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A question that everyone can answer!!

A question that everyone can answer!!

A question that everyone can answer!!

(OP)
Hello All!

I just want to hear input form other engineers about job searching strategies and amount of time spent looking.

I started by focusing on the automotive industries and mining/oil industries because that is where my internship experience has been but recently have been "spamming" resumes because I am beginning to feel a bit desperate.

1) I have been looking for about 6 months. It that a long time? It feels like I have been looking forever.
2) What can I do/learn to stay ahead or competitive in the job market?

Any advice would be great!

Thanks,

-LTOP

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Spamming resumes does not seem like a sensible move. Six months is a fair amount of time to have been looking, particularly since you have a couple of internships under your belt (well done).

However, you do seem rather unfocussed, maybe that comes across in your covering letter or resume?

Have you had your resume checked? Can you talk to someone where you did one of your internships? Are you sure you are looking in the right place for jobs?

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

What country are you in, what geographical area have you focused on, what is your degree, and what was your GPA? If you're a recent grad, have you gone to your on campus recruitment center for advice on resumes, interviews, contacts, etc?

Oh, not to be rude, but have you taken a really good look at yourself and the way you present yourself? Do you need to shave? Loose the piercings? Get a hair cut? Buy a suit and tie?

Interviewing is a matter of advertising you, your ability to fit in, and your skills, what are you advertising?

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

(OP)
Hello Greg,

I know I may come across as bit unfocused now, but in the beginning I was only targeting industries where I had experience.

This resume that I have posted on about 15 different job boards was checked by someone and accepted as a good resume.
I have recently made a functional resume that just outlines my work experience and skills but I can't say that I have had much success with that one.

As far as where I am looking - everywhere...I have built a little bit of a network base (even in Germany) but my timing doesn't seem to be on.

I have considered starting to do an "information interview" approach to widen my network - any input?

Thanks,

-LTOP

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

But how are you focusing on the specific jobs?  A general cover letter into HR will generally get you ZIP.  

Are you looking at specific openings and focusing your cover letter and CV at that particular opening?

TTFN

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

And what about those that you interned with?

Part of the benefits of interning is the contacts that you make.

My first job out of college was with the company that I worked part-time with.  I got other offers, but I accepted the offer from the company I worked at.

TTFN

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Are you in US? Are you an american or international students. I heard from my friends, some companies are not willing to employ international students, because they need to sponsor the H-1B visa. Also, I think networking is important in searching the jobs. Some positions are hidden. Hope it helps.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Have you found the right recruitment agency?

Often an industry will have one or two recruitment agencies that will handle alot of the job hunting/candidate finding problems of that area.
This is particularly true of areas where there aren't that many people with the skills and qualifications.

Find the right recruitment agency, talk to them and you may just find yourself a job.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Recruitment agancies are the leeches of the 21st century, employing people who were rejected as double glazing salesmen. Avoid them at all cost, unless you enjoy wasting your time going for interviews for jobs you'd never dream of applying for.   

Don't waste your time spamming HR departments of companies. Those Hitler youth have better things to do than reading resumes (CVs).

Check the internet to find out the company structure and any relevant department that you might think suitable. Phone the company and ask the person on the switchboard for the manager's name, if it's not on the internet, and write (not email), giving a brief description (no CV) and saying you'd like to meet and will phone next week.

Alternatively, look in the newspapers for companies that have a large recruitment drive on and apply even if there's no job suitable for you. As the company is generally in a listening mood, your resume might be forwarded on to a depertment that hadn't advertised but are maybe interested in taking someone on.   

It's all a matter of luck, and increasing your chances.

corus

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Most recruitment agencies are leeches who'll promise the earth and deliver nothing but if you can find the right one then it's well worth it.

Don't forget that HR are leeches too and love to pass the buck along the chain.

There's often one person/agency that really specialises in a field and knows the companies and the people working there and how to match a job to a person. If you can find that one it's worth your while.

The other place to look is the trade press. If you hear someone has just got a big contract you're working on then send them a CV with a cover letter saying you're interested in that project. If a company is looking for a few senior people to start a new team, send your CV because the next step is probably to hire the people for the team, and there will be adds for grads and the specific recruitment agencies I'm talking about there too.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

There are a handful of recruitment agencies that are out there that do work for you.  I am the product of 2 jobs via the same agency and they assisted me in gaining substantial upward moves both times I used them.  I would say that when using a recruitment agency, it only benefits you when you have 10 to 20 years of experience.  Less experience, they are leaches, more experience, you are a reject who cant find a job for some reason.  So know your limits when using a recruiter.

Bob

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

One thing that no one has mentioned yet...

Consider having your resume professionally done.  I paid $150 through career builder and got a TERRIFIC resume.  They'll do cover letters for an extra $50.  It's worth the $ and you can write it off on your taxes (if you are in US).  Make sure the cover letter is specifically tailored to each company you send your resume to.

You can also jump feet first into your trade associations and orgainizations.  Start attending some of their meetings.  You might be able to make some good job contact that way.

Recruiters can be good too, but are better used once you have experience in your field.  I found my current job though a recruiter.  He was great, and it only took him one week to get an interview and then an offer in.

Good luck!!

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Pay $150 to have a resume, $50 for a cover letter? IMO if you are coming from a senior education center and you don't know how to write..
I thought that being an engineer also imply that you are able to formulate your ideas and put them on paper. And that doesn't apply to autocad only.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

If you are entry-level and don't know what field you want to enter, recruitment agencies could be the way to go. Sure, they'll send you to all manner of unsuitable interviews in order to fulfil their own quotas, but they might also send you to an interview for something you would never have considered but turns out to be your ideal job.

I've always found that careers don't have to be meticulously planned; sometimes throwing in the element of chance can open up all sorts of interesting doors.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

I feel the need to go off on a tanget after svanels last comment.  Here is my response to his remarks,

I am very capable of writing a resume, and have written them in the past, however, someone who does it for a living is faster and more experienced at it that someone who has to write one every 5-10years when changing jobs.  To me it was well worth the money, and saved me a lot of time.  Not to mention resumes have changed a lot since I got out of school, especially since most need to be e-mail and internet friendly.

Say what you like, but I make enough money and have worked hard enough in my career not to have to spend my valuable hours at home researching the latest resume etiquette, writing it one, and then proof reading it for grammer errors.  I compare it to having a housecleaning service.  Sure, I could do it myself, but if I can afford not to why would I want to.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Your free to source out (buy) everything you like. But if I had to make a choice among engineers, looking at resumes I would look a guy who can handle situations, reports well, is able to tell what he has done or achieved for his previous companies, working experience etc. I would pick the one that stands out in the crowd.
If I would see something like copyright careerbuilder.com then

My thoughts: If he would have to handle a serious problem, how  he would put his words on paper? Would he call careerbuilder to make the problem statement?

If the applicant have some publications, maybe a column in a newspaper, technical magazine etc. I would analyze his writing style, does he knows his stuff, did he write it in an understandable way, did he reached his targeted audience, etc..

The C.V. is your first introduction, the second one is the interview.

But maybe I am too greedy to pay 50 bucks for a cover letter.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

For cover letter, I've googled for some samples, edited to suit my situation and it's done in 10 minutes.  Cover letters are pretty standardized anyways.

As for resume, although I haven't done it myself, $100 or so isn't a bad investment.  These professionals can create some impressive layout and fonts.  You provide them with the content and they make it look good.  Everything being equal, the one with a better resume wins.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

svanels,

Nice thing about outsourcing your resume is that the recipient does not know that you did not write it.  It does not have copyright careerbuilder on it.

Anyway, it's the interview that seals the deal.  If you have a great resume, and you cannot back that up in person then you won't get the job anyway.  Anyone can be made to look good (or at least better) on paper if the right words are used, which is what draws the company's interest towards you in the first place.  But when you look good on paper and you really are that good in person then you've got the job.

Good luck to LTOP.  I hope that your job search has improved since starting this thread.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Resumes (CVs) can make an impression but don't waste your money if you're sending them to a recruiting agency. They will rewrite your CV into their own format and all your fancy fonts and efforts making nice paragraphs etc will be wasted.

corus

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

I have some questions for both interviewers and interviewees.

For interviewers:  It may be a sensitive question but... here it goes - Does a foreign name on a resume have any effect on whether he/she will be contacted for an interview?

For interviewees (ones with foreign last and first names and ones with "anglicised" first name and foreign last names):  Have you ever experienced any discrimination due to having a foreign name?

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

what is a foreign name? Assuming you are in the states. Don't we all have foreign names. I am fourth generation but my name is still hungarian.

i would be more likely to be suspect of a CV with no american education or possible some foreign education. that is probably a better indicator of what you are saying

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

If by foreign you mean a name other than American, yes, this discrimination does happen but I do not know how prevelant it is.  I have heard of managers that skim through resumes and weed out all of the really foreign looking/sounding names before they have even met the person, which is wrong.  However, if the name is borderline the person may get an interview.  The persons ability to speak fluent English also makes a difference.  

Like I said, I do not agree with this practice at all, and I believe that it is even illegal in the US.  However, from experience in school and in the work place it is much more diffult to learn from / work with someone with a heavy foreign accent, especially since most Americans only speak English and are not accostumed to the different accents.

Of course as a southerner I hear it's hard for some northerners to understand us!  How shocking!

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Especially during times like this, this issue may be very sensitive.  Yes, I agree with you that most names are foreign in the United States.

At this time in history, it appears that most European names are accepted in the U.S.  The foreign names I was referring to are names from continents that are lesser known to the "majority" such as people from the islamic nations, far east, Africa, and so on.

An applicant can very well be a third generation from, say Pakistan, speaks only English, educated in America, but only retained a Pakistani name.  In a resume, the first thing you see is the NAME, before any credentials, education and so on.  Do people develop preconceived notions about the applicant due to the name?

Another example is Asian names.  Say you see a name called David Chang.  Obviously the first name is "western".  Then you see someone with a full Asian name (for example Kim Jong Il).  Do people feel more affinity towards the one with a western name?

As much as we would like to admit we are not racists, all of us ARE to some degree.  Familiar names are easier to remember.  I was just wondering what people feel about names that are less familiar to his/her own.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Somehow leak your name to a headhunter. They will do all the work at no cost to you. They only make money if you are hired (company will pay them). Ask for a lot of money. See what happens. Other than that, go for experience and get your PE then them magic doors start to open...

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

wyhun, you bring up a good distinction.  When I think foreign names I typically think of something other than a spanish or english name since those names are very common in the US.  Even my last name is of foreign orgion; it's german, but it's a shorter more common name in the US, and my first name is very American.

More middle eastern names tend to be the ones that I would consider as foreign names since their populations in the US are much less, although they are growing.  From what I've seen if someone has a American based first name and a foreign last name there is not as much discrimination or distinction.  I think most would assume that the person is second, third, etc generation and would therefore have exceptional spoken English.  I know it must be tough for people with foreign first and last names to live in the US in general, not just related to finding employment.  I'm sure though as America continues to become more and more multi-cultural it will become less of an issue.  It's probably less of an issue in areas of the US where a larger number of middle eastern persons live.

I'd be interested to see any posts from persons from the middle east, or any other non-US country, too, who are living and working in the US to learn if they really think that their names have made finding a job more difficult for them.

That's just been my experience so far, and I've spent most of my years in the South to Middle Eastern US states.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

How far up the job process are you?  Have you made it to the interview process?  Are you getting in the door?  You should analyze where you resume gets stopped and see what it takes to go from there.  I made a post some time ago about interviewing candidates, their appearance, etc, and I still stand by it.

No one knows you better than you, but that is a double edged sword.  Just because you know yourself well does not mean everyone else does too.  Taking some items in your resume for granted, (even for a professional writer, they only write what information you provide) you should take a long hard look at what information you are trying to convey to a prospective employer.  You have to be appealing.

Several times in the past I sent a resume to the company president outlining what I can provide the company and was offered a position, even though one was not posted.

Franz

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

astructurale,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  As this is a very touchy subject, I can see that not many are participating in the discussion.  Living and working in California is quite an experience.  So many diversity in culture and language.  Engineering field, especially, I find people of different ancestry both as employers and employees.  Not as many "gringos" compared to several decades ago.  Number of civil graduates are declining as a whole in the US, many foreign engineers filling the gap...

Apologies to LTOP for my digression.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

First find out for yourself where you'd want to work and WHY. This process can take quite a while. Then determine what particular interest this company may have in hiring you. This may take even longer and is a pain in the back but absolutely necessary. Then get your resume and letter in order. This should take a while too (6 months for these 3 steps together is not unusual) and requires assistance from at least one other person. Then go for it directly. Never spam resumes elsewhere than where your real interest is.

The best way by far to get "in" is by using people "inside" who know you, but it still won't work if you haven't found any "unique selling point". I'm working for my second (possibly last) company and used this strategy twice.

Good luck!

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

About 20 years ago, I was staffing (about 15 positions) a newly created department in a municipal government.  The positions ranged from minimal duty/minimal responsibility up to assistant to me, the manager.  According to the requirements, we had to post the positions outside the department.  I had one person's resume that kept coming to my attention, but for EACH position!  The key item was his experience.  "3 years operating a speciality sunglasses and novelty store", in those exact words.  All the applicant did was change the job code on each one, hoping that any of the positions would call him in.

Another applicant was well placed on the resume score sheet (your potential employer has one) where each item is listed according to a score.  When I called him in for an interview, his answering machine said "Hey dude!  I'm out getting drunk, getting l*** and partying hard this weekend, dont leave me a message until Monday!"  

I left this message:
"This is ***** ***** with the City of *****.  I had considered calling you in for an interview, but after hearing your message, I dont think you will be the right person for my assistant manager position."  I never heard back.

Dont spam resumes with exactly the same wording, they may go to the same interviewer who picks up the similarities.
Franz

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

Franzh your comments of the first applicant reminds me of a discusion we had sometime ago: "who is on the other side when you are chatting?" (no cameras). Some people assumed that it could be a computer (giving standard answers).Another opinion was it could be a monkey (or even a pig) if you feed him enough bananas rewarding his typing.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

I tried the internet job search method once about 5 years ago.  I had my resume posted on 10 of the bigger job search web sites as well as on two headhunter sites.

I spent about 6 months going through the job postings on all of these sites and submitting my resume in addtion to using the automatic job seeker functions of the web sites.

The end result of 6 months of effort was one job interview.

Luckily I was still employed with my old company so I could afford the lack of success.  I have my job with my new company using the old fashined method of networking.  A former colleague was working here and he presented my resume to the department manager and I had a job interview lined up in one day and a job offer a few hours after that interview.

Interesting thing is that my current employer was also listing the position for which I was hired on the internet job search engines.  I had applied over the internet and forwarded my resume and it went nowhere, but having a coworker present my resume to that same company resulted in a job offer in less than a week.

If I decide to move on in the future I'll still use the internet to look for openings and generally gage the market in the area I wish to work, but I no longer look to the internet job seach web sites to provide any real success.

RE: A question that everyone can answer!!

astructurale touched upon getting involved with trade organizations (like SME or ASME, since you're a Mech). These are great ways of finding job contacts. I have used the contacts I have established through SME on numerous occasions while I was working, and I have very recently embarked on a new job search myself, and I am definitely going to mine the contacts I have made there.

One word of caution though... While there is nothing wrong with saying that you are looking for work at the meetings, there are wrong ways to approach it. One guy started coming to meetings with a small CV printed on a sheet 1/4 the size of an  8.5x11 sheet. Actually when I first got one, I thought it was a good idea. And it isn't a bad one. But over the course of 2 months, I recieved 4 of these slips. He would hand them out at meetings, plant tours, BBQs. What's worse, I was still in college at the time! He would just blindly hand these to whoever didn't turn it down, like someone handing out flyers at a shopping mall. And at meetings he would usually find an excuse to leave after we read the minutes of the previous meetings. Why he never found a job through SME, and why he stopped attending meetings speaks for itself.

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