×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

gaining and loosing engineering specialties
6

gaining and loosing engineering specialties

gaining and loosing engineering specialties

(OP)
What engineering disciplines are on the way up from
the perspective of demand and what are on the way down??

My take on it

Advancing
Chemical,Eniviromental,Aeronoutical,Civil,Petroleum,Structural

Declining
Electrical,Mechanical,Mining,Computer

Agree / Disagree

Who did I leave out??

2d4

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties


Manufacturing and Industrial are on their way down in the US as well.

Nuclear?  I've seen programs eliminated at some schools while they are created at others.

Geof

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Are we talking the USA or the whole world?

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I have seen Mechanical Engineering flat line before and after graduation (10 years ago).  Not really a hot field, but can not do with out.

Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

software is down, engineering physics is essentially non-existent.

I just graduated a couple years ago, and i know people who still can't find jobs in those fields.  When i started school eng phys was the thing to take.

I took materials, there were significantly more job postings when i graduated than people in my class, and everyone had a job before the exams of last term.  I'm not if that counts as going up.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

(OP)

since it is a global economy lets make it global.

2d4

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I think aeronautical is flat lining at best.

I think you are wrong about mining/geological



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Automation and technology is having a impact in all engineering fields. PLC's reduced electrical engineering in plants and moved it into programming. 3-D imaging has reduced surveying and other engineering related tasks. CAM systems has reduced CNC programming to a cerical job in some factories. Simulation, rapid prototyping, and FEA has reduced staffing in R/D departments. CAD systems reduce the number of engineers making drawings. Strength calculations are done automatically.
The human race is not doing new things we are doing the same things better. The new taller buildings. The larger ships. The long suspension bridges. Faster computers. Water treatment plants. Generating facilities. Automotive plants. All of these engineered products require mammoth amounts of engineering but is it based on "new" things. The fastest aircraft ever flown were designed in the 1960's.  We are all about reusing our current technology to meet cost targets, or weight targets, or customer satisfaction.
The price of fuel will cause some people to do something new I hope. Going to Mars will cause advances and increase the need for engineers. Fusion if it was attacked similarly as the Manhattan Project attacked fission would probably be solved.

Demand for engineering is down due to the designing of automated engineering processes and the lack of leadership to do new things.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

How about the bio-engineering?

I think now, all nio- or medical-related industry are "hot"

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

In my area ChemE has flatlined and MechE has picked up, (so I altered my course of study).  Also, Environmental is pure overhead for companies and is truly only enforced under certain political systems, especially in a bad economy.  In the US, Environmental Engineering demands have been put on the back burner (for the war, oil, and corporate leniency).  However, it's a powder keg.  There's a lot of unexplored and unresolved environmental issues out there.  Under the right administration, the field will boom.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

nano-technology
fusion power
novel fission reactors (pebble reactors)
ET (seriously, it's going to go from none to some)
oil extraction (to bring the more difficult reserves on-line)
deep-sea (exploration, exploitation)
airships are having a re-birth

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Environmental is booming in Europe - lots of interesting research and innovation taking place there.

Civil is flat lining, sure there are lots of jobs, but there's very little new stuff coming on stream, it's the same old same old with roads and pipe laying.

Structural will probably get more interesting on the back of environmental - new materials and new ideas about the best ways of doing things.

Geotechnical is a black art at the best of times. I think there will be more tunnelling in the future because of the pressure on space which will increase demand and research but aside from that it's hard to judge.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I'd have to disagree with Mechanical declining, at least in the EPC field.  I'm working in Houston and recruiters are struggling to feel positions down here.  On average, I'm getting about a call every couple of weeks looking for rotating equipment or heat transfer engineers.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

That's what I am seeing as well chestilow. Rotating machinery in particular, but mechanical engineers with refinery or chem plant experience in general are in high demand. As are EE's with control system experience.

As a rotating machinery guy, I took advantage and start a new job in September.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

sms,

What kind of Rotating machinery is hot or popular right now?

chestilow,

What is EPC? Environmental protection centre???

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Aerospace Stress analysis is hot as hell at the moment. Even post 9/11, it was quiet for 3 years, yes, but I had no problem at all staying employed on good rates in both civil and military.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Electrical power in the UK is struggling to recruit from a dwindling pool of engineers. The job market in power has never been as buoyant as it is right now, and the good times have been with us for a few years. It is a welcome marked change to the black hole of depression which was the power industry in the late 80's and early 90's when the industry was privatised.

Most universities are closing down their power labs because they're expensive to maintain, occupy a lot of space, and don't have the 'wow' factor needed to attract students which leads to small classes. This could be a good thing in the long term because the few universities who do have the facilities will have the opportunity to become first-class learning centres able to run full classes and attract investment from industry.

----------------------------------

One day my ship will come in.
But with my luck, I'll be at the airport!

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

SmithsJohn:

Steam Turbines, Gas Turbines, compressors, pumps, motors, if you have experience with this kind of equipment and especially if you have experience in power plants, refineries, chemical plants, and gas/oil production the market is pretty good right now.

EPC: Engineering/Procurment/Construction in other words big engineering firms like Bechtel that design and build plants and big projects.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

There is no skills shortage, its paralysis by analysis caused by the engineering companies themselves (Theory of constraints).  

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

There's no skills shortage, there's simply an inability of companies to consider investing properly in training their employees.  Years of downsizing, and the consequent lack of loyalty from employees, will do that to a company.

Whether there's a shortage or an oversupply depends on where you look, and at what experience level.  If you're a mid-career engineer, things aren't so bad.  If you're early or very late in your career, you could be in trouble.  If you're a company looking for people with 10-20 years experience in a particular specialty, willing to take a 3 month contract at an average full-timer's salary, perhaps there's a shortage of takers- particularly if it's in an area of practice which was in massive retreat and wasn't hiring new grads 10 or 20 years ago.  (Stands to reason, doesn't it?  But some companies in this situation scream "shortage" and politicians listen!)  If you're a recent grad or recent immigrant engineer currently looking for work in Canada as an engineer, most particularly Ontario and most particularly Toronto, things are pretty bleak.

As to the original post:  civil, mechanical, chemical and electrical are all mature fields now.  Computer was flamed out here five years ago and still hasn't recovered.  The others (geo, aerospace, environmental etc.) are really just sub-specialties of these, suffering from the vaguaries of supply and demand common to narrowly focused disciplines.  They boom, but they also bust.

Is bio-engineering hot these days?  The same rumours of this field being "hot" were circulating 20 years ago and it's no more true now than it was then in my view.  "The next big thing" has been used by the business community as an excuse to increase engineering supply and reduce wage and working condition pressures on engineering employers for the past 20 years.  "The next big thing" changes yearly to keep the politicians in a perpetual state of worry.  Now they're adding the "baby boom" demographic shift as an excuse to keep the oversupply going, even though these folks won't retire en masse for at least another 10-20 years.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

With all due respect to moltenmetal, I went to the career page for the company I work for (www.Lyondell.com) and gathered the following wage data (full time positions):

Engr 1 or 2 (0-5 years experience) 65000-73000/yr plus bonus

Engr 2/Sr (5-8 years experience) 73000-83000/yr plus bonus

Sr-Principal (8-12 yrs experience) 83-92000/yr plus bonus

Not too bad I think, at a variety of levels of experience.

As I have said before,I have a problem with general statements like ones moltenmetal makes. Engineering is too diverse a field. Is there wage pressure in some areas of engineering, sure. Is the state of engineering different in Canada vs the US vs Europe, sure! Is there an oversupply in some fields, maybe, in all fields, no way! Blanket doom and gloomness can't be supported IMHO.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

so the value of 12 years experience is <$30k ...

i don't really expect an answer, as when i was a "walking boss" i had to field this question (as our rates were were much the same), and all i came up with was "yeap ... and if you don't like it, you're an adult ..."

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

As a recent grad of an ontario school(near toronto) I would have to argue with what moltenmetal says when he states:

" If you're a recent grad or recent immigrant engineer currently looking for work in Canada as an engineer, most particularly Ontario and most particularly Toronto, things are pretty bleak. "

When I graduated the people who couldn't find jobs in matls, civ, mech and chem were literally the ones that didn't even look, the ones that are travelling europe or some other part of the world.  The companies offering positions were generally larger companies that offered great opportunities.

I still get emails from my school about job postings for people looking, eventhough I have a job and am no longer looking.  Some people were getting four or five offers.  I know of nobody at this stage who has yet to find a job, sure some are better than others but imho almost everyone has found a decent place.

Perhaps my particular school's career services were just superior to others in the area but we basically had our pick of job opportunities.


--how is it not friday yet?  honestly

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

sms,

For structural engineering in the west coast United States, your salary ranges seem very high for 0 to 5 years but very low for senior to principal level.

Starting salary is at around $40,000.00 (plus a mild bonus)and principals typically make $120,000.00 and up with shared profit with other partners.  This is usual for engineers based in Los Angeles and Orange counties.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

moltenmetal:

Bio-engineering is, again, a broad catagory broken into bio-medical, bio-processing, and bio-environmental engineering.  I'm told that bio-engineering is what chemical engineering was 30 years ago and has no where to go but up.  However, those who graduated in my class (04) with bio-medical had very limited options (most went for masters), bio-processing faired the best (people gotta eat!), and most with bio-environmental eventually found a job.  I would say luke warm at best*.

I agree macmet, I think the hands on my clock have actually reversed.
 
*from my experience; sms - I know you can't extrapolate from one data point, but this is the only data point I have, and I belive it is assumed people here speak from their own experience seeing how we engineer and don't conduct labor studies for a living.  

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Whyun, be careful of titles, the capabilities and experience for a principal in a chemical plant is probably significatly less than the principals you are talking about. There is a another couple levels above principal in our company that compare pretty well with what you are talking about. That is the level I am at, but I was just hired away by another company, which goes to show that there is at least some recruiting at even that level....(That is only one data point however. Not much to extrapolate on...)

Thank you bioengr for taking at least some of what I have said to heart.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

macmet:  Glad to hear that you and your friends at Mac are doing well.  Nice to hear a positive anecdote once in a while.  Unfortunately, for every recent grad positive anecdote I hear at least five to ten negative ones.  What I'm hearing about for recent grads is mostly a situation of underemployment rather than unemployment though:  grads taking jobs outside of engineering in order to pay off their student loans, not because they wanted out of the profession.

Unfortunately, the reports I'm getting indicate that placement rates from U of T, Queens and even Waterloo, where students have the benefit of 2 years of co-op work experience to help them in their job search- these aren't nearly as bright as you describe.  And the Council of Ontario Universities' survey, which looks at job status 6 months and 2 years after graduation, puts engineering grads at the same basic rate of unemployment as any other average university graduate (i.e. including job-magnet programs like journalism and fine arts).  All medical graduates of any sort, even vets, have unemployment rates indistinguishable from zero.  These stats for engineering are hardly indicative of a profession whose grads are in short supply and have an abundance of great opportunities to choose from.  

The situation for recent immigrants in Canada is worse still.  The Council for Access to the Profession of Engineering (www.capeinfo.ca) interviewed 1000 recent immigrant engineers in Ontario and found that only 20% of them were working as engineers, and only 50% of them were working at any job.

My stats are for Canada only, they're not general "doom and gloom", but they're not opinion or anecdotes either: they're supply numbers for Canada versus time, verified independently and accurate within 10%.  

We're massively oversupplied here, mostly because of changes in immigration policy which totally decoupled immigration supply of skills from their marketplace demand, whereas 10 years ago there were quotas by discipline.  Whereas we took in 1300 engineers in 1991, we were taking in over 15,000 engineers in 2001 and levels have stabilized near there since.  In comparison, we graduate only ~ 9,000 Bachelors' level engineers yearly in all of Canada.  75% of all skilled workers seeking to work in regulated professions in Canada are now engineers.  If you want to see the stats, have a look at www.geocities.com/martinsmoltenmetal/index.htm  No profession can survive a three-fold increase in yearly supply in a decade without some serious suffering.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Work in the power industry (Mechanical and Electrical) will be up in future.  It is estimated that the retirement rate will be 50% in the next 5 to 10 years.  Several utilities expect to lose 70% in that time frame.  At my company I am already seeing the rate of retirements grow.  I also am seeing senior engineers leave for better paying jobs.

Look at engineering schools.  How many have power programs.  The school I went to (20 years ago) eliminated most power courses.

