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Does humanity play a role in your job?
7

Does humanity play a role in your job?

Does humanity play a role in your job?

(OP)
Hello, I'd like to start with some background. I'm 24 years old, been working as a full time engineer/designer for the past year, it kind of crossed my path... I have no diploma's or anything, I got hired just on my rep. and am doing really well.

Ofcourse this is a good thing actually, my boss even wants to keep me from continuing my study and start an engineering company with him.

Now I'm having second thoughts about that, my life philosophy has always been that I wanted to do something to help humanity and I'm thinking engineering just doesn't doesn't do enough for me on that area.

I'm sure there are more people here thinking the same, so I'm really interested in how you solved that... Did you search for that job that you felt would help humanity or did you take the best job you could get as an engineer and learned to live with your consious? Another option might be trying to be the best in your job as possible and use your resources to help...

Let me know what you guys think, especially what you thought looking back on your life as an engineer...

PS. Sorry for my messy story

Stefan Hamminga
Mesken BV
2005 Certified SolidWorks Professional
Mechanical designer/AI student

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Perhaps your concept is too narrow.  

You could work on vision systems for the blind, audio systems for the deaf, etc.  

But asking how one rationalizes is not necessarily a good starting point.  Someone, such as I, could argue that building weapon systems helps my country defend itself and therefore helps the portion of humanity that lives here.

Even the guy at McDonalds can argue that by providing fast food, they provide a service for overworked people to enjoy a cheap meal and reduce the stress in their lives.

Given that McDonalds claims something 95 billion served, one has to ask who really provides the greater good?

TTFN



RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

If you actually start on that engineering degree, one of the first things they will teach you is the defintion of engineering.  Something along the lines of "The application of the physical sciences for the practical benefit of mankind."

There are plenty of engineering jobs that have obvious benefits to humanity.

Design mass transit systems, fuel efficient cars, cleaner power plants, water treatment systems, medical devices...

And others with less obvious benefits.

Design machines used in the production of pharmacuticals, design safe buildings, bridges or roads, design efficient mechanical systems for hospitals or other non-profits...

Not everyone gets to be Mother Theresa.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I find it rather interesting that you landed a "designer/engineer" job with no formal training other than your reputation.

Now is the time to decide if you really want to pursue engineering, regardless of what your boss states, because without further study and some type of college or university technical degree you will not advance outside of your current job. In other words, I doubt that you would land a similar job opportunity without an engineering degree of some sort.

I have been an engineer for the last 24 years and enjoy every day of it. I would bet that most of the regulars on this forum probably enjoy engineering with a passion. Regarding humanity, I have volunteered for Habitat for Humanity. This is something that one can do part time and receive tremendous benefit by helping others build homes or churches. Plus, on those occasional frustrating days, helping to pound nails relieves tension.

Anyway, your post sounds like you really need to pursue other career interests, especially if you are trying to justify the humanity angle. Engineering has to be in your blood to really enjoy it.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I know one guy, a friend of mine, change the job from engineer to social worker after 20 years of working. He thinks he can help people directly.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Sure, that's another approach.  While the gratification is instant, it's a onesy-twosy approach.

As an engineer, you have the potential to affect thousands of people with your work.

TTFN



RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

To serve humanity, as long as you are a human and behave like one, it's more than enough.  Of course, Engineering helps in many ways as posted above.  One can keep on adding to that.  

I design and execute Air-conditioning systems - does it help humanity ?  Yes, in a small way.  It helps people to work better, higher productivity, better indoor air quality, etc., etc.  But, that's my job and I get paid for it !!!  

There are so many more ways of helping manking outside the purview of one's job.  Donate blood, donate your eyes when you die, donate to the less-privileged, ..............

HVAC68

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Not sure where you are Stefan but here in the UK there is an organisation called Voluntary Services Overseas:

http://www.vso.org.uk/volunteering/stepone/

they regularly use engineers and their skills for humanitarian projects.I'm ashamed to say that I'm so stuck in my ways and also have become so specialised that I'm not sure that I have the right skills for them, but at one point did consider doing something with my ex-wife.

Intertesting question!

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I don't see why anyone should be ashamed of not being part of a voluntary service, while we all are contributing to society in some way. All sorts of people are required to make the world and being part of a energy generation gang, who does not see their users everyday, should not make me a selfish and shameless person.

Life is a two-way concept. We serve the world and expect something in return. Without figuring out both sides of balances, decision is difficult. When you have figured it out, engineering provides many options.

Ciao.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I would agree with metengr in that now is the time for you to decide on commitment to the engineering profession and formal training (else your career opportunities will be very limitied).  Humanity is served by virtually every aspect of the engineering profession.  It is the prime reason for our existence.  What you need to decide is what fits your definition of providing enough personal satisfaction.  andyenergy posted a link for a UK organization offering direct involvement for humanitarian projects.  Here is another.  Visit these sites and see if they provide opportunities that match your personal goals.  Also see if you have the skill requirements to partake in such activities.

http://www.ewb-usa.org/

Regards,

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Helping humanity is never about what you do...engineer, nurse, pastor, school teacher, social worker etc. ad nauseum...it is about who you are.  If you are looking for a job title to define who you are you'll be disappointed every time.

I started at about 22 and spent 10 years in a "helping humanity" profession as a pastor and that was my passion for a long time.  I always told myself that once my passion for my profession left, I'd change professions...and I did.  I had never used my engineering degree until I left that profession.  I'm very thankful that I had my engineering degree to fall back on to support my family (don't read anything into that that ain't there).  So I guess I'm in my second career.  Would I go back to my 1st career? Never.  Do I regret doing it? Never.  Am I passionate about engineering...pick a day of the week and ask me then, but I spend a lot fewer days looking back and wondering what might have been...as I followed my heart instead of my head and I'm glad I did it.

It may sound hokey, but you only get one life to live, there isn't another one in the bank somewhere for safe keeping.  Follow your passion, but get an education (degree) and have a back-up plan! ;)

Brian

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

2
Sounds like your boss has you hoodwinked.  Without a diploma, you are virtually his captive designer.  It would be quite difficult for you to forge a portable and upwardly mobile career from your position.  Go to school while you are young enough to expend the energy on it.

As far as helping humanity, if you change one life for the better (even your own), you have helped humanity.  Look inward, shine outward.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

A bad doctor can only kill one person at a time but a bad engineer can kill thousands in the blink of an eye. In the same way, a doctor can help one patient at a time but an engineer can improve the lives of thousands of people. The improvements he makes might not always be noticed by the people he helps, and some people in this world might need more help than others, but engineering as a profession has a huge impact on humanity.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I am one of the few people involved with an orginization,  www.meetingGODinmissions.com that is an engineer. As such I get the electrical side of everything. We're building a university in Haiti www.ucf-haiti.org . Engineering practice has given me the talent, time, and money to help. Few of us can change the world. All of us can do something.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I ask you this.  Over the course of recorded history, what profession has improved the quality of life and contributed most to the overall well being of people?  Engineering makes a strong case.

*note engineers were designing bridges that still stand today when medicine was sucking the evil out with leeches :)

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Well the word engineer originates from “ingeniator” the builder of war machines, so it could also be said that engineers have done more than just about anyone else to harm humanity. Slightly ironically about the only people that would come above them are religious people, how many people have been killed in the name of religion?

I must say I do find some of what is written above amusing, just about any job could be seen as being humanitarian, if you search hard enough.

My personal opinion is what I do out of work has far more impact that what I do in work.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I think there are several here who would debate your word orgin, but I digress.  People have been killing each other long before the advent of a bomb.  Do you fault medicine as a field for the development of biological and chemical weapons?  Don't the pros far outweight the cons?  A world without engineers would be a world without clean running water, sanitary sewers, refrigeration, transportation, communication, etc.  That is pretty hard to imagine.  One the other hand, a world without social workers would be...well a world without social workers.  

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Engineering is intelligence applied to a purpose.  Intelligence is neutral.  The purpose can be judged.

Some friends of mine faced a similar dilemma and decided to use their abilities (very capable people with a wide background of life experience) to bridge the gap between needs and fulfillment:
http://www.needmagazine.com/

This will involve designers and engineers and many other people lending their talents and efforts to meet needs found throughout the world.  (Think of how you may have been able to help with the tsunami crisis months ago as a volunteer.)

You can also help with the more mundane.  I would have loved more interaction with real professionals while I was at ASU.  So I help with that now in a mentorship program now in place at ASU for that purpose.  Opportunity abounds.

Listen to TheTick and make sure you're not being unnecessarily hobbled in taking that job.  Consider your purpose in life and whether "what you do" is in pursuit of that purpose.  If not, change what you do.


Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reality is no respecter of good intentions.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Quote (ajack1):

...so it could also be said that engineers have done more than just about anyone else to harm humanity.

Elimination of open sewers has probably saved more lives than those claimed by all wars.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I'm not a social worker, but I would take umbrage to social workers being classified as non-essential.  

In today's culture, the social worker is the only person with even a remote responsibility in helping the poor, the elderly and the children.  

In fact, we demand that they do so every time we complain about why a child was beaten to death or abused.

TTFN



RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

ajack1,
   The first war machines were nothing but siege engines, ie catapults, rams etc, they were developed in ancient greece, rome etc and barely contributed to the actual death toll in a battle, their main purpose was to breach walls and intimidate the opposition. War machines did nothing more than this until World War 1 with the advent of the tank, even then a pretty useless piece of equipment performing nothing more than breaching enemy lines and intimidating the enemy, a hybrid of catapult and ram. Also remember that the first engineers were building aqueducts, roads, forts etc as well, ie. infrastructure and defense improvements. If not for them we would still be dumping pots of our own excrement out of windows.

bioengr,
In my opinion social workers are probably the most essential people there are. While they only help a single person at a time the people they help go on to live far more productive lives. Without a social worker my wife would have committed suicide when she was a teenager. Her family has had many problems and I can see a clear difference between the generation above her, which had no assistance from social workers and her generation, which did.
 

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

You take offense where none was intended.  I don't doubt that social workers make a difference for those they help.  My point is engineers help a much broader segment of society generations and generations over.  Social workers may be the most selfless profession around.  However, their existance is a modern invention and those they reach is a small specific group (mostly in developed nations?).  The good work they do is a bit intangible.  So a world without social workers would be a world without social workers (all everything associated with them).  However, I disagree ziggi that "...social workers are probably the most essential people there are."  I would personally take police, firemen, soldiers, doctors, teachers, and any number of professions that make a much bigger broader impact on every facet of EVERYONE's life.  Call me cold or uncaring, but given the choice of the good done from one engineering inovation, say the refrigeration cycle and the good every social worker has ever done, I'll take my meat cold and unspoiled.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

(OP)
Wow! much more responde than I could imagine! Thank you all for your ideas and opinions!

I do believe what had been pointed out here, I think engineering by itself is neutral, just the purpose can be good or bad to certain degrees. This was where I was after.

I am going to persue a good engineering career, while trying to keep an eye on the purpose of my work.
For now however I decided I will finish my current university study (artificial intelligence) before I continue my career. I'm really anxious to see what a relatively new area of research like AI can bring our world the next decade or so!

About doing volunteering work, my current opinion about that is to get educated the best I can, so I can be the most efficient person to help later on in my life. I mean, I see low life criminals and stuff like that every day, I feel by doing what I do now I can't offset more than they can do wrong (by labour alone), but when I can reach higher places in society I can open more doors and steer more people into doing good...


On the subject of my boss having me 'career' captive, that might be true, but the joke of the story is that I came to his company to sell him an IT concept (and accompanying hard/software)... He asked me if I could also draw some of his sketches up in CAD and I ended up as a project leader and designer on about 50 smaller and larger projects over the last year.
We both hadn't imagined it would go this well! So for both It worked really well, so well in fact, I allready got 2 job offers from companies I worked with...

Strange how these things can go...

Stefan Hamminga
Mesken BV
2005 Certified SolidWorks Professional
Mechanical designer/AI student

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

As far as your boss goes...

When I was struggling (financially) through my last year of college, my boss said he would fire me if I quit school.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Stefan,

I thought this might be interesting in light of getting the education:

Quote:

Not in college for a diploma.  Not in college for grades.  Not in college for an education.  In college to learn to think.  In college to understand what you believe and why you believe it.  If you achieve that, you will not need the college for an education.  You will be able to educate yourself for the rest of your life!  Role of Common Sense in Education.
    --Written in back cover of Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, friend's copy


Jeff Mowry
www.industrialdesignhaus.com
Reality is no respecter of good intentions.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Jeff,

That's a great book.....should be required reading for all undergrad engineers

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Stefan,

If you're studying AI, don't see any of the "Terminator" movies; any of the three may prompt you to drop out!  Don't see Spielburg's AI, either, for different reasons.  It's just a terrible movie.

In all seriousness, though, it sounds like you're on the right track.  If you take control of your education (get as much as you can) and your career, you can steer things in almost any direction you choose.  Engineers touch nearly every aspect of humanity in some direct or indirect way.

Also, keep in mind that getting multiple job offers from various companies may be a guarantee of job security, but it is not a guarantee of career mobility.  If you want mobility, a degree is probably the closest thing to a guarantee that's out there.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

bioengr, I took no offense to your remarks. And I agree that engineers have done alot of good. However we are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to engineers and social workers.
Engineers deal primarily with the public good when related to solving physical problems, ie. engineers allow us to live in clean homes due to public sanitation etc etc.
Social workers on the other hand solve psychological and emotional problems, and while it is on a one to one basis, when a person is psychologically and/or emotionally disturbed that tends to affect their offspring and immediate family, which in turn affects their children's children and family etc etc.

I personally think that without social workers and those who care (whether it be friends, priests, shrinks etc) and try to stem these problems the world would be a pretty sick place, I mean you can have the best technology that money can buy, but if your populous is a bunch of loons then its all worthless.
Two examples of this are ancient Rome, prior to its demise, at the height of its technology. People were as mad as hatters (the lead poisioning could have helped). Another example from the present are the slums of developed countries, they have all the tech they could want but people still grow up seeing loved ones get murdered among other things, that image would scar a child up pretty badly and without some other way to heal these mental scars, the child would probably do what it knows best, ie violence, b/c thats what it sees.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

ziggi-

I agree with most everything you stated.  However, my broader outlook is a bit more "glass half empty".  Again no offense, but the world is already a pretty sick place.  It always has been, and I believe it always will be until we finally kill ourselves off completely.  People have always commited murder, had poor, and not been happy.  True, it is selfless and inspiring work to try and help those aflicked, but to me it is not a problem with a solution (thats not to say we should ignore it).  It is what it is.  Social workers havn't actually solved anything, where as we engineers have that sanitation problem in the bag.  So who has contributed more to humanity?  Its obviously open to debate, but if you made a check list of problems that now have solutions with the number of people they have helped; engineering's would be a mile long.  I don't know that social work has any.  

As for your example of slums in developed nations, again the same 'social' problems exist in third world nations.  As far as I'm concerned they will always exist.  Its biblical.  The difference is that in a developed nations slum, you at least don't have to worry about dysentery on top of everything else.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Whilst that may be true it is hard to think how social workers have such an effect as Nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, inner city smog, the destruction of rain forests, air crashes, malfunctioning ships and rail incidents, malfunctioning nuclear power stations to name but a few things.

Whilst it could be argued we have done more to improve lives we have almost certainly done more than just about anyone else to mess them up and the planet we live on.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

With the exception of accidents (human error), all listed represent legitmate engineering technology with benifical uses mismanaged & applied improperly.  

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

2
Stefan - I have read every one of the above responses to your question; you have received some outstanding advice. One avenue that has not been addressed are the "numbers". Since so much of engineering is based on numbers, I will present one example:

A local Church with an outstanding reputation for doing "good works" was beginning construction of a multi-million dollar "Family Center". I was asked by Church officials to partcipate, part time, in the Construction Management. To make a long story short, after an 18 month construction cycle, the Building was dedicated this summer:

My Total Fee: About $10,000
Documented Savings & Avoided Costs based on my participation: $250,000

Results:
Was the project finacially rewarding to me? Yes.
Was the project personally rewarding to me? Yes.
Did the Church/Community benefit? Yes.
Was the Contractor satisfied? Yes
Was the Architect/Engineer satified? Yes

The point of this example is that not everything is a mutually exclusive choice (Good Works or High Pay). Win-Win situations happen all the time, even in engingeering fields.

www.SlideRuleEra.net

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Which sanitation problem do we have in the bag?  Or landfill?  No one has yet even engineered a leak-proof sanitary napkin.

We're practically drowning in trash.  There are cities that are dumping their trash into the deep ocean because there's no room for it all.

We make and buy stuff that's 99% packaging, volumetrically, that has to be disposed of.

TTFN



RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

IRstuff-

Given the nature of human being's and our inexplicable ability unlock some of the greatest mysteries of the cosmos while simultaneously systematically destroying ourselves and the living things around us, can it be assumed that any persuit of knowledge or application there of is only contributing to and accelerating the degredation of our planet?  Shouldn't we just assume that any new technology will more than likely be abused and in the end hurt more than it helps?  If so, I propose we raze all research facilities right now.  Then we burn all the science and engineering textbooks we can find.  We stop this sillyness that is advancement.  No good can come from it.  When all the evidence of engineering, science, and math has been erased we retreat into the mountains and refuse to speak.  This should save the planet.

Of course it might make more sense to try and properly apply that which we know in responsible and sustainable mannor.  Knowledge is not evil.  Its existance is not evil.  Knowlege is neutral, good nor bad.  The application by PEOPLE is where things foul.

And again with the trash.  The problem is not that we don't know how to fix the problem.  We choose not to because it is more convenient (for now).

I can not comment about the leak proofness of sanitary napkins.  I can, however, say they do exist and fulfill their intended function to an adequate degree.

"But here's an extremely salient point: we have been chosen, by fate or Providence or whatever you wish to call it.  As far as we can tell, we are the best there is.  We may be all there is.  It's an unnerving thought that we may be the living universe's supreme achievement and its worst nightmare simultaneously."
    - Bill Bryson, "A Short History of Nearly Everything"

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

There is a law of unintended consequences.

It's our very hubris that fails to allow us to see that we are not as wise or smart as some of us think we are.

TTFN



RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I get to contribute to humanity by making sure that the contractors who build what I design don't take any shortcuts and thereby endanger people all in the pursuit of their personal greed.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

@bioengr
"...while simultaneously systematically destroying ourselves and the living things around us...."

I'm afraid I have to disagree! Who grows trees, flowers, who maintains rivers and seashores, who protects animals against each other, who installs irrigation systems in dry areas and dams/dikes around areas threatened to be overflown?

Sure our exhaust gases do harm, just like beavers, termites, caterpillars and other animals do "harm" to mother nature - at least one may call it harm if harm can be defined. We chop trees - sure, what other material are we supposed to use, plastics? We plant trees just as well.

I wonder what this "self destruction" thought is based on exactly. If it were our inherent tendancy to destroy ourselves, we would have done so long ago.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

(OP)
We are all 'nature', it's just the players changing, not the game...
Humanity would be keeping certain players in the game, wouldn't it? ;)

Really though, I had not expected that so many people considered this subject (the topic subject that is). My view on certain aspects of engineering has certainly been influenced by your views!
The situation SlideRuleEra described is exactly where I'm after. I hope the other readers of this thread found it as interesting as me!

Stefan Hamminga
Mesken BV
2005 Certified SolidWorks Professional
Mechanical designer/AI student

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

epoisses-

Perhaps you missed how much of my tongue was in my cheek.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

I think that you'll need to revisit the number of trees cut vs. the number of trees planted.  

The inclusive "WE" have continued to remove far more trees worldwide than the small handfull that Georgia Pacific likes to tout about planting.

TTFN



RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Every minute of every day one acre of rainforest is destroyed, does anyone seriously believe we are replacing at the same rate?

Still it is a great testament to mankind that we can produce machinery capable of doing this; just imagine how long it would take natives of the rainforest to achieve this.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

There are some theories that the ancient Mayans did just this.  One show I saw on PBS theorized that the civilization collapsed in part due to deforestation.  Green wood was cut down en masse to fire kilns that produced the white plaster to cover their buildings.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Yup, read Collapse by Jared Diamond. He analyses the collapse of 7 (I think) earlier cultures. In almost every case (not Greenland) the society collapsed more or less as they felled their last trees.

Historically human societies have been quite capable of deforesting large areas. We can now do it quicker.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Does humanity play a role in your job?

Off topic:

Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond is another good read on the fates of human societies in general.

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