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MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE
3

MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

(OP)
That is the question when changing jobs. What say you folks?

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

I have a great quality of life and that came from my choosing engineering as a profession.  As far as pay, early on I was struggling, but I was never satisfied that my employeers were understanding of my value.  I never blamed the employeers, I took it upon myself to find employers that did understand my value and would compensate me for it....

Life is good....LOL

Bob

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE


No one EVER went to their death thinking that they should have taken a higher paying job if it meant more time away from their friends and family.

If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

I think job satisfaction comes into the bargain as well as variety in the work for me. Money isn't 1-2-3, but it's a necessary evil. I'm sure everyone has there own definition of what quality of life means, but for me it stems from the things mentioned above (as well as a nice cold beer on a Friday). That said, if money hadn't been invented, then I'd still be a happy Engineer doing what I do now.

Although, it might be different if you asked me on a monday morning...


------------
See FAQ569-1083 for details on how to make best use of Eng-Tips.com

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Most definately quality of life!  I agree with casseopeia.

As you get older most will choose less pay for more time off.  I'd gladly give up salary for more vacation time and less time in the office.

Heck, I'd do engineering as a part-time job if it was more acceptable in our line of work.  Unfortunately that is not the case.  (If any of you find otherwise, please let me know! )

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

As a struggling young engineer with very little pay, I longed for higher paying positions.  At this point in my career, I could definitely use more money, but current salary is enough to sustain a decent lifestyle.  I used to work long hours and not enough time spent at home.  Now, I wouldn't sacrifice my valuable time with my family over more money.

Money is good, but you can't buy back time.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

I should add that I LOVE what I do for a living; a structural engineer.  So many people hate thier chosen jobs.  I'm doing what I've wanted to do since I was 13 years old.  BUT, that said I just wish I did not have to do it 40hours a week.  I think my life-work balance shifted after having a family of my own to care for.  Like so many of you have already said, you can't buy back time.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Quality of life <EOM>

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

To me, quality of life is more important, at least considering where I am in my life.  I would still encourage those with few roots to seek that $$$, as it tends to effect the rate for any later positions.  However, once those roots start to take hold, family and home life should take precedence.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

I managed to increase both on my latest job change.  Life does dole out some "win-wins" once in a whle.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Very true Tick.  Same thing happened to me.  But if you don't go looking for that better opportunity you'll never find it.  Having the courage to take that leap makes all  the difference.

I do agree with the "young and single" going after the $$$, as long as you don't mind ending up with a job that you willl likely leave when your priorities change. Unfortunately, the days of working at the same place for life are gone.  When I first started working I thought that I would work at that place the rest of my working life so it was hard to take that leap to look for other work.  

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

It is part of our nature to be never satisfied with what we have and envy the next guy who seems to make more. I would rather make just enough to get by and have enough time to enjoy life.

You can work hard to become a millionaire but after you spend the first  dollar you are no longer a millionaire. You will have to get another million just to maintain the first one.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Quality of Life

I am currently switching to another company, and a big influence was "quality of life."  I am taking less pay, but drastically shorter commute and more time off.  Granted many things went into the decision, but having a wife and a 2yr old little girl was probable the greatest influence.  I will save an average of 2hrs a day on commute, and that is an extra 2hrs with the ones that really matter.  I wish I could see her all day everyday, but that is not life, so the more I see them the happier I am as a person.

No matter how bad my day is at work, I know I can come home to a child that can brighten my day with just a smile.  That could change when she is a teenager, but for now, I'm good.

Last thing, I like what I do, but it is not who I am, my family will be my legacy.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Money becomes far less important when you have enough of it.

When it is a matter of paying the bills and keeping a roof over your head, money is very important, when you have enough to get by but wonder do I want to work more hours just so I can have a newer car or some other better commodity than the perfectly good one you already own, it is not a hard call to make, at least for me.

I have no desire to die rich.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

But that's part of the trap of money; there's NEVER enough...  at least for some people.

TTFN

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

2
Keeping a roof over one's head factors into the quality of life question too, though.  Part of the decision must consider how various things that money can buy affect quality of life.  (Am I miserable living in a slum with all my free time?  Do I have any time left to play with all the nice toys I bought with my considerable overtime pay?)

I work for the government, and one of the things I liked about coming to work here is I was surrounded by people who value time over money.  My kinda crowd.  Definitely a quality-of-life bias.  I figure one might find a way to use extra time to make extra money, but one can't use the extra money to buy extra time.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

"...one might find a way to use extra time to make extra money, but one can't use the extra money to buy extra time."
A good turn of phrase, Hg.  I like that.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

DJYork,

I know what you mean.  I have a 6month old son.  He's the best thing that has ever happened to me.  I'd love to see him all day everyday.  I also love my career.  I'm very blessed to have a job I enjoy.  But I'd much rather do my job part-time and be with my family more.  I don't even care if my salary is a lot less workng part-time.  Unfortunately in our line of work there is not much opportunity for part-time work. (If anyone can prove me wrong on that I'd be happy to hear about it!)

IRStuff,
If we listen to our hearts on how much money is enough I think most would be satisfied.  But too often we get "caught-up" in making money.  The more you earn the more you spend.  I've had to deal with that in my life.  But when I sit and really think and look at my life I'd give most of it away to spend more time with the people in my life that I care about.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Both.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

I know this is going off at a bit of a tangent from the money vs life balance but its entertained me this week so I want to share (even if no one else cares!)

Our client has recently set up a new "business model" for want of a better phrase where all his where all his consultants and clients work together in one big happy clappy partnership all based within the clients office, which means that most people working here now commute from all over the UK to spend Monday to Friday at the clients office and only get to go home at weekend. On a recent "Employee Satisfaction Survey" we were asked if we agree or disagree with the following statement

The xxxx partnership provides a good work / life balance.


Hmmm maybe if the life part of the balance refers to the time spent behind the wheel trying to get a little time at home to see my family! It wouldn't be quite so frustrating if the money came with the disruption but the compensation is peanuts. Time to dust off the CV I think...

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

That stinks kchayfie!
Do you even get work done while at someone elses office as opposed to being at your own desk?  I would think that productivity would go do with a relationship like that.  Do the clients even like it?  Sounds like your boss is saving his money while passing off the little expenses to his clients. (office space, heating, cooling, electricity, ect).  He sure is presumptious to expect his clients to house his staff.  I can't see how this is a positive venture.  Just a thought!

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

ah no - its worse than that. we're here at the clients insistence and he's charging us extortionate overhead for the privilege of having desks here! and as you say, productivity has plummeted. Although maybe I don't need to spend an hour catching up on the gossip from the office back home everytime I call with a 5 minute question!

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

(OP)
I walk to work right now. I was offered a job where the commute would involve a lot of stress for $10k more a year. it's a tough decision.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Vooter

Evaluate your current situation and determine how badly you need this additional money.  Also look into how many years will it take at the current company to earn extra $10k.

After taxes, this increase amounts to around $500 to $600 per month.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

vooter

How much of the after tax 10k is going to be left after the cost of the commute, parking etc., not to mention the emotional cost and maybe even a drop in work performance if the stress of the commute is high.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

(OP)
Oh, I worked it out all right... After all the taxes (live and work in different states with city income taxes), it comes to a raise of about $2 an hour - or $16 a day - or $80 a week - or about $300 a month.

The raise would be unseen; in fact, the added commuting costs would result in me being able to save less than I do now.

BUT - the work would be interesting. Would I be able to capitalize on that and dive into it, inconvenience be gosh-darned? I'm leaning towards not thinking I would.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Those who value the money over quality of life, did you ever meet someone who on his dying bed was complaining:
sh.. I wished I had spend more time at the office!

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

No, but on the other hand when I'm 70 I might very well find myself wishing I had put more money into retirement accounts.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Why the "or" in your "rich or happy?" question?

There is no reason why you shouldn't have both; tough to achieve, but if you ask the question this way then you set yourself only two possible choices; one or the other. This creates a mind set that makes the other, unspoken options, more difficult to achieve.

In fact there are in fact four options:
the first two the question presents:
poor and happy
rich and unhappy

and the two it hides:
rich and happy
poor and unhappy

Knowing all the options enables you to address all the options. If you only address the presented options then your thinking is blinkered and you fail to address the other alternatives.

Examples of this kind of thinking is found in Edward De Bono's book, "Lateral Thinking".

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

When my son was born eleven years ago I was unemployed, and I took the first job I found, as a computer trainer on Windows and MS Office.  I loved that job and did it for five years even though it paid a pittance and I am still in debt from that time.  However, I was home most of the time and when I finished work, I could leave.

I have since moved up the salary ladder, and I would say that, although I am glad for the experiences I have had, money loses its importance with respect to time only beyond a certain threshold, below which you can't live off what you make.  Money may not buy happiness, but it is easier to be happy when money pressures are not among your worries.

William

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Quote:


 Money may not buy happiness, but it is easier to be happy when money pressures are not among your worries

That is true, but if in the mean time you are to much occupied making money, you can miss the boat.
Consider this:

He climbed the highest mountains, explored the deepest seas, fought with sharks and did the most dangerous sports to to show his wife how much he loved her.
She left him for another man, because he was never home...


vooter I suspect that you are young (not that I am old and wise ) but I suspect that you do not have yet the responsibilities (family, kids etc..) that older folks have.
Why? because you should be asking them instead of here in this forum (no offense)
The choice is yours, we cannot live your life for you. When I started my only "assets" were a wife, a 5 month old daughter, $1,500 and my degree.
If I capitalize what I have now, I would say I made it. Still there are some things I would have done different, if I had the possibility to do it over again.
I love my job, but I would not trade my time-off for the money and sacrifice my social life.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

"Money can't buy happiness, but it could sure let you choose your own form of misery...." - Old Orion Pirate Proverb

I think we need to stay flexible throughout our careers, and I think we are fortunate that we work in a profession that allows this flexibilty.

I used to work at a firm, made GOBS of money, but travel a lot and long hours kept me away from family. A point in my life came up when I was needed at home on a regular, and "predictable" basis, so I changed jobs. Took one that only required 40-42 hours a week, hardly no travel, and I was home at 4:30 every evening. It was a BIG cut in pay, but the other "benies" made up for it.

But now, things have changed, kids are older, and my wife would be comfortable once again if I couldn't be home as much. So we're "looking". Got a few very good possibilities that will pay a lot more than what I'm doing now, but will require more of my time. But at this time in our lives, that will be ok - because our requirements have changed....
 
I think the key is to stay tuned to YOUR most immediate requirements. For me, it's "family", followed by "family", then "family". Making gobs of money is high on the list, for sure, but certainly not in the top three.  

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Hah what a question... Scientific research has pointed out that winning a major (multi million) lottery prize makes you happy during two weeks. After that, you become as grumpy as you always used to be and discover that more money means more problems.

Quality of life is everything. Eat well, drink well, mow your lawn, move your butt at least once a week and be gentle with your loved ones.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

epoisses,

I would sure like to give it a try. Just to be sure!

----------------------------------

One day my ship will come in.
But with my luck, I'll be at the airport!

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Don't forget that an unchallenging job can diminish your quality of life.

Figure out what you love to do, and success will follow; with or without money.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Wishful thinking - How about both ?  I suppose, there are not too many out there who enjoy the luxury of both.

HVAC68

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Sure, it can happen.  I work 35 hours at a job I like and the rest of the time I spend with my family.

TTFN



RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

I'm in the process of changing jobs and my decision was two fold, quality of life and quality of work. Turns out that there appears to be little difference in the quality of life between my current job and the new job I am taking, and I am pretty happy with my current quality of life. But the quality of work on the new job looks to be much improved. Not to mention a nice improvement in compensation as well, but believe it or not the main reason I am moving is the improved quality of work.

It will be interesting to see how good my due diligence was.....

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

There's nothing more pathetic than somebody who works 40-45 hours / week whining about why they're getting passed up by others who work more and devote more to the career. While "nobody ever lied on their deathbed wishing they'd spent more time at the office" makes a better Hallmark card, there are consequences to the alternative to long hours and hard work.

14159

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Sure, the consequence is having a REAL life.  I've yet to be passed over on something that I wasn't given the right to first refusal.

It's a bit smug to crow about putting in however many hours that you do, when there's no objective measure of whether those are productive hours or simply hours put in for crowing about.  I had a boss whose sole purpose in going to work on Saturdays was to call other people at home to let them know that he was at work.  Frankly, he was a real loser.

It's likewise smug for you to assume that someone who doesn't put in your hours is slacking.  It may be that they're simply much more efficient and focussed.

TTFN



RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

IRStuff:

It was smug, but am I the only one who's worked in an office where half the so-called professional employees:

1. think studying at home to learn a new skill is too much of an intrusion on personal/family time? Then whenever a difficult technical problem comes up, go find the one who actually studies and ask him?

2. cried uncle for the supervisor to bail them out if that project became a bit too much rather than stepping up, working more and getting it done?

3. never brought a new skill, technology, or tool into the office because the time spent on development might force them to work until 5:01?

4. then seemed confused because other employees became owners and worked on higher-profile projects sooner?

Yep. It was smug. That hallmark card stuff gets all over my nerves. Life's equation can't be boiled down to such simple terms. The assumption seems to be that all families that are driven to accomplish more than usual will look back with regret upon the lost time. Give me a break. That's just as smug. Some people work like mad and spend every last other waking second with their immediate family. Some people work 40 hours, spend a double-digit number of hours golfing, fishing, exercising, and then spend whatever's left on family time.

14159

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

14159, long hours does not mean hard work. And genuine feelings does not mean Hallmark card stuff. (although I must admit that the sweeping deadbed statement is a bit easy). There needs to be a good balance between the two. "Work like mad" is just not OK, you'll find out sooner or later.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Having an interesting job forms a large part of quality of life. Spending eight hours a day miserable so you can spend half an hour extra at home in the evenings isn't much of a trade off.

There's also the chance that sacrificing a great opportunity for someone can leave you bitter and resentful.

There is also a trade off between quality of life now and quality of life in the future. It might be worth doing a long commute and putting up with seven kinds of crap now, because it means that in two years you can start your own business and work from home.

Money, The Job and Family aren't either/or decisions.
Thery're a very complicated balancing act that's difficult to get right.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

True.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Is it easy?  I think not.  Just like looking both ways before you cross the street.  Too often, people get wrapped up in the so-called climb to success for a better future and ignore the present.  

So, here's another cliche: "Your children will NEVER be 3-years old again."  Do what you will with that.

TTFN



RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Quality of life all depends on the individual.  If that person is defined by his/her work then that is where he should devote the majority of his time, but if that person feels defined by his family and the legacy at home, their time will be devoted more to them.  It all depends on what you consider important in life.  Work or family, and if you do not have family, you are generally the one spouting off that the people that have families do not spend enough time at work.

Granted sometimes hours do reflect hard work, but hard work does not always equal efficiency.  I know as a young EIT there are engineers that can do a design in 15 minutes that takes me an hour.  Am I working harder, you bet, but am I more efficient, no.  I am working to grasp concepts and constructible solutions instead of textbook solutions.  

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

I think C.Montgomery Burns (old bald dude in The Simpsons) said it best,
" Friends, family, religion, these are the three demons you must eliminate to be successful."

My own personal reflection on this;

1) Friends, need em, need plenty of friends and/or contacts to get ahead in life. However the restraint required not to smack them can be enormous sometimes.
2) Family, need em, who else will put up with your nonsense when you complain, and who else will you train to take over the world, or at least start a whole mess of problems. However they also sap your energy, but the investment is worth it for world domination.
3) Religion, that can go, I don't like to rely on inanimate things to help me out, and I have a clear conscience, well very little conscience anyway.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Balanced life for a married guy (give or take):
8 hours work
8 hours self (sleep)
8 hours family

Balanced life for a single guy:
8 hours work
8 hours sleep
8 hours self

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Very accurate!
Whenever this married guy wants some self time, it's either after midnight (the PS2) or before runrise (a ride on the mountainbike), makes only 6 hours sleep or less. Can't seem to change 8 hours work or 8 hours family time.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Proper balance and quality of life may mean something very different to me than it means to you. I like the quote from Lee Roy Parnell's song entitled I had To Let It Go,

Quote:

Life is just a puzzle inside a mystery. And your idea of heaven might look like hell to me.


Maui

Constants aren't; variables won't.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

epoisses, funny how you mention PS2.  I know some guys married to it.  It takes real dedication to actually finish a level.

I've given up after video games turned 3D.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

PS2 - the joy of spending hours doing the most useless thing in the world. You don't even realise how useless it is until you forget to save your game before you finally switch the thing off.

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

Reminds me of several years ago. My wife's relatives in NYC wanted me to move back and take a job there. I told them I could  not afford the move, etc. My stupid sister in law said I could get a second job to bridge the gap.(???)

The biggest slap in the face was the two offers I got that were comparable to what I was making in the Chicago area. What were they thinking?

RE: MORE PAY OR QUALITY OF LIFE

(OP)
plasgears:

You echo an enormous problem with New York City. Housing prices - for anything (decent or not) - are out of this world. the alternative is a long commute, upwards of two hours or more each way. It must be assumed, on the part of the firms that employ engineers, that this is a problem you can deal with. The Wall Street folks, apparently, make an astonishing amount of money in salary (assuming that they pay monthly rent/mortgage, in addition to the maintence of that expansive professional wardrobe, and the associated $15 martinis) and thus can afford to live decently without the abusive commute.

The engineering firms don't pay journeymen anywhere near $200k a year, so we live in our little shoebox apartments and wonder, constantly, what we're doing wrong.

Of course, I could get a side job or two, what the heck?

My decision to stay put was largely due to the expense of moving, both the move itself and the hardship that such a move would impose on my life (not just lifestyle) in general.

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