CO2 Sensors/ Demand Controlled Ventilation
CO2 Sensors/ Demand Controlled Ventilation
(OP)
Has anyone had experience with Demand Controlled Ventilation (DCV) specifically using CO2 sensors? Does this type of system work well? How sensitive are the sensors (if one person walks into a room, will it notice and increase the airflow)? We are looking to use this to control the flow through a Terminal unit (as more people come in, the unit opens more).
The Carrier literature tells how much money can be saved with a system like this, but the client is cautious about using a new type of system.
Any input about DCV systems would be appreciated.
Thanks,
keith
The Carrier literature tells how much money can be saved with a system like this, but the client is cautious about using a new type of system.
Any input about DCV systems would be appreciated.
Thanks,
keith





RE: CO2 Sensors/ Demand Controlled Ventilation
Savings can be generated when the occupancy is less than design and the outside air can be reduced below what most systems would be set for their minimum position. Beware though it may not work for all scenarios, for instance if you have an economizer on the system that provides a 55°F mixed condition, if on your coldest day your mixed condition is providing suitable ventilation for the space you will be ventilating or over-ventilating until the point at which your mechanical cooling is engaged. Where the DCV wouldn't do anything for you.
If you have a situation where you can reduce the air flow in heating with the DCV you would save some money. (This is all dependant on your operating and outside air conditions in your locale)
RE: CO2 Sensors/ Demand Controlled Ventilation
RE: CO2 Sensors/ Demand Controlled Ventilation
One piece of hardware we have had especially good success with is for temporary or relocatable classrooms and small zones. It will deliver correct ASHRAE Standard air with very good precision for 0-33 students. It can also deliver correct pressurization to very greatly or totally eliminate mold growth in exterior wall cavities and moldy odors in a breathing zone. Along with implementation of a few "esoteric" building science principles and concepts, we have totally eliminated long duration moldy odors in as little as two hours. We have seen energy consumption decreases of about $2.00 per day per classroom in SW Florida.
Correct and dynamic balancing of exhaust and fresh air flow rates is very simple with the hardware we have developed. It is also very effective at improving indoor air quality.
None of this require BACNet, as the systems can stand alone and work fully automatically according to the conditions in the zone receiving attention. Lower costs, simple installation, very easy troubleshooting and effectiveness evaluation.
We have measured ventilation rates in very expensive hotels that average over 700 cfm per occupant. Humidity, mold and odor problems are rampant, but the hotel says: "we have an expert who takes care of this and he is doing a good job." We try to talk to them about significant energy cost reductions as well as improvements in indoor air quality, but no one seems to care.
Curiously, the greatest barrier to implementing these systems, which have proven very effective in portable classrooms is typically the PE who is the head of the department. They are generally not well informed regarding building science, and they are often resistant to learning anything new. But of course, politics and "my brother in law is in the business" are constant inhibitors of improvements in students' and teachers' health and safety as well as school districts' reductions in energy use.
We suspect that Demand Controlled Ventilation DCV can reduce energy costs as much as 60% in many cases, But Nooooooo.
Overventilation is costly in terms of energy use, high indoor relative humidity and associated comfort problems and serious mold and other microbiological consequences.
We have designed and built broad rate delivery ventilation systems operating on electronically commutated motors that can deliver 0-650 cfm and a large capacity unit that will deliver 30-8700 cfm for large buildngs of greatly varying occupancy capacity. We are not aware of anyone else who has developed similar hardware. We would be most pleased to learn otherwise.
The systems we build work very well.
The CO2 control ventilation guru is Michael Schell, who is a bit hard to find. He has remarkable resources including an excellent program that can predict energy savings based upon a number of data that are easy to collect.
We suspect that to utilize such CO2 or Demand-controlled ventilation requires a person who is willing and able to "think outside the box."
In our experience, it is rare for us to find a school district PE who can do it. If the answers are not written in a book, they seem unable or unwilling to even consider the concepts. Perhaps a little of the "not invented here" syndrome. Surprising, but true.
We have come to share Mark Twain's cynicism about many of our fellow human beings.
Wayne
www.radonman.net
RE: CO2 Sensors/ Demand Controlled Ventilation
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RE: CO2 Sensors/ Demand Controlled Ventilation
Thanks again for the advise.