×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Does it matter a jot?
3

Does it matter a jot?

Does it matter a jot?

(OP)
I must say I really like this forum, partly because it is educational but mostly as it highlights the differences between the UK and other countries, anyway to my point, how important REALLY is it to be able to communicate in a near perfect way?

I fully understand that many see it as lazy or a sign of a bad education to not be able to express views in a correct manner and I would be the first to admit that my CV would not make it past the waste paper bin with some posters on here, however.

Because of the state of the automotive industry in the UK we now find ourselves working more and more for German companies, now whilst my English may not be great it knocks spots off my German. I can just about make myself understood and only in the same way as a free translator would do, although I am taking classes.

Many of the Germans I deal with whilst speaking far better English than I speak German are still far from perfect, but yet we are able to understand each other and overcome problems, despite appalling punctuation, spelling and use of inappropriate wording. Is this just because we try hard too rather than picking fault or are we really sitting on a time bomb?

Whilst we would never sign a legal contract or the like without having it professionally translated first, practically all every day problems can be sorted out. Obviously in engineering a picture (drawing or CAD) is worth a thousand words, but is that really it.

So their you have it, or should that be there you have it? Does it really matter?

RE: Does it matter a jot?

I think there are 3 types of communication: professional, technical and casual.  Each one requires a different level of adherence to grammar and structure.  Ultimately though, all forms of communication should be unambiguous.

I think we are all in agreement that we use different levels of communication to serve different purposes.  The email we write to the purchasing supervisor to check lead times of a component is going to be vastly different than the email we write to our counterparts on the other side of the planet to verify mechanical specifications, and this will be vastly different than the email we write to our spouses to ensure they know what time dinner reservations are set for.

I guess I'm answering your question as, "Sometimes it does matter."

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Does it matter a jot?

Part of it has to with the familiarity with your audience.

I also think it matters when you're writing a proposal, be it to a potential customer or to management.  The proposal itself sets a tone and establishes an impression.  It becomes a reflection of, if not part of, what you're trying to sell.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: Does it matter a jot?

MadMango - what about body language?  Is it a fourth type?  

RE: Does it matter a jot?

Body language - very significant. I read a news story about how to use body language to non-verbally tell a co-worker to: "Please leave me alone...I don't want to hear your story, etc."

RE: Does it matter a jot?


I think MadMango provided a very good summary.  The point about ambiguity is extremely important for me.  I work in the USA for a German company that has operations around the world.  The supply base extends to every continent.  I spend a great deal of time in meetings, and these meetings take too much time, are not as productive as they should be, and consume excessive amounts of resources because of issues surrounding ambiguity.  Whether it is due to language barriers, differences in cultures/opinions/backgrounds, variation in measurement of part geometry/features, or anything else, ambiguity reduces efficiency, increases costs, promotes distrust/disinterest/miscommunication, and impairs genuine understanding.

RE: Does it matter a jot?

In today's world precise and unambiguous communication is extremely important.  I work with people who's first language is not English and the documents that those people generate every day.  Those unfortnuate people need my approval of those documents before they can start building things.  Imprecise and ambiguous communication costs them time when I cannot figure out what they intend, or money when what they write is not what they really meant.

When we have the opportunity for face-to-face meetings it is easier to determine that unclarity exits, but it is not possible to meet about every detail.

RE: Does it matter a jot?

Before anyone turns on the flame throwers....

unfortunate because they need my approval, not because English is not a first language.

See, clarity is important.

RE: Does it matter a jot?

I was already searching for the trigger...

RE: Does it matter a jot?

Funny, I understood perfectly why they were labeled unfortunate.

RE: Does it matter a jot?

(OP)
Some interesting comments, I agree of course that ambiguity is never a good thing, but feel a great deal depends on how you deal with it.

MintJulep appears to be in the driving seat as he places work overseas and seems quite happy to keep throwing things back if they are not entirely to his liking, which of course he is perfectly entitled to do.

TVP on the other hand is not, working “abroad” for a German company. I wonder do they insist that all communications are in German and just throw back everything that is not word and grammatically correct? Is it fair to assume that everyone that has to communicate with them can speak perfect German and has German keyboards? From the amount of time it seems to cost you and ultimately them maybe they should if they do not already.

Does it stop with foreign languages? For example if I saw “ I want a certain size tire on each corner of the car” What does that mean? I am aware that what we Brits call a tyre, Americans call a tire, so it is fairly obvious what it means, or is it?

In English English if there is such a thing, tire means to lose energy or absorb energy, so would a brake be more applicable than a tyre? Of course if I was really worried I could just contact the person and ask in a light hearted way, or I could throw it back at them because it is ambiguous.

Do people being pedantic cause more problems than ambiguous statements?

RE: Does it matter a jot?

You know, if your sentence hadn't included "tire" in it, I wouldn't have understood what you meant by "each corner of the car."  I can't say I've ever heard of corners being used in that fashion in regards to automobiles.

ah well...

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources