×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Olde English, appropriate?
14

Olde English, appropriate?

Olde English, appropriate?

(OP)
(Opinion)

 I can't stand it when people use antiquated english, like "colour", "favourite", etc.. I believe they do it on purpose to antagonize the rest of the planet.  It is so aggravating to find a drawing by a certain somebody at my company and it is rife with extra 'u's in it.  ARRGHH!! Am i alone in my griping??  I feel like slapping him sometimes!  Plus he is an ego maniac.


-  Fortune favors the bold adventurer

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Colour and Favourite are not antiquated english, it is British English, not the US variant.

Vita sine litteris mors est.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

2
Perhaps he's english and uses the correct english spelling of words

- Fortune favours the bold adventurer

corus

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Quote:

Am i alone in my griping?

Yep.

As stated above, it's perfectly fine English. It's just not typical American.

As an American who worked for a British company and later with a Brit, I've found the "u" creeping into my writing. I don't generally make the effort to remove it.

For that matter, when printing, I cross my sevens and Zs, a habit I picked up as a kid in Europe and Africa, where it's common place.

--------------------
Bring back the HP-15
www.hp15c.org
--------------------

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

2
I always thought it was a gift from the powers that be to ensure we Brits stood more than a sporting chance of beating our American friends at scrabble by slipping in extra letters and cunningly spelling tire as tyre ensuring extra points.

Unfortunately realising we were actually getting the upper hand at even one stupid little thing our American friends started cheating by replacing the letter s with the letter z in words like realise, ensuring we take our rightful place at the bottom of the pile.

On a slightly more serious note, which is the odd one out, how is colour/color spelt in other English speaking nations?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

NathanLee
Maybe you should be asking, "what is it about 'me' that I cant get along with this guy and why am I looking for other reasons to dislike him".
He is what he is. You are who you are. Both of you are hired to a job and you should do it as professionals.
Next chance you get buy him a pint.
Get over it or move on.

MHO
and speaking from experience
pennpoint

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

4
In Canada the correct spelling of colour is well.. exactly that..

The correct way to spell donut is "doughnut", but alas, even Tim Horton's has succumbed to the lazy spelling or our neighbours (ha! another one).

"I believe they do it on purpose to antagonize the rest of the planet."

Hmmm. The same thing can be said about a certain country's refusal to adopt the metric system. And who is the egomaniac?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Oh, and happy Canada Day to all my fellow Canucks reading this

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

The english language has been around a lot longer than America. If Americans wish to use their own modified version of it, that is fine.

But elsewhere around the world other english speaking countries just laugh at the American way of spelling. To hear Americans actually complain about it makes it even funnier.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Superfluous e's and double letters mildly annoy me.  I used to live in an apartment complex behind a strip mall named "Olde English Village Shoppes".  My response is simply to pronounce the extra letters.

I rather like "colour" and "favourite".  I cross my 7s, but not my Zs.

Doughnut is actually a contraction of "dough knot".

I favour the British placement of the period outside of the quotation marks.

That's enough personal revalations for one post.



RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Quote:

Superfluous e's and double letters mildly annoy me
C'mon MJ ... get with the programme.


Making the best use of this Forum.  FAQ559-716
How to get answers to your SW questions.  FAQ559-1091
Helpful SW websites every user should be aware of.  FAQ559-520

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

   How about aluminium?   :)

                            JHG

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Quote:

...Olde English Village Shoppes".  My response is simply to pronounce the extra letters.

MintJulep, when you pronounce the extra letters, are you consistent? So, you do say "Old-ee English Villag-ee Shopp-ee"? If not, why pick & choose between which silent letters you're going to pronounce?

--------------------
Bring back the HP-15
www.hp15c.org
--------------------

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

The OP doesn't have a long history with Eng-Tips.  Perhaps he was unaware that people from around the world read and participate in these fora.  I think responses should be kept to his opinion and not laughing at Americans in general.  Spanish speaking countries do not all speak the same spanish.  It stands to reason that things will be different with countries speaking english as well.  No one is necessarily correct.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

The Texas Department of Transportation in its infinite wisdom about a decade ago (or maybe more; I haven't lived in Texas quite that long) decided to adopt their own very special spelling of "diaphragm":  diafram.

They've gone back to the real way now.  I don't know exactly why, but maybe the TxDOT engineers got tired of people thinking they were illiterate.

Then again the US as a whole has taken to spelling "gauge" as "gage".  I was shocked the first time I saw that printed in a textbook.  Does anyone know how long that's been going on?

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

HgTX
You're reference to Gauge/gage reminded me of an event far in the past at work. A very young lady was doing some typing for me, she came accross my use of "gauge", I heard her ask another gal in the room if this was the correct spelling for such a device. I heard the reply "Look it up".
I was smiling for at least a minute. No change in the spelling when it came back to me. Did she look it up? Or was that too much trouble, I don't know.
I do use "gauge" for a device that measures pressure,  however when I am specifing the thickness of sheet metal I tend to use "gage" am I wrong. Yeah maybe.
I can live with it or I can change.

Regards
pennpoint
 

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I've seen both used for both.  In my experience I'm more likely to see opposite of your pattern--"gage" for the device, "gauge" for the size.

I like "gauge", though I keep wanting to spell it "guage", kinda like "guard".

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

For us foreigners (or is it foriners) Microsoft spell checkers can be full of delights (delites ?) as Americans discover new and inventive ways to spell.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Warpspeed
I believe thats "feriners"

pennpoint

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

When I learned spanish (later in life) it ruined my english spelling as I have trouble remembering when to and when not to use double letters in english.  Spanish does not typically use double letters except where the double letter is a stand alone letter itself.  My daughter who is a University Professor of Spanish complains about the same problem.

rmw

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Doughnut vs Donut?

I always thought that a doughnut was something made from dough.  So what exactly is a donut made from?  Do?  If so, from which animal ("doggy-do" perhaps)?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Ironically, doughnuts (donuts) are usually made from batter.

Dough would be the better word to describe what bagels are made from, which makes things so much more confusing...

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

If Donuts come from the doggy-do animal then where do the nuts come from?

Don't answer.

corus

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I cross 7's and Z's.  I have european parents, so that's how it started.  I continued because it was something that annoed teacher, because they didn't lke it but they couldn't call it "wrong".

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I started crossing 7s and Zs (zeds) in highschool drafting so as not to be confused with 1s (or 9s) and 2s (especially Z).
30 some-odd years later it's still the 'norm'.

Sometimes (where confusion is possible) I'll 'stroke' a zero (like a diameter symbol) to differentiate it from the letter 'O'.

regards,

Hydroformer

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Coming from a purely Canadian point of view, and to be more precise, from MY point of view:

I find it mildly annoying when I see Canadians spell things the American way.  I learned in school to spell things the proper english way; colour, favour, gauge. I try not to get too hot and bothered by it, but still, I cringe inside when I see things spelled wrong (from a Canadian standpoint).

(With all due respect to the Americans reading this!)

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

how abour mitre & centre.....?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

tmdixon:I also find it annoying when I see fellow Canucks use the 'American' spelling for some words ;I was always confused however by the spelling of the arena where the Washington Capitals played hockey, before the MCI Center- wasn't it called the Capital Centre ?

did arto mean the headdress, beveled joint or measurement? metre or meter or mitre?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

(OP)
What a boistrouuuus foruuum.. As an American, we make the rules dammit!  Our internet is shaping the planet to speak our language.  It's high time you all adopt our spellings!! bwah hah hah hah hah!  

btw, pennpoint., i wasn't asking for pyschoanalysis, only to spur debate and conversation.  

sure are a lot of brits in here... guess i should know thy audience.. Extra u's may be technically correct, but do they make you look like a dictious dinosaur (in US)? When advertisers want to imply something is old, expensive, or 'distinctively euro' they throw in extra u's. This guy @ work that uses them incessantly.  I asked him what the story was and he admitted it was mostly to piss people off.  

for what it's worth, i cross 7's, slash zeros if it may be confusing, never use extra u's, cross z's, use the most widely used spellings, and use metric 80% of the time. I follow the slashing conventions to avoid confusion, purely rational basis.  My boss can't stand it. He says "Dammit! Use the normal way."  Utilizing slashing practically eliminate the murphy factor in translating handwritten doc's.  Has anybody ever had a boss mandate a slashings convention or not?


