PLURAL NOUNS
PLURAL NOUNS
(OP)
I consider some words (nouns) as "plural". To use them any other way jangles my communication senses. Examples;
1. troops 2. equipment 3. software.
The news people say occasionally 6 troops, (or any number).
I think that is an incorrect use of the word troops.
Also, equipments. Adding an s does not help me. The word is already plural.
The same goes for software. Adding an s does not benefit understanding.
Any opinions?
1. troops 2. equipment 3. software.
The news people say occasionally 6 troops, (or any number).
I think that is an incorrect use of the word troops.
Also, equipments. Adding an s does not help me. The word is already plural.
The same goes for software. Adding an s does not benefit understanding.
Any opinions?
Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.





RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
troop = trooper = soldier,
troops = troopers = soldiers
"equipments" is wrong; equipment, like sheep, is its own plural !?
is "softwares" the same as "different types of software"
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Dictionary.com has as the second definition:
troops Military units; soldiers
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
I always use the plural of "software" as "programs".
On the other hand, "cannon" is plural of "cannon"!
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thread1010-88608
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weather, wether, weather
their, there, they're
check, cheque
etc.
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I too am really glad I got to learn it the easy way, as a first language.
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
DaveAtkins
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
US: My family lives in Virginia.
UK: My family live in London.
By the way, what does "Support Our Troops" mean?
William
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Back to plurals:
"Data" used to be and for many still is the plural of "datum". In the last few decades a "mass noun" usage has been coming along, like "water" and "furniture", where singular verb marking is used.
Old way: The data show...
New way: The data shows...
I must confess I'm among the young upstarts for whom "data" is a mass noun, not a plural count noun. But I know there are lots of people who think I'm wrong, so I generally try to keep "data" out of subject position so I don't have to make the verb choice.
Wimpy Hg way: We can see from the data that...
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
French to the rescue. What about dance troupe? At dance events we use the term troupe to mean a single collection of dancers who perform together. At festivals, you can have several troupes perform at the event. Both 'sound' OK to me.
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
And back to the original post, where are you hearing "equipments" and "softwares"? Eew. A quick googling suggests that such usages are mostly by non-native speakers/writers of English.
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
It is the same situation with hardware. A screw is hardware. All of the nuts and bolts together are hardware.
Troop really irks me though.
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"When he got back to the farm he would get his shotgun and go and shoot rabbits"
Why the singular form in the first case and the plural in the second?
M
--
Dr Michael F Platten
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
jimbo
Yes, I am working sporadically on the FAQ I mentioned.
It is more work than I expected. Semi-retired guys are busy, ya know.
Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
William
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Nothing wrong with cannons, although cannon is used for plural also.
Equipment is usually used as a collective noun, so no plural is appropriate. But occasionally, a person or item is associated with an equipment (that with which he is equipped). So several people can have their respective equipments, which is quite in order. The military use the word in this way (so it must be right).
In most of these cases, context is everything.
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Although it is done, I do not think that abbreviating trooper to troop is a good idea. To take a singular word and abbreviate it to its normal plural forum, while retaining the singular meaning, is asking for confusion and ambiguity.
Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
"An equipment" sounds wrong to my American ears. I would use "a piece of equipment" for the singular. Not nearly as efficient.
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
If the "20,000 troops" usage is as old as I suspect it is (anyone got an OED to check?) then that meaning of "troops" is kind of the opposite of "equipment"--it's a plural that has no singular, rather than a singular mass noun that has no plural. Kind of like "pants" and "scissors".
A more formal description here:
http://home.hia.no/~signeo/number1.html
I guess there are just plain two meanings of "troops". One meaning is the plural of "troop" meaning "group of soldiers", and the other distinct meaning is "soldiers en masse" and has no singular, and we shouldn't try to tie the two meanings together in a logical manner.
If you look here:
http://www2.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/nouns/plural.htm
"equipment" and "software" would belong in the righthand (singular) column for what they call aggregate nouns and I would call mass nouns. Except that "troops" isn't really the same as most mass nouns, because it can still take a number like 20,000 while most nouns of that kind can't take a number. Smaller numbers like 6 or 20 seem odder, but maybe that's because large numbers still give the impression of an undefined large body of soldiers while smaller numbers get us thinking about the individuals, and makes the word seem much more like it ought to be the plural form of something else.
I'll shut up now.
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
If 20 soldiers is meant, say 20 soldiers, or 20 sailors, or 20 marines, or 20 air force persons, or 20 members of the coast guard.
The misuse may be acceptable to some, but it surely isn't to me. It is either correct or not correct.
The beat goes on.
jimbo
Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
It's 20 Airmen, in this context meaning 20 members of the Air Force, regardless of rank. I'm less sure of Coast Guard members, but would still call them "Sailors", unless I was talking of Grunts, Squids, Jarheads and Coasties. (There are, of course, no such coarse terms for us Airmen)
Chris
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
I have been called "jarhead" and other kinds of "head", which will get you into a fight if needed. (PS I still would fight but at my age I would lose).
Some of those other terms are less than complimentary, so care is needed to use them appropriately.
This has been a satisfactory discussion.
jimbo
Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
A lot of language issues realy don't work that way.
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
To ease your mind, the terms are used appropriately, and respectfully. No fights needed (or wanted, it hurts too much when the alcohol wears off).
Hats off to you and all others who served and/or are serving.
Chris
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You could always call him a duckhead .....
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if there's one mouse or 2 mice
why not one house or 2 hice?
And remember - the 2nd mouse gets the cheese......
"If A equals success, then the formula is: A = X + Y + Z, X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut."
-- by Albert Einstein
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: PLURAL NOUNS
Can you count it or define an exact quantity?
If yes, it can be singular or plural - use "many"
If no, it is collective - use "much"
You don't have one equipment, or six equipment(s), but you do have one piece of equipment, or six pieces of equipment.
You don't have one water, or ten water(s), you have much water, or you have one ounce of water, or ten ounces of water.
software - collective
software program - singular
software programs - plural
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What is the plural of moose?
The comedian Gahlager (of smashing watermelon fame) did a skit on trying to learn the English language that was hilarious.
I catch it in reruns occasionally and laugh my butt off every time.
David