LPG injection systems for forced induction
LPG injection systems for forced induction
(OP)
Hey everyone, long time lurker, first time poster (as far as i remember). I did a search and nothing came up so please forgive me if this has been covered before.
I've been looking around lately at LPG injection setups for a turbo project i'm about to embark upon, and I am incredibly interested in some of the injection setups that are around, however there don't seem to be many people singing its praises locally (Australia), let alone making the products commercially available.
Until this caught my eye a few months ago... http://www.gas-injection.com/
from what technical information is available about this system, can anyone tell me whether it would be suited to a turbo setup at all? the fact that it can be tuned from any ecu is VERY appealing. And yes, I am aware that it isnt currently available.
does anyone have any more information on this system? any ups or downs?
how would it compare to a liquid injection system (I'm not very familiar with liquid LPG injection)?
any information or feedback will be welcomed with open arms!
thanks
Nick
I've been looking around lately at LPG injection setups for a turbo project i'm about to embark upon, and I am incredibly interested in some of the injection setups that are around, however there don't seem to be many people singing its praises locally (Australia), let alone making the products commercially available.
Until this caught my eye a few months ago... http://www.gas-injection.com/
from what technical information is available about this system, can anyone tell me whether it would be suited to a turbo setup at all? the fact that it can be tuned from any ecu is VERY appealing. And yes, I am aware that it isnt currently available.
does anyone have any more information on this system? any ups or downs?
how would it compare to a liquid injection system (I'm not very familiar with liquid LPG injection)?
any information or feedback will be welcomed with open arms!
thanks
Nick





RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
All turbocharging accomplishes is increasing air mass by pressure, all things being relative to atmospheric pressure.
Australia is possibly one of the most advanced areas in the world with LPG injection (Italy, Netherlands the other two).
One reason there are almost no commercial products is that they have to be system specific for injector sizing, fuel composition, pressures, tank sizing and volumes, vapor or liquid, local or regional laws or codes, and so on.
Franz
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RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
And yes I had more or less worked out that the specific requirements for every application is what was preventing mass production of LPG injection setups. However it is frustrating that the opposite is not true for a traditional LPG setup - ie. I can take almost any car in for a traditional LPG conversion, and after some thought and planning, the required components can be ordered from a catalogue.
My preference for LPG stems from a few things, mainly greater knock resistance, and cheaper fuel prices (price parity agreement aside). I definitely like the idea of running a higher static compression ratio. There are a few other things, but the bit about automatically passing emissions tests if the car runs on LPG is a definite plus.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
Franz
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Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
Naturally, I do not intend to exploit this, but the emissions test is one less thing to worry about when it comes time to get the car inspected.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
As for the hobbiest, this is a complicated process, as LPG has different properties than gasoline, and even moreso with liquid injection, treat them as two totally different concepts.
Simply adding boost changes the reference PSIA with delta P., the base table reference when calculating the fuel delivery tables.
Also for the hobbiest, liquid injection is NOT a process I would like someone to pursue. Didnt you read a post on this forum dealing with liquid injection? Pressures encountered with liquid injection can reach 400 psig at the injector.
Franz
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Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
http://www
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
the post from "notnats" above was also from me, that is my fathers handle and a combination of him not using the logout button and me not double checking before i posted means that things get confusing, so I'm sorry.
and FranzH could you please point me to that thread about liquid injection? I didn't see it while searching last week...
Thankyou all for your help!
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
thread71-129931
There are also plenty of prior references too, do a search.
Franz
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
The ubiquitous gas mixing valve placed at the blower intake would work, but then the entire induction system will be pressurised with an explosive air fuel mixture. People that have tried this have reported some fairly spectacular and destructive experiences.
Liquid LPG port injection is much safer for forced induction, but it is far from an easy thing to do. There has been some development work done here in Australia on this, but I have no details.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
As for liquid injection there are a couple of commercially available systems now, the new from McClaren-Icom and the older from Vialle. These will be the way to go on future to keep LPG environmental advantages over gasoline....
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
In the 70's, engines which were converted had multiple exhaust valve problems, but when hardned valves and seats were used, along with load compensated ignition timing, the problem has become almost non existent.
Franz
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
However, i'll be using a computer which has adjustable/variable load/rpm points to tune for both fuel and ignition, so i'm certain i'll be able to smooth it out correctly through the range... Of course, to be on the safe side, sodium filled exhaust valves are on the cards, but I'd probably use them on a petrol/gasoline engine anyway.
RE: LPG injection systems for forced induction
Adaptive learn for timing advance is traditionally achieved by knock sensors which may never detect engine knock when operating on propane.
Just dumping LPG in an engine is not a wise engineering solution. There are many factors which must be dealt with.
Franz
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.