professional title too. You see business cards with "Dr Ir Sijin Smithe, PhD, EurIng" or "Dr Ing Sijin Smithe" (depending on the country).
I am in no way offended if people call me Mr - although I do know some people who are! My one vanity is to have my degree certificate on the wall on the stairs at home, but only for the flowery language printed on it. "... by resolution of the Senate, has been awarded the degree of Doctor of Philosophy and is entitled to all the privilages attendent thereto."
M
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
I have been told several times that, in the UK at least, you should not write "Dr Michael F Platten, PhD", as you are saying the same thing twice, and that it should either be: Dr Michael F Platten, or Michael F Platten, PhD. Similarly, you can write Mr. J. Doe, or J. Doe Esq, but not Mr. J. Doe Esq.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's probably simply another "across the pond" difference...
According to my FEANI registration documents, Eur. Ing. should always come first before anything else, and must never be used as a suffix.
Hence, it should be (according to FEANI at any rate):
"Eur. Ing. Dr. Sijin Smithe", or "Eur. Ing. Sijin Smythe, Ph.D." (Note: Eur. Ing. and Mr. are not allowed)
You could also use : "Eur. Ing. Dr. Sijin Smithe, B.Sc., C. Eng, FIChemE", since IChemE, Engineering Council and FEANI are all separate bodies with separate and distinct registration requirements.
Although I am FEANI registered, the ONLY people who use the "Eur. Ing." title are the IChemE, the Engineering Council and FEANI. I am legally entitled to use it on my driving licence, passport etc., I just don't.
RE: Mr or Dr
Of course, things change in casual settings. If Dr. Platten were to say, "Call me 'Mike'", that's how I would address him.
My father was a Ph.D. chemist, and I have a good friend ho is an engineering professor. With them, the term "doctor" is almost a term of respectful endearment (especially when I'm asking for free advice).
One thing I can not abide is the deliberate omission of the title as a backhanded insult. Very crass.
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
On the other hand some people who have a doctorate but no longer use it, often are not adrressed by the title. For example, in the UK the boss at my last company had a doctorate and specialised in ultrasonics but since he was the MD he was referred as Mr. XXXX, M.D. (Managing director, not medical doctor).
Fun, isn't it? another area for no hard and fast rules.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Mr or Dr
Ross Gheller : "But I am a doctor.... a P-H-D is a doctor!"
Joey: "Sure Ross. Whatever you say."
My dad is a professor of engineering. About 2 years ago, I was in his office (a spartain mess). There are pictures of me and my brother and my mom on his wall. A poster of Einstein riding a bike. A blueprint (schematic) of the "hubble", but no diploma.
ME - Dad, don't you show off your pretty piece of paper.
DAD (think thick sothern accent) - Sure, son, I show it off... (thinking) now where the heck did i put it...
he looks around... I look around... moving a couple of stacks of loose notepapers, and a half drank cup of week old coffee, we came across his dust coverd framed doctorate. He'd been using it for a laptray, to eat lunch on while working....
moral... to each is own when it comes to a doctorate... some care more than others... Old Pops, gets a kick outta being call Professor BLA BLA BLA... He actually loves it when he walks around campus and gets greeted, with, "Yo, Prof... or What's up prof!" I've never seen him sign his name with it... and his card says "Dad Ofmine PhD, PE"
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
Where Al works, most people have a wall full of dimplomae and cetificates. Al has only one on his wall: in the state of New Jersey, he is a licensed fortune teller!
RE: Mr or Dr
Your friend Al and My pops would get along great!
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
Rocket Scientist
Cool eh?
RE: Mr or Dr
Unless you really need the services of an expert, a medical doctor, or an attorney, who really cares if people have a PhD, MD, or law degree? Really, why should they be specially addressed? It just means they may have gone to school for a few more years than other people. Having an advanced degree does not necessarily mean the person is competent or deserving of high respect. I've met many dumb doctors, professors, and lawyers.
Sincerely,
Mr. Anonymous, Jr., V.P., B.S., M.S., P.E., P.L.S.
(Call me anything you want; just pay me!)
RE: Mr or Dr
Lets just hope you're not one of those that cringes when I call myself an "engineer" cause I don't have a PE that goes after my name.... :D
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
(Senior Designer)
Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Mr or Dr
M
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: Mr or Dr
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Mr or Dr
Regards,

Qshake
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
RE: Mr or Dr
M
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: Mr or Dr
Qshake - I have seen both "D.Eng." and "Eng D." The Dr's of Eng that I've met have not been "hard science" researchers, but more Process oriented people... Studdying Human Factors in Manufacturing, etc etc...
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
great postings...
where i come from, first name basis is ok if we are talking among college graduates...
lawyers like to be called doctors, i call them abogado (counselor)... if they complain... then i say: i do have a degree too, so we either use the formal addressing for all or we don't, what's your pleasure?
it is very funny... when you try to make fun of somebody you use the complete formal addressing... i.e. engineer or doctor... when you really want to offend somebody: estimado licenciado (dear licensed)
absurd... but effective.
saludos.
a.
RE: Mr or Dr
-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716
RE: Mr or Dr
It many parts of the world, when you formally address a Ph.D. holder it is with Professor title, even if they are not a university teacher.
Vita sine litteris mors est.
RE: Mr or Dr
Doctor means teacher in Latin. It has been used continuously as an honored academic title for over a millennium in Europe, where it dates back to the rise of the university. This use spread to the Americas, former European colonies, and is now prevalent in most of the world. As a prefix – “Dr” – its primary designation is a person who has obtained a doctorate — that is, an advanced university degree whose completion involves extensive research.
However, in the last two centuries of popular use in English-speaking and many other countries, the noun doctor has come to be used widely to refer to physicians (medical doctors), who are also granted use of the prefix as a courtesy title, whether or not they hold doctorates. The primary medical qualification in the UK and in many Commonwealth Countries is the degree of 'Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery' (MB BS, MB ChB, BM BCh or MB BChir, depending on the University granting the award). After qualification, medical practitioners may then read for the postgraduate research degree of 'Doctor of Medicine'.
RE: Mr or Dr
I shall provide instances where people who have never attended schools or had a formal education call themselves Dr. These are politicians and film stars who have been honoured by some university. Sycophancy!!. These people use the Dr term very freely in their publicity campaigns and demand that they be addressed as Dr.I abhor such practices.
RE: Mr or Dr
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
The relevance of that term and honor seems appropriate only for those occasions where credentials are appropriately called for: scientific/engineering reports, legal arenas for expert opinions, letters that propose a formulation or theory or opinion which demand that the author have the academic knowledge to make such hyptheses.
Regards,

Qshake
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
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Bring back the HP-15
www.hp15c.org
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RE: Mr or Dr
I try not to call anyone Dr but some of these guys have such big egos.
It's like a class thing, I left the UK and moved to the States hoping to get away from the whole class structure.
But it's alive and kicking here in the university.
One guy a Dr of electrical engineering hasn't spoke to me in weeks because I addressed him by his first name.
His loss. I love the statement
'Having an advanced degree does not necessarily mean the person is competent or deserving of high respect. I've met many dumb doctors, professors, and lawyers.'
I think I will print it out and post it above my desk..
RE: Mr or Dr
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
Dr. is for doctorates in the medical field, pompous PhDs, and even more pompous honorary doctorates.
Then there is the weird practice of preceding a higher title with Mr. or Madam while omitting the name.
"Mr. President" or "Madam Chairman."
RE: Mr or Dr
"Mr. President" or "Madam Chairman."
Wrong. Madam refers to the person while Chairman refers to the position occupied by that person. This is why the terms Chairwoman and Chairperson are incorrect (nonexistent in the language). The same is true for “Mr. President"; Mr. refers to the person while President refers to the position occupied by that person.
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
RE: Mr or Dr
Surely it is common courtesty to address people how they want to be addressed. If the addresser thinks it pompous, then that is their opinion and their problem. Someone with a doctorate (note that, as mentioned previously, most medical doctors do not hold doctorates) is literally entitled to use "Dr" so why shouldn't they?
Interestingly, in the scientific literature, titles (eg Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Sir) or positions (eg Professor) are rarely used because publications are (or should be) judged by their content not by the status or sex of the authors.
M
or should I say ...
Dr Michael F Platten, BEng, PhD, BLBM, MTC, BPBH
(Bronze Latin and Ballroom Medal, Member of the Tufty Club, Blue Peter Badge Holder)
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: Mr or Dr
n.
The degree or status of a doctor as conferred by a university.
Seems to me an MD (medical Doctor) degree would qualify.
I'm happy to address you any way you wish. There is a marine research center near here full of PhDs and post docs that go by Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms, or Prof. if they happen be one. Maybe it's a regional thing.
RE: Mr or Dr
henceforth; Mr. Wes C., Eagle Scout.
Wes C.
RE: Mr or Dr
Of course I am not saying that MDs should not use the title doctor. They are conferred that title on graduation and can use it as they wish.
M
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: Mr or Dr
Reminds me that when I was a kid our local GP (General Practicioner) was Dr. Fear.
Incidently, while GPs are called doctor, specialists seem equally attached to their "Mr." Status, a situation where the title "Mr." has more status than "Dr".
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Mr or Dr
http: