stating salary requirements
stating salary requirements
(OP)
Today’s classified ads feature a listing for an engineer (unspecified with 3 years experience in manufacturing). The bottom of the ad reads “Resumes without salary requirements will not be considered.”
What do you make of that?
What do you make of that?





RE: stating salary requirements
RE: stating salary requirements
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: stating salary requirements
Been there...Interviewed with IBM and they offered me a job, but didn't show what the salary offer was, so I called them up.
Even then, they still wouldn't tell me, but asked what my other offers were. "oh...," they said, "well, we weren't going to offer you anywhere near THAT much."
TTFN
RE: stating salary requirements
Regards,
-Mike
RE: stating salary requirements
RE: stating salary requirements
John
RE: stating salary requirements
Companies usually have a set budget and a range of salaries for each open positions. More often than not, revealing the current salary can limit the salary negotiation process for the candidate. In many cases, companies will offer salary beyond a few raise cycles from your current rate, and it WORKS!
RE: stating salary requirements
(The IRS makes it very disadvantageous to have an actual contract.)
Better times came, but not better enough, I guess. The job evaporated, and so did the promise and the deferred money.
If I tell 'em what I was making, they'll try to match that pitiful sum. If I tell 'em the boss reneged on a promise, they'll think I've got a bad attitude.
I detest this whole salary negotiation game.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: stating salary requirements
TTFN
RE: stating salary requirements
The original post stated "salary requirements", not "salary history".
I would not provide a salary history during negotiations, and can't ever remember being asked.
I have always been asked what my salary requirements are, and I can't imagine not answering any direct, legal question in a job interview.
Its just like asking a current employer for a raise...the first question is always, and has to be, "how much do you want?" I can't imagine refusing to answer, but I can well imagine where the negotiations would end up if I didn't have an answer.
Remember: The Chinese ideogram for “crisis” is comprised of the characters for “danger” and “opportunity.”
-Steve
RE: stating salary requirements
-Mike
RE: stating salary requirements
RE: stating salary requirements
RE: stating salary requirements
RE: stating salary requirements
"That's relevant only if you're proposing to pay me to do that other job, the one that I used to do.
What we're discussing here and now is what you'll pay me to do the job that _you_ need done.
Since you already budgeted the money for it, just put the highest amount you anticipated in an offer letter, and I'll get back to you."
;---
If you do give them a number, use the real one. If you were accepting a low salary because your kids were in school, or the climate was nice, etc., so state.
;---
Okay, I've already tried every possible tactic except flat out lying. My experience says that an outfit you'd want to work for won't screw you over ... and conversely.
My experience also says that the outfits you'd want to work for are rarely hiring.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: stating salary requirements
If you don't like their offer and you want to negotiate, then you can bring up what your current salary is if it helps your cause.
RE: stating salary requirements
I'm making $XX,XXX. Now, I read the salary surveys in the engineering trade journals, so I know that I'm in the high/average/low/whatever range."
The next question usually is "what are you looking for?"
Answer: "I'm looking for at least a $10,000 increase."
Note: this is being honest. If they're going to hire you away from a good job -one that you like- they're going to have to pay more. Plus, you've just let the interviewer know what you think you're worth.
Also, if you are desparately looking for a job, that's the time to use the old "I'll discuss salary when the time is right" line. But when you're in a position and the other company "wants you" you're in the driver's seat. Go ahead, tell 'em what you make and tell 'em what you want!
RE: stating salary requirements
What if before they interviewed you they set a budget for the position that was $15k to $25k higher than $XX,XXX? You've just screwed yourself out of some money they were prepared to pay. And maybe you've just let the interviewer know that you don't think you're worth much.
RE: stating salary requirements
I've been on both sides of the desk and use it to my advantage as much as possible. Important thing is, never short-change a good candidate because when they find out, they are out the door.
RE: stating salary requirements
Am I way off base with this thought process?
RE: stating salary requirements
Getting back to the original post, an advertised position that asks for your current salary is letting you know that the salary offer will be low regardless of experience or qualifications. There won't be much negotiating of salaries involved.
RE: stating salary requirements
http://www.gallet.com/salary.htm
RE: stating salary requirements
What if your commute suddenly increased by 30 minutes or your spouse's job changed and now you have to do something different? What if you got reassigned to a toad?
TTFN
RE: stating salary requirements
Good point. But...
If you're doing an in-person interview, you're already somewhat in the door. AND, if the position is similar to your current job, then you know what they'll pay. If the position is an obvious promotion, do the research and ask for what the salary surveys say is the right money for that job. If you really are what the company wants, they'll pay.
For example, if you're a senior civil at firm A, how much more is firm B going to pay for the same job? Sure, there may be different perqs, different location, different type projects, etc., but it's still the "same" thing you're doing now. Why go through the headache of changing jobs for the same money?
Another example. You're a senior civil with 15 years' experience in design. Time to move into design management (and, yep, "business development"). That's a lot more responsibility. The salary survey says you should be making $110k. Right now you're making $85k. The interviewer asks what you want. Tell 'em "at least $25k more." If they say they are only prepared to give you $20k more, you've won the negotiation because they've let you see their hand. If they say that's too much, consider yourself in negotiations and go with it.
Considering that companies pay recruiters a lot of money just to find people, they're certainly going to pay a premium for your services - if you are what they think they want.
RE: stating salary requirements
Of course you need to do the research and know what you are worth and what you want and you can probably expect that if they do their research their numbers will fall in line with yours, but I still say make them give the first number - you may end up pleasantly suprised.
You say you've won the negotiation when you've seen their hand, but guess what? It was after you'd shown them yours. Maybe their standard is to drop 5k off your request and see if you bite.
Also, what if you say "I want 25k more" and the interviewer says "ok, no problem" without batting an eye. Won't you wonder if you could've got $30k more?
Anyway, we could give a bunch of scenarios. As long as you're happy with the salary in the end, that's what matters.
RE: stating salary requirements
My friend laughed and said, "You're a crappy negotiator and could have gotten a much better price."
So, he accosts another vendor and enters into negotiations. 20 minutes later, he returned with a $10 blanket.
If you're willing to work for what they offer, then all is good. Anything else is buyer's remorse and whining.
TTFN
RE: stating salary requirements
HVAC68
RE: stating salary requirements
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
RE: stating salary requirements
As for salary history, I have rarely been asked for it, but when I have, I provided it. The interesting part of it was that I took a pay cut (relatively large) at one point because I liked the other factors affecting job choice. This has created some good conversation during interviews.
Dave
RE: stating salary requirements
RE: stating salary requirements
I think the whole thing is crap. Decide you want to hire the person, make them an offer, and if it's too low either there will be a negotiation or they'll decline. Forcing the applicant to play the game of guessing what you had in mind is just plain cruel and unnecessary.
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: stating salary requirements
I doubled my fees and quickly doubled my billable hours for a 400% increase in income.
A friend of mine tried running a computer repair business from his home. His fees were 30% of the downtown firms (one of which hired him after he gave up his own business). I tried to get him to charge the going rate in town but he never had enough confidence in himself to ask that much and went out of business. The downtown firm where he ended up had no problem hiring him out at the going rate, sometimes to clients who passed over him at the 30% rate.
Initially ask in the high end of the going rate, negotiate downwards only if offered something in return, OK $2,000 less but I get a company car.
This works best if you have a job you like and could stay in for a while.
In any negotiation always know your and the oppositions best alternative to a negotiated solution. Yours is continuing as you are in your present position (or lack of a position if unemployed) theirs is the other candidate. Think through the implications for both sides.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com
RE: stating salary requirements
It does not strike me as a problem. Whenever I've changed jobs there has been a modest increase in salary which has suited me. Most companies advertising a position have an idea of the salary they will pay. If you are seeking a similar job it stands to reason that the salary will also be similar. If you are looking to step up then you would expect a significant increase in salary but would also be best positioned by identifying that you know it is a step up.
When I've been in the position of interviewing candidates, I always look for genuine (or at least plausible) reasons why they want the job. Having the matter of salary already covered, or at least sidelined, should allow the employer to concentrate on your qualities as a person and engineer!
RE: stating salary requirements
It is.... let's say... intelligent for a company to ask for salary REQUIREMENTS. They force you to make the first move, which is disadvantageous. (That's also why antique and high-end jewelry and clothes are never price tagged in the shopping window).
Black on white or in a mandatory on-line form you just don't have much choice. You then have two options: either find an alternative way to apply for the job, or make sure you are not bound by your requirement initially stated by making sure it is a large range OR stating that it is conditional, depending on exact job content or whatever else you think it depends on.
Just think aloud about what would really determine if you'd be happy with a salary proposal of XXk$, and just mention those very same reasons to the interviewer. No need to make it more complicated then that.
The number that you finally land on depends on your negotiation skills. This is a mixture of talent and experience. The fundamental thing to know is that you need a good argument for wanting a higher number. When I got this job I had given them my salary history but during the negotiations I mentioned I was supposed to get an X% raise the next year in my previous job (which was true). We landed on 1/2X% higher. Always keep such things in your pocket to use them at the right moment.