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Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

(OP)
Does anyone know of a source for a 36,000 RPM electric motor about 40 HP [30kw].

Thanks

Bob Farmer

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Why not take a standard 3,600 RPM induction motor and couple it to a 1:10 gear ratio transmission?

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

bobfarmer; The forces for that large a horsepower turning at that speed would be insane.  Trying to turn a turbo are we? :}

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Talk to Kompositprodukter in Vikmanshyttan, Sweden. They make motors like that. Water cooled with PM rotor and carbon fibre/epoxy composite sleeve to hold rotor together. And, yes Smoked, you are right, for compressors for fuel cells. They have made motors running at 80 000 RPM.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Man, I'd like to hear one!

What kind of diameter wpuld a 40Hp motor be?

What are they compressing for fuel cells, Hydrogen? Oxygen?

Is this to force the gas thru the membrane for higher conversion rates?

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Reuland makes such an animal, and they are found in California.
Regards,

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Smoked,

The compressors are for the air supply and are there to speed up the process. Fuel cells for busses and other large vehicles do not need a compressor since the membranes can be made with a large surface. There is no room for such large surfaces in a little car. So a compreessor is used instead.

I am not so sure about the diameter of the motor. The 30 000 RPM motors that I have seen have 5 or 6 kW output and are the size of a grape-fruit. It seems that the cooling occupies almost half the volume - the electric and magnetic parts are quite small.

I have tried to find an English text from them, but could not find it.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Thanks for the knowledge skogs!

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Try Revolve Magnetic Bearings an SKF company.  They build high speed motors for machine tool spindles. We balance many parts for them. Located in Calgary AB Canada.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

I agree about Rueland, I have used them before for 75HP 24,000rpm motors on high speed woodworking tools (giant routers), I know they can go up to 60,000rpm.

http://www.reuland.com/product/high-speed.html

"Our virtues and our failings are inseparable, like force and matter. When they separate, man is no more."   
Nikola Tesla

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

75HP 24,000rpm....big routers..

Yeah like they must have routed couches out of a single piece of wood!

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Cutting dovetail grooves in whole logs for a log house builder.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

have you considered non-electric motive power.
We are working on a bladeless, vaneless turbine which could be scaled up to produce 40 HP at 36,000 rpm using the fuel you currently use, hydrogen, propane, methane, etc.  
Let us know if we can help

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

What kind of torque are you expecting. I know of a VFD that will output 600Hz. Also, at Tinker AFB I have sold and properly commissioned VFDs that are now operating upwards of 18000RPM.

If you can live with 5.835 ft-lb of FLT at the motor shaft, you might be able to get away with it. If you expect the motor to deliver 40HP equivalent torque at 36,000RPM, you would need a 400HP motor I believe...and you are not likely to find one at all that any manufacturer of induction motors is going to rubberstamp your running one of their motors at that speed as there are simply too many (potentially very dangerous) unknowns...there is simply too much rotating mass there in my opinion to be reliable in a cast iron frame, much less safe.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

There is a German company named "Spindell" or similar that produces VFD's and motors for high speed router heads.  They used to have a district office in Grand Rapids Michigan USA but I believe it closed and the people were moved to the East Coast USA (seems like Connecticut or Massachusetts).

They were operating above 80000rpm when I talked to them about 2 years ago.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Satcon Power Systems made special motors for fuel cell and other exotic applications.  This type might not be a standard offering though.  Try www.satcon.com.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

AT 30Kw and 36000 RPM, you require 8NM torque.IF thats OKay you can try KAVO germany(www.kavo.de).You can try EV 13580-4 a 4 pole motor which can give your performance @ 600HZ.There a company in INDia AShwath Electric (Ashelec_Ksiyer@rediffmail.com) that has done 15KW @ 24000 RPM.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

You could check with Precise Corp. Racine, Wisconsin. They make high speed spindle motors 30K rpm and up. They may be able to help you.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Bob I think it is unlikely that you will find an off-the-shelf machine.  The suppliers mentioned above (and I don't think there is anyone missing!) have experience but this type of motor is certainly application specific.  At that sort of speed details such as method of coupling (related to balance), cooling, bearing design and the type of electronic drive become critical and there is no real standard solution that will work across the relatively small number of applications out there.

Sorry to put a damper on it but unless you have a potential market that would justify the considerable amount of engineering required to get it going, it may be better to go with eemotors suggestion - high speed gears.  My experience is with very high-speed turbo-alternators rather than motors, but the problems are much the same.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

(OP)
Thanks to all who responded. We however have reached the same conclusion as UKpete. No one seems to have what we need off the shelf and if one is to be built specifically for this project we will do that in house.  

Bob Farmer

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

Bob - you can certainly get help and components from some of the links mentioned.  If I may give you my opinion - the 4-pole permanent magnet rotor brushless ac machine with hybrid bearings (ceramic ball) is a good starting point.  

Calnetix (as mentioned by sreid) are worth talking to, they were a major supplier to one company I worked for, the product being a 100kW 90krpm 4-pole PM alternator with oil bearings.  They do in-house both the PM rotors (including the retention sleeve - critical technology, they own the DuPont carbon-fibre process) and the stators, but beware of using magnetic bearings as that is a long-term development.

RE: Source for 36,000 RPM electric motor

(OP)
We do magnetic bearings and high speed starter-generators. We were just looking to lighten our work load if a suitable unit were available.

Thanks again,

Bob Farmer

Synchrony Inc.

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