Two interesting articles;
The Aftertaste of Retirement Cake, By Brian K. Schimmoler, Power Engineering, May 2005
and
Draining the Talent Pool, By Drew Robb, Power Engineering, May 2005

www.power-eng.com

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

A big problem in my eyes, as far as placement of new engineers, must lie with the specialization of engineers at the university level. This is an across the board problem with all collegiate academic pursuits, but I will limit my discussion to the topic of engineering. Why must we churn out tons and tons of these specialty (on might even call them boutique) engineers from our colleges. Why not just graduate "engineer".... you remember - men and women that are well versed in sciences... physics, chemistry, (then an optional "specialty science" of the students desire - geology, biology, atmospheric science)... business... management, logistics, accounting... liberal studies... philosophy, ETHICS!, history, politics, WRITING!!!

Instead of trying to pack into four years what should be learned upon graduation, we could teach our posterity a method of learning and a method of solving problems. We may then be graduating engineers that are more adaptable to whatever the future brings (both in terms of technological need and employment opportunity), instead of pigeonholing them before their first job (at 20 or 21 years of age) as electro-bio-chemical-mechani-structural engineers

A more diversified engineering workforce can only benefit the “greater good” of the future of our society. Maybe industry will have to not expect new hires to be able to be productive on day one. If we spent more time teaching the art of learning instead of giving the overview of technical minutiae many of us spend our lifetimes honing, then we will have a next generation workforce that can think for themselves, learn on their own, and be better prepared for the unforeseeable changes in technology that lie ahead in the… (Oh my god should I say it…) 22nd Century.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

moltenmetal, I haven't said it before, but thankyou. I really appriciate that you have brought some real numbers to the discusssion, and I appricate that you acknowledge that your data is for Canada. I also agree that it doesn't look good.

But I am still upbeat about engineering in general...

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

wes616, I'm not sure why people go for these boutique degrees, but it is  probably because they appeal to the prospective student.

At my university, in a 3 year degree, all engineers did a common first year. In the second year we were split into electrical and non-electrical (which still did a fair bit of electrical), and in the third year we had to pick 4 papers from something like 30.

Strictly speaking I don't even have a Mechanical Engineering degree, I just have an Engineering degree.

Now, what this meant in practice was that even the electrical engineers were reasonably well acquainted with thermo and steam engines, and of course mechanical engineers could design simple amps and so on. Great outcome, but I bet the thought of learning thermo put more than a few electrical engineers off our course, compared with a course where they just did electrical stuff.

So if a schoolkid is interested in say electronics, he is much more likely to go for a degree in microprocessor design engineering, than a rather scary one which should be called "a lot of fundamentals and brain crunchingly hard concepts but not much application".

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Greg,

I could never decide what I like to do, so I took as many courses as possible. It took me quite a bit longer than most of my peers to get my degree (mechanical), but I can design a a circuit. As a matter of fact I can design an RF-circuit.. and amazingly I learned this in a "physics" class. We designed RF circuits in order to study the E&M waves.

I have also taken a few courses in Surveying from a civil engineering dept at one of the colleges that I went to. Which always suprizes many of my co-workers when we talk about the classes we took in college.

It was a wonderful experience to have such variety, and I think that it has only made me a better engineer.

It is important to say, though, that I remember, and enjoyed the basic science classes much more than the engineering classes. They were much more robust, and I learned much more appliable knowledge than any of the engineering classes that I took.

Everything I have needed to know as an engineer in the Aerospace industry I have learned from more experienced engineers that I have been fortunate enough to work with. Not much from my "gasification of combustable liquids" class is used. Or the one on engine structures and vibrations. At the time I was taking them, they sounded "cool" but I would have been much better off passing them over for something more fundamental and less formulaic.

I'm not sure where the problem lies, but I would guess it is a problem with academia pandering to the "Needs" of industry, curning out tons of VERY SPECIFIC NEED ENGINEERS, that are subject to the ebb and flow of industrial need and government funding, instead of men and women who can approach any problem (from a circuit design to a hypersaturated hillside sliding down on houses), and solve it in an effective manner...

Well it's saturday, and i'm now just running on and on... so i hope this post makes sense as this is my 13 day of work in a row.

-w

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

When you've got a minute hit http://www.benjaminhorwitz.com and download his "portrait of a Chemical Engineer".

The scathing attack on academia is great fun.

Basically, as we all know, maths is a wonderful thing, but we, daily, have to do things that rely on judgement, experience and intuition, not maths. That's why engineering is not a science.

It's funny really, you see 15 year olds who've got it, and 30-40 year olds who probably never will, despite getting reasonable engineering degrees from OK universities.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I'd have to agree with everything Moltenmetal has said so far.  As a recent Engineering graduate from a university graduating the most engineers in Ontario, I have seen first hand how difficult it is for recent grads to get jobs in engineering.  

Many (great majority) of my friends are still looking for jobs, some still looking for engineering related jobs after having graduated last year.  I'm not saying there's no jobs for recent grads, but I find that 70% of my classmates (not just friends) who did get engineering-related jobs, actually got positions in the U.S.

Also, my friends and classmates have been looking since the beginning of our final year, and did not go off to Europe as Macmet believes.  I'm not completely disagreeing with you Macmet, because i'm sure you and your friends did find it easy getting jobs, but there are many more who are not as fortunate.  In my university, the same 4 to 10 people get several interviews, but the rest (more than 80%) are lucky to even get one interview.    

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Unfortunately for sms, I have no numbers available, but I graduated a couple years back and similar to macmet had nearly everyone in my class find employment.  That said, some other disciplines(comp/elec, etc) had a more difficult time and many decided to go back for more school.  I don't have any info on if that has changed since then, but I imagine everything goes in cycles.

I also went to an ontario school and I'm surprised to hear of recent grads having so many problems.  I guess i was lucky to finish at the right time.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Greg,

That was quite a good sight.

Quote:

It's funny really, you see 15 year olds who've got it, and 30-40 year olds who probably never will, despite getting reasonable engineering degrees from OK universities.

Mabye I should tell that to the guy who sits next to me.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Atreides, 49078,
What universities in Ontario did you go to?
I graduated from Ryerson 2 years ago, it took me 4 months to get a job and that was only b/c the manager happened to know one of the people I worked under while taking a summer job at Ontario Power Generation two years earlier.
I also got layed off a year and a half later and it took me two months to find another job. However some of my friends went back to univ and one even moved to Australia where he got a job, about a year after he graduated.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

i would like to keep my anonymity, but it was not ryerson or univ of toronto so we were probably applying in different markets even if it was the same year.  

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I should also say that everyone I know got their job through our school essentially, and I don't know anybody that found one on their own.  To be honest, the career centre really saved us,  I don't know what I would have done if I did not have access to it.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I don't think that any of my classmates used our career centre, which may have been a mistake. However I found my first job the same that I found my second, by driving around and handing out resumes to companies.

As for anonymity, why?

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I am not really sure, I just usually try to stay anonymous on internet forums.

But I guess that is being unnecessarily paranoid, I am from McMaster as well.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Almost all things in a marketplace go in cycles.

Take computer engineering for example. 5 or 10 years ago it was a hot field to get into and now the market is saturated with mature technologies and there is not as much demand for new technologies.  Sooner or later there will be some new discovery that pushes the computer engineering envelop and the market will take off once again.

Look at my own discipline, civil. In the 50’s when massive prosperity and the military buildup associated with the cold war drove the demand for civil engineers. Anyone with a degree had good jobs no questions asked. Once the Interstate was more or less completed and the demand for civil engineers dropped off the market for that discipline was greatly reduced.

Now in Manitoba Canada where I live there is some concern in the association that we are so far below replacement rates for the profession that when my cohorts and I retire (70’s grads now 50 and up) that the current younger engineers will be pressed into the upper senior levels without the necessary experience and seasoning. The entire civil engineering undergraduate population today is smaller than my graduating class was in 1977.

If any good comes out of Katrina it will be that people will start paying attention to the crumbling state of our infrastructure in Canada and the US (and presumably elsewhere) and start repairing the infrastructure. This is good news for the civil engineering marketplace.

That happened here after the Red River of the North flooded in 1997. I was working on building emergency dikes and we had to get guys out pf retirement to have sufficient manpower to save Winnipeg. Grand Forks ND was totally flooded. Now the first contracts are being let to increase the size of the Winnipeg Floodway and other flood control works. (Several hundred million dollars worth of civil works.)

Of course sometimes technological advances will make some industries totally obsolete. I cannot remember the last time I met a buggy whip engineer.

If an industry is cyclical, I’d advise a new high school graduate considering a career in engineering to take a good look at the disciplines that are down right now. In 4 or 5 years when he or she graduates there just may be a major demand with a corresponding lack of new graduates.

Of course they would have to first be happy with the field because if you hate your work it will be hell to get up every morning and go to the office.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

"I'm not sure where the problem lies, but I would guess it is a problem with academia pandering to the "Needs" of industry, curning out tons of VERY SPECIFIC NEED ENGINEERS, that are subject to the ebb and flow of industrial need and government funding, instead of men and women who can approach any problem (from a circuit design to a hypersaturated hillside sliding down on houses), and solve it in an effective manner... "

Jack of all trades, master of nothing whatsoever?  It's lovely to think of the "Renaissance Man" equivalent of engineer who has dabbled in it all, but can they then do anything well?

I wish I'd been able to specialize MORE than I was able to as an undergrad.  I came out of it not feeling like I knew enough about anything in particular to be able to do anything interesting.

It's one thing for a structural engineer to be capable with all of steel, concrete, wood, masonry and both bridge and building design (even some of the PE exams are reflecting that people tend to specialize in either bridge or building, but not both).  It's a slightly different thing to expect a "civil" engineer to have a pretty solid grasp on geotechnical matters and a fair clue about structural design.  But it's another thing entirely to expect someone to do everything that a structural engineer does AND everything that an electrical engineer does AND everything that a chemical engiener does etc.  If nothing else, there are few jobs that would allow one to do enough with each of those to maintain fluency.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

Quote:

I wish I'd been able to specialize MORE than I was able to as an undergrad.  I came out of it not feeling like I knew enough about anything in particular to be able to do anything interesting.

When you graduate you are not supposed to know how to do your job. Jobs are to specific. What you do as a structural engineer or environmental engineer at one company my not apply at all to what you do at another. Listen and learn from the people who have been doing what your company does. You'll find that a general approach to problem solving is better than a specific knowlege of how to do one particular thing (in theory only). And The more specialized you are the more you are limiting yourself to a "nitch" in the industry.

An interesting survey in Machine Design Magazine, from last year, stated that for engineers with 1 to 5 years of experience, they wish they'd taken more specialized engineering coursework. From 5 to 15 year, more courses in business and management. 15+ years, more liberal studdies and arts classes.

My statement was not about specialization, in general. It was regarding specialization during the undergraduate education. I wholeheartedly believe that specializing in during this phase of your education is the anthesis of a professional education. If you want a specialization, and you don't feel like you would garner this from "practicing engineers" whom you work with (lets not forget that professor are rarely practicing engineers), then by all means specialize in a masters program. But by doing so realize that you may at 21 be a little better prepaired to answer the questions, "Do I really know what I'm getting myself into?"

Quote:

If nothing else, there are few jobs that would allow one to do enough with each of those to maintain fluency.

Here is my story, I work in the aircraft industry. I have a specific job... working on integrating systems into Aircraft Structures. I deal constantly with electrical engineers, Stress/Structural engineers, chemical engineers, environmental engineers and various other scientists and engineers. I am not proficent in any of their fields. I am proficient in mine (which i knew nothing about when i graduated from college, and 10 years later I still learn somthing new every day). However, I can easily converse with each of them regarding their fields, through a basic understanding of the science behind it. Better than most other people here in my office. I owe this to the generalization of my education (which I forced on my school, not the other way around... because I had NO CLUE what I wanted to be when I grew up...and honestly I still don't.... Maybe I'll see if I can find a job in the buggy whip industry)

Wes C.

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

"An interesting survey in Machine Design Magazine, from last year, stated that for engineers with 1 to 5 years of experience, they wish they'd taken more specialized engineering coursework. From 5 to 15 year, more courses in business and management. 15+ years, more liberal studdies and arts classes."

very interesting ... maybe it reflects that new grads have to acquire a lot of knowledge quickly to do their jobs, then realise that there's more money to be had on the non-technical side, then (as retirement gets more relevant) maybe there are other things to be interested in !

RE: gaining and loosing engineering specialties

I did a very general degree - in fact it was just called engineering, not even mechanical engineering.

As a result it has given me the fundamentals for many disciplines, but taught me absolutely zip about (for example) what size bolt I should use in the presence of certain defined forces, which at the time I graduated I thought was a big failing in the syllabus.However, that sort of data is easily available and in practice has never been a problem.

The strength of the thorough generalist approach with an emphasis on fundamentals is that I have been able to move between several fields easily and with confidence, and also been able to fill te gaps between them, which, from a systems engineering perspective, is where the problems usually happen.

Taling of which the biggest failing in my degree was that we didn't study Systems Engineering in any significant fashion.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources