Technical Knowledge
Technical Knowledge
(OP)
What is the extent of technical knowledge that project managers need to possess. Can someone with 2-3 years of experience get a Project Management Certification and become a Project Manager. I know of people in the IT industry who with 2 yrs of experience, do in for a PM certification and get high paying jobs in the area of Project Management. My background is Civil Engineering, and I feel stuck. I feel as if I will have to spend years gaining technically advanced before I can get anywhere. Is this true?





RE: Technical Knowledge
I've witnessed project managers that are so fresh you start to wonder what he/she is managing.
You don't have to be the most technical individual to manage but at least have attained some level of technical competency before becoming a project manager.
RE: Technical Knowledge
I wish I were kidding.
Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
RE: Technical Knowledge
TTFN
RE: Technical Knowledge
They don't seem to have very happy lives, as they don't know enough about their own organisations, or their custoemrs, or the technical side of the project.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
RE: Technical Knowledge
Jokes apart, there's a level of technical knowledge that's required to perform the job - it should be enough to ensure that he/she is not taken for a ride by people like me.
HVAC68
RE: Technical Knowledge
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RE: Technical Knowledge
Several of the posts here have been accurate, and I gave you a star because your post is probably one of the most accurate summaries of the situation as I see it. And I have performed contract engineering in quite a number of engineering houses.
Your point about technical knowledge "just gets in the way" really hit home too. Several acquaintenances of mine who moved from engineering to project management positions (and had plenty of technical knowledge) were still overwhelmed by the bean counters over them and the pressure to perform "paper miracles". But to prove your point about the advantage of having the technical knowledge, at least in that situation they had the credibility and know-how to point out why the demanded "paper miracles" would not happen and make it stick. The technically inexperienced can't do that when called upon by higher management to explain project failures.
GregLocock:
Gave you a star too because I had never really considered the perspective before of the "keen young graduate".
I do recall several of those over the years trying to perform the task of managing a project for which they had neither the engineering background or the people skills to truly succeed. As I recall, most of them felt unfairly hard pressed and a few were already considering alternate career paths. It is always good when someone can give me the bigger picture, and you did.
RE: Technical Knowledge
You have just, unknowingly, described the management behaviour of our company. Amazing!
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If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!
RE: Technical Knowledge
Aerospace has traditionally been the exact opposite, where sharp engineers get promoted into the management chain. Then they die in their new positions, because they wind up cranking on the engineering design instead of pay attention to the budget and schedule.
TTFN
RE: Technical Knowledge
YOur job is to see the forest and plot a way through it. Others will take care of the trees and the beetles on the bark. IF you as project manager start spending too much time with the beetles on the bark the whole organization may wander around in circles.
RE: Technical Knowledge
What you say is very true, the PM is the leader. If as leader you get bogged down in the detail the team will suffer from lack of leadership. As with all things there is a balance, teh PM must have an understanding of the works being managed, otherwise he cannot lead the team successfully either. The technical knowlwedge is required for several reasons,
So (s)he can know which direction to go
So they know what is realistic and what is not
To be able to justify the results or missing targets to management or justify the course of action as debodine stated extremely well above.
Experienced designers will also not have as much respect for a non technical or inexperienced PM. A general statement, and likely to offend.
The skill of a good PM is to have the technical knowledge, use that to motivate the team and provide the lead, not get into the detail. If things go off the rails then the knowledgable PM will first have the knowledge that it has gon off the rails and second be able to assist the team to get back on track.
Mark Hutton
RE: Technical Knowledge
I was hired to run a mfg. plant, not something too many recent graduates are prepared to deal with. For a time, I felt nigh unethical for taking a job that I felt unprepared for. (engineering degree sans management courses)
I'd guess that the technical knowledge requirement probably depends on the type of project. It's not too smart to have Mr. Civil Greenie head-up work on a bridge project or watershed dam or something similar.
That said, the message I got from the leadership that hired me is that a young (inexperienced) person is less biased going into a management project; no bad habits to unlearn. Sometimes ignorance serves to simplify. Also a young (inexperienced) person cannot just "do it myself!" if a team member is lazy or inefficient. That manager will ride, err... motivate everyone, because he knows he couldn't get it done otherwise!
Also, having a a young (inexperienced) person at the head often creates a team dynamic immediately, as then the team members are almost certain to all share one thing in common at that point: utter disgust "that such a young, wet behind the ears, babyface is leading my project!" I'm really not joking there, I've seen it!
Probably the number one motivating factor to hire young or inexperienced is economics. It's cheaper to hire an unknown with potential (that may or may not fail) than to go after a veteran with 20+ years experience carrying a large overhead with him (that may or may not fail). Unwise logic? Maybe, but its reality in some low-margin industries!
If the team is put together properly, there will be several members who serve to oversee that all the calcs check out, all the "i"s are dotted, and that efficient and compliant design is achieved. That doesn't always fall soley on the guy at the top of the pile.
Very few of my posts to these fora are technical in nature- reason being, I have almost nothing to offer and much to learn. (and I do, from many of you people!) A heartfelt thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge.
RE: Technical Knowledge
So to answer the original question, I feel technical knowledge is very important for a PM. Moonstruck, I don't mean to thwart your career advancement but I think you should stick it out and learn more before "advancing" to project management. It's not fair to the guy's in the trenches when the PM doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
If you do go the PM route, do me a favor, please don't call the engineers "my engineers". Slavery was abolished years ago.
