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Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

(OP)
When you sign up with your VAR, your updates are included with your monthly "support fee".... so why wouldn't you upgrade from 2004?

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

   ...because I am on 2003.  

   I am not sure what the problem is.  I'm not the administrator here.

                       JHG

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

A lot of companies do not pay the support fee. Management either doesn't think it is important or don't want to spend the money.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

There could be a multitude of reason:

1. Main customer still using old rev.
2. Did buy support
3. In the middle of a long development project and no available resources to test and validate the integration of a new release.  I've been through that....not wanting to trash the data due to new release.

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

"There is no trouble so great or grave that cannot be much diminished by a nice cup of tea"  Bernard-Paul Heroux
 

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Because we have crappy hardware and speed will only get worse with 2005.

Plus we are a LARGE company and there are to many people with their hands in the cookie jar.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Why are you asking about SW04 when SW05 is current, and SW06 is just around the corner?

The main reason I think is a lack of justification to those with the check book.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Heckler's #3 is one very good reason not to upgrade.  If you have a version that works, why "upgrade" to something unproven when you don't have the resources availabele to check it.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

I always prove out each release and SP on one PC for about a month. If OK, I upgrade others. Never had a problem doing so. Running 2004 and 2006 comming up, IMO it is time to upgrade.
I hear all the time people waiting for PC prices to come down before they buy one. Wait too long, you will have a different OS and prices jump up again or your software won't run on it.
I say don't jump on the band wagon right away, but don't wait too long either.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Chris,

I agree about the price point of computers....it's an interesting issue when talking about running highend MCAD software.  I'm at the top of the computer food chain at my company....I just got a brand new Dell 370 and it filters down to the designers   But with the new performance enhancements hardware will become less of an issue....according to Jeremy (SWx Corporate Rep) they have totally reworked how SWx handles the raw feature geometry which in turn has increased performance....anyway, a little off topic.

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

"There is no trouble so great or grave that cannot be much diminished by a nice cup of tea"  Bernard-Paul Heroux
 

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Looking back to '05, I don't blame people for hanging onto a tried-and-true version when they know it works.  Think of how many bugs existed when that first came out.  Not just with new features, but mainly with ones that have been around for years!  This is why we will wait until 2006 is a few service packs into the game before we upgrade.  Some people may even space them further.  Like not upgrading to 2006 until the next major release comes out.  I love the program.  But I deffinately think they should have been a little more careful with '05.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

I don't see any more bugs in 05 than 04.
IMO, it depends on your settings, hardware, and the way models are created.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, no problems with 04 so cannot justify the expense to 05, we will be looking at 06 closely.

Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. And scratch where it itches.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

MimiN63,

I thought it was 2004 that was the problem release!  I went from 2003 to 2005 and noticed a big difference.  2006 looks extremely promising

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

We held off on upgrading for about six months, primarily because our IT department didn't want to support multiple versions.  (It wasn't realistic for everyone to upgrade at the same time.)  Plus, each new version of SolidWorks tends to be more resource-intensive, so companies that prefer to hold onto computer equipment as long as possible (like mine) have lots of incentive not to upgrade.  Shortly after we upgraded to 2005, we had major crashing problems.  The main reasons were outdated computer equipment, insufficient RAM and registry corruption.  (SBaugh's FAQ about properly uninstalling SolidWorks came in very handy for that one.)

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

We usually wait until SP1.0 at least before upgrading...by then they usually get it within 50% of the previous release stability. Got a nice suprise with SW2005, only get hard system reboot 1x daily instead of 4x and not getting the Unhandled Exception every hour anymore.

Getting all new hardware when we hit 2006SP1.0 so maybe that will let us go a whole day.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

(OP)
Hmmm. I guess our VAR pretty much gets you...  They would not sell us the software without the monthly support. But I suppose it never occurred to me to ask for JUST the software. And really, their support is kinda lame. I get quicker answers to my problems here.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Heckler –

There were verifications of problems w/ 2005 such as the following:

-    blocks not coming in or coming in w/ lots of errors
-    cropped views screwing up
-    problems selecting things
-    Problems patterning radius’s and components
-    Problems w/ layers
-    Nuances like cosmetic threads in shaded mode stopped working when ’05 was released.

Most of the fixes for these issues came out in SP’s 1.1 and 2.0.  I mean, just look how long the list of fixes was!!!  But that didn’t happen until nearly 6 months after the release.  

I agree that 2006 looks very nice.  I’m looking forward to using it.  However, I and many others remain skeptical.

It was so bad, that SW and Trimech each sent a representative out to the company at the same time to try and address all the issues.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

The way I see it, all SP's and releases are going to have various bugs for everyone. Unless you hear of something major, I don't see a reason not to upgrade. IMO.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

I agree with you, Chris, but the problem is defining "major".  A "small" bug may push production to the right while you figure out a work-around.  Too far to the right loses money, contracts, etc.  I stay current because I need to interface with clients that remain current, but I also keep my VAR close by in case of emergency.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Wanna hear the reason I am still stuck on 2004.  My company decided to implement a pdm system called Windchill.  For those that don't know, Windchill is a PTC (Pro-Engineer) product.  It is not in PTC's best interest to keep their pdm up to date with the changes made in other software.  The latest version of SW that windchill can handle is 2004.  The clincher is my company pays the SW support fee.  We have had 2005 sitting on a shelf here since it was released.
Fun Fun Fun.

BTW the pdm decision was made before I came on board.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

We are in the same boat as Shaggy except our pdm is smarteam. IT must upgrade any custom programing before moving forward. Also there is the dreaded fear of bugs with the initial release.

Just upgraded to 2004 last fall and in IT's infinate wisdom loaded the original release (no service packs). That was fun for a couple of months. We also have 2005 hidden in some dark secret room somewhere no time frame on when we might see it.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Fear of the unknown. I have seen people using SW2001+ although the CDs for SW2005 installation are on their desk.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

IT also tied our hands, so bad in fact, we skiped SW04 and moved from SW03 to SW05.  SW04 sat on the shelf the entire time.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

You miss sooooo much information when you skip a release. I recommend that if you skip a release get the what's new from the one you skipped and review it, before looking at the next major release of SW.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

www.3dvisiontech.com
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

We are in the same boat as Shaggy and snaper only our PDM is PDMWorks. How can this be??... Our vault server runs NT. No more NT support in PDMWorks 2005. AFIK 2004 isn't supposed to supprt NT either, but it works on our system after hitting "ignor" on the error that pops up during install.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Snaper,
I feel your pain. We also have Smarteam and it is truly ridiculous that two products owned by the same company,  Dassault Systemes, can't get along. My understanding is that they are even located in the same building in Boston but the developement groups don't talk to each other. We are still on SW2004 and hope to upgrade to SW2005 by the end of the month. But, before we upgrade to SW2005 we need to upgrade Smarteam to V5R14. We are currently using V5R11. However, even after the Smarteam upgrade the highest version of Solidworks that Smarteam will "support" is SW2005 SP2.0.

I don't know about you, but I am starting to wonder if PDMWORKS might be a better fit for us. At least that way we know that the two are more likely to keep in sync with each other as far a new releases are concerned. We hate being held hostage by Smarteam. We are losing out on some of the new functionality that Solidworks puts out and could be beneficial to us. I know that SW2006 is right around the corner so I will be missing out on that as well.

Regards,
Dan Olid

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Why are all five of us still on 2004 when we have 2005 in house and potentially 2006 on the way?

1. 2004 is 10% faster than 2005.
2. The retraining for 2005 was not worth it considering that the first really stable service pack came out about 3 months before 2006 would hit the streets.
3. The new features, while certainly nice, were not enough incentive to upgrade.
4. We don't have to share files with anyone.
5. There are more bugs in 2005 than in 2004 thus negating the argument that you are paying for bug fixes.

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

I have to disagree.

I have been doing this job for 3 years now and I noticed a trend within the end of the release of SW03 going into SW04.

Towards the end of one release and the beginning of another my calls drop off. SW04 the calls didn’t drop off at all. I was still sending numerous bug reports into SW at the end of SW04. At the first release SW05 Sp0.0 the calls continued and picked up some while I was supporting both SW04 and 05. But now that most have moved over to SW05 and since the end of 05 is upon us, my calls are down again. It’s almost stagnating. I can actually get other things done now.

The reason I know they are down is because I am required to track all incoming Calls/Voicemail/ and Email that comes my way. Those numbers reflect what is going on. Those numbers are important to me to track how and when calls are made.

My disagreement is:

1) As for speed, I found and felt SW05 to be faster IMO.  
2) Retraining???? what do you mean retraining, what do you have to do to retrain someone that has been using SW04? It's not that different then SW04 was, IMHO.
3) That is something only a company can decide on.
4) N/A
5) IMO SW04 was much bugger and still is, then SW05. I still see many SW04 bug posts, but SW05 has it’s share too I won’t lie about that.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

www.3dvisiontech.com
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

I agree with Scott 100%. We also had more bugs with 2004 than 2005. There is also not training in the upgrading. Just learning a few little tricks with the additions of new stuff in each upgrade. You will have more to learn going from 2004 to 2006 than 2004-2005-2006.
I stay up to date with each SP and upgrade and don't see the big problems that most write about.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

I think for most mid-large sized companies on Solidworks you have to be extremely careful when upgrading because it's not easy at all to go back to the old version.

As such, you have to do A LOT of testing not just with major versions, but with each SP as well, because problems can appear with a specifc SP that can be "deadly" (i.e. bug with one SP of 2003 that would crash SW when you imported a DWG - ouch).  However you can never find ALL the bugs with testing.

So it's a cost/benefits thing - weighing the benefits of any new functionality against tampering with an environment that, if not perfect, is at least known.  

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

That is why it is encouraged to fully test the software before upgrading. We have a customer with at 50 seats and they fully test a version before they upgrade. They don't find everything, but they find enough to confirm whether or not they will upgrade.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

www.3dvisiontech.com
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

I do testing. I test the new version on a laptop for about a month before upgrading the company. I am the biggest SW user and I know which features we use.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Testing is definetely the best way to figure out whether to upgrade or not.  However testing on a large scale is note easily done in a production environment, because Solidworks is not backwards compatible (what happens to that new data if you don't upgrade?).  

As such you have to do the best job you can in simulating a production environment by getting people to dedicate their time to testing, re-producing work they've already done in the production environment.  This is a luxury that not all companies can afford.

Whatever problems you find or read about with a new version are a LOT easier to swallow if there is a significant gain in functionality with that new version.  

As well, you can widen the teeth of the fine-toothed comb you use during testing if you know that any minor problems with the new version are worth living with to get the new functionality.




RE: Dumb question: why is anyone still using 2004?

Like I mentioned above we have a large customer that does the same thing as you Production enviroment and they seem to manage it. But not all companies are the same. If you don't test to some degree, then your best to never move up to the next version.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies

www.3dvisiontech.com
www.scottjbaugh.com
FAQ731-376
FAQ559-716 - SW Fora Users

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