Does anybody know how the rest of Euro spells color, humor, favorite?  Do they use archaic British or the original american english?  

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

"original american english"

THAT is the funniest thing I have read/heard today!



RE: Olde English, appropriate?

(OP)
thanks tmdixon!  just trying to lighten the mood.  i know how engineers can get at work..

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

This link brings back some olde memories of high school here in the US.  I was new to the US school system and in many ways stood out like a sore thumb being a recent UK transplant.  I found the US teachers to lack in understanding when I would misspell words (colour &  favour to name a couple) and use different descriptions for common objects (pavement, crisps, & rubbers).  And a little of topic but the clothing (types & condition) the kids wear is ridiculous.  In public schools there should be standards of dress.  When my children enter school they will be dressed in daytime cloths not PJs and slippers…….

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

(OP)
Dear Justkeepgiviner,

  thank you for your time and exceptional commentary.. Good point about the fact that we don't adopt metric.  I personally use metric almost exclusively and on a daily basis. If you can see how it can be irratating to see measurements in inches and feets, then you may also be possible of comprehending how it is irritating to see 'olde english' words in modern america.  It is a mute point anyway because the internet will get everbody speaking american in two or three generations.  

in response to your other questions, I don't appreciate your commentaries intentions tho, so, in closing, may i remind you that canada was a hair's breadth from being conquered by early americans.  you can thank the french (!!) for saving canada from american rap, clothes, taxes, and spelling.  American's aren't all lazy anyways, we just have MTV polluting our brains.  Dont make us start shooting stuff.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

NathanLee - If you are going to get on your soapbox about American English, you might want to pay a little more attention to capitalization and punctuation.

Quote (NathanLee):

It is a mute point anyway because the internet will get everbody speaking american in two or three generations.
I see no reason why anyone should remain silent on the matter.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Internet American?

The Internet may be American (or at least have American ancestors), but the World Wide Web was invented in Switzerland by a Brit.

Most Americans think that the Web IS the internet though, so it probably willbe one day.  Like the Enigma machine and other bits of hijacked British history.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Is that the same French as the Americans have to thank for the fact that they do not sit around in bowler hats drinking tea and watching cricket?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

It all comes down to standardisation through dictionaries. Noah Webster standardised the US spellings we are all arguing about almost exactly 200 years ago. So if you look it up in Webster you will get one standard answer. If you look it up in the OED you will get another.

If I am writing a paper for a US journal I use US spellings. If I am writing a paper for a journal from any other part of the world I use British spellings. It's really not that hard!

I suspect that because people from the USA tend to see only the US spellings, the British spellings look odd. The rest of the world sees both forms all the time and so it doesn't seem to bother or suprise them.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

There are many countries around the world which adopted English as their official language.  India for one.  Philippines may be another...  Outside of the United States and UK, which standard form of English do people use around the globe?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

As an American who grew up speaking Cajun French and an Army brat that was educated in spelling and grammer by a Brit, I hold steadfastly to 'grey', 'doughnut', 'theatre', and gage is not even a word.

But I have given up on 'colour' and all those extra 'u's'.  To this day, I cannot remember where the punctuation goes in quotations, confuse 'se' with 'ze', and 'ent' with 'ant'.

Apparently I am doomed to be mocked forever.

ps:  I thought Al Gore invented the internet?

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

The majority of British English dictionaries give -ize and -ise endings as equally valid alternatives.

Stephen Pinker's "Words and Rules" is good reading for those interested in how words become regularised/-ized and standardised/-ized with time. New words or nouns turned into verbs almost always take regularised plurals/participles (unless you are one of those anal retentives who thinks that the plural of "kleenex" should be "kleenices"). He gives one example of an irregular verb "to fly" which in baseball terms then becomes a noun ("a fly ball", "a fly out") which then gets turned back into a verb again "to fly out" but which is now reglularised ("He flied out to left field" not "He flew out to left field")

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Quote (SomptingGuy):

The Internet may be American (or at least have American ancestors), but the World Wide Web was invented in Switzerland by a Brit.
  Who is the American ancestor - Al Gore?
Ajack1 - I wish America would embrace the European sports like the Euros embrace Amercian sports.  I miss playing Cricket.  I still have all my gear and am starting to teach my stepson how to play Cricket.  If it's not MLB, NFL, NBA, or Nascar ESPN gives it about 10 seconds of airtime.  

ESPN - "Lance just regained the yellow jersey, now onto Baseball "I felt like a football team had hit me from behind. Next thing I knew, I'm on the ground trying to defend myself," Gamboa said. "It just happened so fast."


http://www.eworldwire.com/headlines/majornewswire/sportsfansofamerica.htm

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

NathanLee,

You ask "Does anybody know how the rest of Euro spells color, humor, favorite?"

All I know is this: Color is spelled Färg, Farbe, Couleur, Colour in Swedish, German, French, British English.

I see no point in your question. There are only two countries in Europe where English is the native language. BTW, both use that "awful" British spelling.

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I think twelve months in a proper English Public School would do Nathan the world of good. He should be forced to play cricket and rugby too. And drink tea.....

Character building stuff.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I know my children will never know what I went through in the English public school system......I remember getting my ars spanked by the HeadMaster for slinging rocks (and I don't mean dealing rock). Something that would be unheard of in today's litigious American society.  Okay, gotta run it's tea time.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Back to the original question...

"I can't stand it when people use antiquated english, ... Am i alone in my griping??"

No, I'm totally with you.  My personal (un)favourite is "shoppe" - I really hate it - so plastic.  Mind you, I've never seen it publicly displayed outside a retail establishment anywhere other than America.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Quote (NathanLee):

Does anybody know how the rest of Euro spells color, humor, favorite?

In Germany, its Farbe, Humor, und Favorit.

The irony is that in spite of (or because of) my German ancestry, I had to look up the German word for "humor".

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

skogsgurra

Which two countries out of Wales, Scotland, Ireland and English do you class as having English as its native language?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Wait, I thought Norman-French was the native language of England?  Or was it Saxon-German?  Norse?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Heckler--do they still allow corporal punishment in schools in the UK?  It was legal in various places in the US as recently as 15 years ago; for all I know it might still be.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

It is still legal in the private schools I sent my kids to, and that is why I sent them there, among other associated things.

rmw

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Heckler,

Our American society is beyond litigious.  If you are a teacher who spanked a kid, you'd be arrested.  If you are a kid slinging rocks, you'd be arrested.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

apsix,

I was referring to the UK and Ireland. Should I have used nation instead, perhaps?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Quote (apsix):

Which two countries out of Wales, Scotland, Ireland and English do you class as having English as its native language?
When did Wales, Scotland, and English become countries?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Some terms:

England, Scotland Ireland and Wales are countries.

"Great Britain" comprises England, Scotland and Wales.

"UK", or to give it its full name: "The United Kindom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" comprises England, Scotland, Wales and a (disputed) chunk of Ireland.

"Eire" is the bit of Ireland not part of the UK.

England, Scotland Ireland and Wales all have English as their most common language, although for Scotland, Ireland and Wales (and Cornwall for that matter) English is not the native language.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

It was my understanding that England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales are not independant countries, but are semi-autonomous regions within the country known as the UK.  Ireland, on the other hand, is an independant country.

Is that not correct?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

That is correct.  The normal confusions are:

1) GB vs UK (GB is a subset of UK).
2) Eire vs Ireland vs ROI (Eire and ROI never include Northern Ireland).

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I think this thread has lost its way.Frist things first NathenLee got it wrong by calling it olde English it should by Middle English

English is still a developing language and just like Latin there is bound to some fragmentation along the way. English unlike many other European languages is not afraid to absorb new words into every day use. There is no commission of wise old men passing judgment on words it just develops naturally.


RE: Olde English, appropriate?

This is one of my pet peeves. As mentioned England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales are the four countries that make up the UK (think of the World Cup for instance). However, Wales, like Andorra, Liechtenstein and Monaco is strictly speaking a Principality but is also considered a country in its own right.

And, yes, this thread has lost its way rather.


------------
See FAQ569-1083 for details on how to make best use of Eng-Tips.com

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Old English (Anglo-Saxon) - spoken from ~450 (Anglo-Saxon invasion) to ~1100 (Norman conquest). Modern Freisian is similar to Old English.

Middle English - The language of Chaucer, spoken from ~1100 to ~1400 (The time of the Great Vowel Shift when pronounciation changed from something like modern Dutch to something like modern English)

Early Modern English - The language of Shakespeare, Book of Common Prayer and King James Bible, ~1450 to ~1700

Modern English - ~1700 to present.

The extra letters in Olde English Shoppe are not due to language differences but due to the fact that there was no standardised spelling in British English. US spelling is much more standardised thanks to Noah Webster.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

(OP)
warpseed


hmm, you know what they say about those in glass houses..  you don't know me so keep it on subject. btb, proper english discipline would be in for a rude mo-fo awakening cause i'm a bad bad man..   


Thanks to everyone who posted! Can we agree to use American English over in the states, and keep the antiquity on the island?  oh, and canada too..  heh heh

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

2
I think we got to the heart of the problem Noah Webster could not spell Colour, Honour and so he made up his own and disguised it under the banner of American patriotism to the poorly educated colonists

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Ha!

Time to throw another wrench into this conversation's gears!

Last summer I was in Mountain View, California to teach a training course. At lunch, I was approached by one of my students who was concerned because I was talking about the Z-Axis (pronounced 'Zed', like Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction: "Zed's dead, baby... Zed's dead.."), when all he could find were the X, Y and 'Zee' axis. (I'm told its a Canadian thing?)

Nathan,  I hope you didn't take my comments too seriously... I was just pointing out that we all have our differences that can sometimes get under each other's skins. I see what you mean, but I still think trying to decipher a drawing that was dimensioned in both mm and inches (new drafter, long story) is far worse than figuring out the difference between colour and color.

It goes to show though, that two cultures can evolve differently (Canadians have their own English too, eh?) even though we are separated by a border that is no more than a fence in a farmer's field in some places. Remember, we have two officical languages here, so if we really want to confuse the Americans, we say couleur, faveur, and voisin (instead of colour, favour and neighbour).

Unfortunately, the French no longer protect us from American culture, since we are so inundated with American media and propaganda that the CRTC (Canadian version of the FAA) had to step in and ensure a minimum of "Canadian Content" on TV and Radio. I'd say the media (Internet included) got us a lot closer to being taken over by the Americans than the "hair's breadth" back in 1812 (Where a certain House on Pensylvania Avenue was burned down, I think it was repainted White since).

I just hope that when the US runs out of fresh water and lumber, people don't start making up stories about nucular(sic) stockpiles and Weapons of Mass Distraction stored in our vast tundra.

Cheers

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

(OP)
justkeepgiviner,

good posting, i like to spur conversation and i only jibe canada in good jest.  i could get into admirable canadian traits, but that doesn't rile the masses.. anyways, when the US is full of toxic waste we'll get our just desserts fair and square.  

This forum is just a means to vent some workplace frustrations i had.  thanks to pennpoint my whole attitude is changed forever!!! his words of unfinite wisdom really guided me ;)  I wanted to see if others out there had similar gripes, it seems to have opened pandora's box of how similar nations can get at each others necks.  you make a great point about american media takeover.  I give you your choice, toxic waste and water or american media?!?  eh? eh?? write back with your selection please?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

==> CRTC (Canadian version of the FAA)
You mean the FCC?  

Now, the FAA, and its Candian counterpart, and the differences in Air Traffic Control ...  another thread.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I'll take the toxic waste over CNN any day. Then again, it's hard to tell what's what...

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Aha! CajunCenturion, I stand corrected. Too many acronyms! OMG!

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

(OP)
toxic waste over mtv is my choice too.  at least with toxic waste my daugter wont be a promiscoius pre teen whore..

RE: Olde English, appropriate?


Nathan,

Good to see that you can accept arguments. Even if they do not always go your way.

I must give you this: For a "u"-hater it is strange to see your spelling of "unfinite"

Still friends?

Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

There's a lot in this thread about Olde UK english Vs Modern US alternatives.

Are there many examples where US usage has remained unchanged over the last few hundred years, while the UK approach has altered?

The only one I can think of offhand is "....first to have gotten the visuals from Neptune"

Is "gotten" still widely used in the US, or is it now an archaism confined only to people (folks?) like Dan Quayle?

A.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I use it.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

zeusfaber wrote:

"Are there many examples where US usage has remained unchanged over the last few hundred years, while the UK approach has altered?"

One off the top of my head is the past tense of "to dive". Many US English speakers still use the original irregular form, "dove" ("Yesterday he dove down to the reef"), while British English has long since regularised it to "dived"

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

When in school many years ago, here in Canada, the English I learnt was just that (as per the Oxford Dictionary).... Colour, favour, honour, centre, doughnut, analyse, finalise, litre are all my favourites.


Cheers.

Randall Shelaga AScT
Manager, Technical Operations
DIRAND Aerotech Inc.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Here in Australia we are somewhat in the middle.

At least in my day, we were taught the olde English spelling, and officially we still use it. In formal documentation, nothing else will do.

At a lower level we are constantly being bombarded with American culture, Hollywood, CNN, and the internet. American based spell checkers are probably the most pervasive evil as far as perverting the traditional "correct" spelling goes.

In oZ we now seem to have two parallel systems, and most people are getting used to seeing and accepting both without having a violent psychological reaction.

No engineer here would ever dare to write "gage" in a printed technical manual. But the same engineer would not comment on seeing it around elsewhere.

 

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

The only time I use "gotten" is when it is prefaced with "for", but I don't remember why!

What makes me cringe is when I hear a person (of any nationality ... but in particular my Canadian son-in-law) say, "I don't gotta do that today".


Making the best use of this Forum.  FAQ559-716
How to get answers to your SW questions.  FAQ559-1091
Helpful SW websites every user should be aware of.  FAQ559-520

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

CBL:
At least it's (a bit) better than "I don't gotta do nothing today".

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I don't gotta do nothin today because I done did it already like that there.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Wow, this topic has gone off course.  I would just add it's not the different spellings that tend to annoy me - it's when a Southern US business man opens up a "Shoppe" in a high class neighborhood in California or a new English immigrant opens up a "bar" with very US name and theme (US style sports bar).

Every culture has its charm and fake immitations of any culture are irritating.

I cross 7's (my dad was USAF and this is common military practise), I do not cross 7's or 0's.  I use US/English units 90% of the time (oil industry), but can easily use SI/metric units.  Extra "u"'s are great for those in countries where that is the normal spelling, but it's not for me.  I preffer platypi over platypuses.  I believe most languages in the world are being destroyed by political correctness.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

The -us -i plural construct is a latin one. "Platypus" comes from the Greek "platupous" meaning "flat-footed" and therefore the plural should be "platypuses" in much the same way that the plural of "octopus" is "octopuses" not "octopi". A quick look at a dictionary is all that is needed.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

The BIG problem I see with the US spelling style is the inconsistency e.g. romanticism - romanticize . what good reason is there to change the s to a z. If you check through a good dictionary you will see many of these inconsistent letter changes.  

Naresuan University
Phitsanulok
Thailand

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

ajack1 - I love the Scrabble reference.  I play it often on the computer to practice.  Now I need to try adding those u's too!

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

What about "cheque" and "check".  Is "cheque" (the monetary instrument) even recognized as a word in the U.S. ?

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

English is an evolving language like any other.  Most speakers of American Standard English, I would think, understand the word cheque.

There are many rules in the English language but good number of exceptions as well.

To experience the abuse/misuse of the english language (by the Japanese and others) try a site called www.engrish.com

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Back to the OP...
You're not going to acheive an international spelling of any word.  

If you are an American company, your company as a whole should probably adopt traditional American spellings. (How did your first grade teacher spell it?)  The perception of uniformity within your comapny is important for your customers to see.  

On a side note... I am often forced to write my notes in multiple languages.  It is usually English, then Spanish, then Protugese.  I can't wait for the day we have to start writting the American then British English translations. ;)

Thanks
SC

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

Yes, but Americans may roar with laughter at "Oriental Engrish" what they fail to realise is that most of the rest of the world laugh at Americans hilarious attempts to spell.

It is all part of the decay in human intellect that is becoming all too pervasive these days.

When a US vice president spells potato "potatoe" on international TV, the guy just looks like a complete fool.

(Dan Quayle in 1992)
 

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I think we should make the most of it whilst it last. In a few years time I am sure we will all talk and spell the same, cuz thtz real man innit.

I am sure we will then all long for the days when color/ colour or whether you call a bar a pub or not were an issue.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

thread1010-88740 is a list of British and American English words

Vita sine litteris mors est.

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

That list is missing one of my favourites:

AMERICAN: English muffin, ENGLISH: Unknown

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

AMERICAN: English (pool/snooker/billiards), ENGLISH: Side spin.

AMERICAN: English Units, ENGLISH: ??? (the best I have come up with on Wikipedia is "US Customary Units").

If by "English muffin" you mean a sort of flatish savoury bread roll eaten toasted for breakfast then in English that would be (or rather, used to be) just "Muffin". However to most English people under the age of 25, a "Muffin" is now a sweet sponge cake with bits in that you get at Starbucks. This is fine by me. Give me the sugar and chocolate any day (easy on the blueberries though).

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

AMERICAN: English Muffin = ENGLISH: Muffin
AMERICAN: English Units = ENGLISH: Imperial Units
AMERICAN: Tea Biscuit = ENGLISH: Scone


Making the best use of this Forum.  FAQ559-716
How to get answers to your SW questions.  FAQ559-1091
Helpful SW websites every user should be aware of.  FAQ559-520

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

AMERICAN: Muffin = ENGLISH: ?
AMERICAN: Scone = ENGLISH: ?

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

CorBlimeyLimey

American "English units" are only the same as English "Imperial" units if you stick to inches, feet, yards, pounds and seconds. Hundredweight, ton and fluid ounce (for example) are not the same in both systems.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

I was once told by an American colleague that it was we Brits that broke our own system when we opted for the "metric" gallon.  We changed the size of the gallon so that it weighed about 10 lbs rather than 8.  Thus we now have 20 fluid oz to a pint rather than 16.  Can anyone confirm this?

(This was in response to my continual moaning about American beer: "Want a pint of beer?".  "No thanks, but I'll have 4/5 of a pint of ice-cold horse-p*** in a frosty mug though.")

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

In the "Expressions..." thread, someone posted a link to a joke.  In case you didn't dig 'em out, there's a bunch more where that one came from.  For instance, http://www.inflection-point.com/jokes/6.htm seems appropriate.

DB

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

MikeyP ... Good point!

HgTX ... I don't know. I have never heard the term scone used up here. Are Scones & Tea Biscuits the same thing in the US?

SomptingGuy ... To my (very) limited knowledge of history the Brtish pint has always been 20 fl.oz.


Making the best use of this Forum.  FAQ559-716
How to get answers to your SW questions.  FAQ559-1091
Helpful SW websites every user should be aware of.  FAQ559-520

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

CBL:  not sure what a tea biscuit is.  A scone is lumpy, rough-textured, somewhat sweet but far less so than a cookie, a couple of inches across (except at nouveaux cafes in which drink sizes start at "tall", in which case it's 4" across) and an inch or so high in the center, and often contains raisins/sultanas.  

I could really go for one right now.  Too bad I'm far too lazy to bake and my mother isn't here.

Ooh!  Y'all call it a "fruit scone".  http://www.ukstudentlife.com/Britain/Food/Cooking/Scone.htm

Okay, now what's our muffin?  It's less sweet than a cupcake but shaped like one.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: Olde English, appropriate?

SomptingGuy,

   My Mechanic's Calculator (printed in England MDCCCXXXV), says that an ale gallon is 282 cubic inches and a wine gallon 231 cubic inches.  It goes on to say that by an act of parliament passed in 1824 and passed into execution in 1826, an imperial gallon is 277.274 cubic inches.

   I will assume this indicates a strong preference for beer.  :)

                        JHG

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources