JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
(OP)
We are designing a pipeline to send Extra heavy Oil diluted with a water composition of 0.135 % mol. We are making the hydraulics calculations in Pipephase. However we are getting from the program that the stream increases their temperature when the pressure drop. It is possible this effect on hydrocarbons???
See the study cases:
First Case
Operation Temperature (source) = 98° F
Ambient Temperature = 98° F
The pipeline has 300 meters; the initial pressure is 500 psig and arrives to the Plant at 50 psig. However the temperature is increased at 103 °F in the plant.
Second Case
Operation Temperature (source) = 66° F
Ambient Temperature = 66° F
The pipeline has 300 meters; the source pressure is 1281 psig and arrives to the Plant at 50 psig. However the temperature is increased at 77 °F in the plant.
We consult this issue with the provider of the simulation program, and they mentioned that this effect it is possible in some fluids. They gave me an internet address in order to see an possible explanation of this behavior:
http: //www.mads ci.org/pos ts/archive s/jun2000/ 959891423. Ph.q.htmla Joule Thompson effect
I would like to know if this thermal effect is possible in hydrocarbons.
See the study cases:
First Case
Operation Temperature (source) = 98° F
Ambient Temperature = 98° F
The pipeline has 300 meters; the initial pressure is 500 psig and arrives to the Plant at 50 psig. However the temperature is increased at 103 °F in the plant.
Second Case
Operation Temperature (source) = 66° F
Ambient Temperature = 66° F
The pipeline has 300 meters; the source pressure is 1281 psig and arrives to the Plant at 50 psig. However the temperature is increased at 77 °F in the plant.
We consult this issue with the provider of the simulation program, and they mentioned that this effect it is possible in some fluids. They gave me an internet address in order to see an possible explanation of this behavior:
http:
I would like to know if this thermal effect is possible in hydrocarbons.





RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
http
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
For liquid flow, the change in kinetic energy can usually be neglected and therefore with no heat transfer the J-T effect is applicable. However, your case is with a mixture.
The program vendor should justify their formulation, etc. for the J-T effect with mixtures?
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
http://www.energy-solutions.com/articles/0204.pdf
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Basic point is the pressure energy which the liquid has at the inlet has come down and it has to appear in some other form of energy. Assuming the dia of pipe is same at inlet and outlet, it has to appear as expanded specific volume and increased temperature. As the volume change is negligible for liquids, it mostly appears as increase in temperature. Look at it this way: The frictional energy has eaten up the pressure drop and what happens to the frictional energy produced? It has to appear as heat(especially for liquids). Simple as that!!
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
I am confused. Are you saying that the Joule-Thomson effect applies to liquids?
Milt Beychok
Milton Beychok
(Contact me at www.air-dispersion.com)
.
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
J-T expansions applies to real fluids.
There are three cases where negative J-T coefficients may be encountered:
1. A high-temperature gas
2. A low-temperature liquid
3. A very high-pressure fluid (gas or liquid)
Table 3-150 on Perry VI brings the "reduced" conditions P/Pc, T/Tc, to give the approximate configuration of the J-T inversion curve.
When dealing with a mixture of hydrocarbons, pseudo-reduced conditions are generally used.
The table shows that fluids with Tr values less than about 0.7, or greater than approximately 5, as well as for Pr > 12, there is a good chance that fluids heat up on expansion (μJ-T<0).
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Consider the enthalpy of a fluid in terms of temperature and pressure
h=h(T,P), the J-T,coef,(mu), may be obtained with partial differentiation keeping h as a constant.
mu= dt/dp at h=constant
Regards
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Regards
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
In practise i have never heard about the JT effect giving a significant contribution to liquids - however as reena1957 points out the frictional energy leads to heating of the liquid. This is most visible in valves. In pipeline heat exchange with the surroundings will make this "invisible".
On a related note: A pressuredrop of 450 psi (31 bar) or 1200 psi 83 in just 300 metres indicates to me that you have a very high velocity (even with high density/viscosity). Is this an emulsion?
Best regards
Morten
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
There is an article worth reading titled Working with fluids that warm upon expansion by John J. Carroll, under the general heading of [b]Engineering Practice[b] in the ChE issue of September 1999.
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
It was a mistake in the original message.
25362 I am trying to found this article, thanks againt to all for your valuable contibutions.
Regards,
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Best regards
Morten
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Regards
Hianbo
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Using the numbers given by hianbo above in a simple energy balance (i.e. ignoring any J-T effect) and assuming an SG of 0.8 and a specific heat of 0.5 I get an expected temperature rise of 5.8 degrees F. I believe it is as simple as that.
katmar
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Best regards
Morten
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Sorry, yes I should have stated that. I have assumed no heat in or out of the system at all. I have also assumed that all the power goes to heat and nothing is left over as kinetic energy (I imagine that would be relatively small).
I was surprised that I have not seen this effect before, until I realised that this particular example has an unusually large pressure drop and still has a relatively small temperature rise. I'm sure any temperature rise that I might potentially have seen before would have been negligible, or lost to the atmosphere.
katmar
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
I agree with both of you in that I believe the simple explanation given by RGasEng and reena1957 is much more credible than is any possible liquid J-T effect.
Milton Beychok
(Contact me at www.air-dispersion.com)
.
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
If the J-T coef is zero, or its effect negligible, then the fluid will follow for a constant process
specific volume/absolute Temp =constant.
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
One wonders why, in a very long crude oil pipeline crossing truely cryogenic surroundings, the oil arrives at terminus with almost no loss of temperature.
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
energy balance w(Hin-Hout)=heat loss to surrounings
Hin-Hout = UA(Delta T mean)/w
where H=specific enthalpy
w mass flow rate
Approximating Cp, specific heat at const press as a constant
Tin-Tout=UA(Delata T mean)/(wCp)
Right hand side of equation with high flow rate might be the reason for small temperature change.
Regards
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
To sailoday28, yours is the logical answer, although it seems to assume a constant heat flux UA, while we know U is a direct -albeit non-linear- function of w. The temperature drop is evidently dependent on the flow rate, lower drops appear at higher flow rates (as well as lower residence times).
RE: JOULE-THOMSON EFFECT
Perhaps instead of oversimplifying the heat transfer from the pipe,
--the heat loss to the surroundings should be=
integral of UPo(Tlocal-Tsurroundings)dx
where Po is pipe OD
Tlocal, Oil temp as a function of distance
Tsurroundings, the earth temp
x distance in direction of pipe.
U local overall ht trans coef.
A high WCp will still minimize the fluid temp change.