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HVAC68
RE: Technical Knowledge
A GOOD manager should know and understand his role and responsibilities and those of his subordinates. The PM pays the salaries of the engineers and the commodity is their technical expertise. This takes no engineering knowhow to understand. To try become the information "middleman" is arrogant and egotistical, on top of being rife with inefficiency and possibility of error in translation. In that situation, the engineer should be like the hired gun that he is. Send him to duke it out on the whiteboard.
TTFN
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HVAC68
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My experience in bigger firms however, I witnessed the opposite. In fact, many project managers have a reputation of knowing too little, mismanaging and as MikeHalloran stated "no evidence that even a high school education is required".
Although it appears to be the norm, it doesn't have to be.
RE: Technical Knowledge
This thread is a great place to know what most of us think of project management and extent of technical skills required to perform well in a role of project manager/leader.
What I am thinking about is, if one wishes to grow from a technical position into project management and likes, what should be an ideal course. Considering me to be a mechanical engineer with a MS degree and about 2 years of technical work experience, what will be my best bet to gradually grow into project management. Should I be taking courses in management, with the fact that I did not take courses in management in my MS, as my thesis advisor did not like that fact. Anyhow, your suggestions and opinions are always welcome.
Thankyou
Lone crusader
RE: Technical Knowledge
If this is your first job, it may be difficult to climb up the corporate ladder rapidly (they may treat you like a young engineer forever). Do not hesitate to open yourself for other opportunities. There just might be a position you want out there.
Good luck
RE: Technical Knowledge
If you’re working for me all I have to know is 1.) You’re competent (know what your doing) and 2.) A team player. A bad score on either will get you off the team.
When I have people working for me I let them do their thing and leave them alone. I expect their cooperation even when it means compromising what some may consider engineering judgment. An example might be sizing a transformer and service for a project. The electrical engineer may want to optimize the size of the transformer and service by waiting for all the load data (which may never be complete) before he decides on a 1500 or 2000 kva transformer. That’s good if you have all the time in the world. If the plant has a $100,000 a day revenue stream I might direct him to put in a 2,500 kva transformer and a 4,000 amp service. So it's overbuilt, The differential cost is less than half a days income. In the next 20 years the 2,000 kva might have saved him $400 a year, but two weeks extra income and a depreciation cash flow now are what gets the owner the bucks to pay your salary. It’s usually not a big deal as most plants change (it's good to have the extra power) . In reality lots of engineers spend to much time "polishing turds", someone has to bring them on track. Engineering is an art and science; sometime you gotta let the pretend science go. Sometimes you just have to do something even if it's not quite perfect.
Career wise for you it’s better to be on a project that finished two months early than it is to be on one that had the most efficient, best engineered electrical system designed in the last 40 years.
Did Hannibal know how to drive an elephant? or Churchill know how to fly a Spitfire, or General Grove know a Feynman Diagram from a prescription for sulfa drugs?.
RE: Technical Knowledge
Then, you need to get yourself a small IPT position, something big enough to get the right flavor, but not too big to overwhelm you.
Classes are OK, but I'm not convinced you need to have much there. Most of it is common sense, balancing the desires, deadlines and money from the customer with the laws of physics, human nature, reality, etc. Avoid lying, particularly to your immediate superiors, but make sure you always have your Pearl Harbor memos retrievable.
Calibration is critical. You need to know when any given engineer tells you that something will get done in a week, what the correction factor is for that individual.
TTFN
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RE: Technical Knowledge
As I experience more and more management teams, I am starting to wonder if this isn't some unwritten rule applied to all corporations.
RE: Technical Knowledge
At one of my previous jobs, we'd often wonder why our GM's appeared to be insane. But, with the appropriate viewpoint, everything they did was terribly rational and scary.
He was 5th GM in 2 yrs. He knew that he had about 4 months to look good or become the previous GM. If he succeeded, he'd get promoted elsewhere.
Therefore, new products were irrelevant, so they got canceled. Existing cash cows were too low in revenue, but a forced last-time buy would goose the bottomline. Problems in the existing product could be kicked down the road for the next GM, no matter what happened, so he kept shipping. All the extra employees were superfluous, so they got axed.
Obviously insane from a long-term employee's perspective, but brilliantly logical and coldly calculating as a GM.
TTFN
RE: Technical Knowledge
"if one wishes to grow from a technical position into project management and likes, what should be an ideal course. Considering me to be a mechanical engineer with a MS degree and about 2 years of technical work experience, what will be my best bet to gradually grow into project management."
I am in the same boat, I am a Civil Engineer with an MS in Construction Management about 3 yrs of experience and I want to climb the corporate ladder fast, and at this point, I am trying to find out whats the best way to do that. But, at the same time, I dont feel confident about the amount of technical knowledge I have as I have worked on different types of projects. No two projects I have worked on have been the same... so, there is limited knowledge from one project that I can apply to another project. I am stuck in a position where I do not have too many choices at this time and am just going where the job takes me.
But, I am thankful for the insightful (mostly :)) advice that I have recieved from all of you.
RE: Technical Knowledge
Good luck
HVAC68
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RE: Technical Knowledge
"Did Hannibal know how to drive an elephant? or Churchill know how to fly a Spitfire, or General Grove know a Feynman Diagram from a prescription for sulfa drugs?."
Bill Gates knows software....
Michael Dell knows PC's....
A manager with no technical expertise will only manage, to achieve greatness, you need a Leader. A Leader needs to be confident, have a vision of what the end-product will look like, and be able to steer all activities towards that vision.
Most of us become leaders through experience.
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Jules Verne envisioned space flight 80 yrs before we finally got to the moon.
TTFN
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What about Roddenberry? My cell phone looks and works ( maby better) than Captain Kirks commumicator.
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Just to chase a rabbit - Bill Gates never really invented anything. He is just a really clever/aggressive businessman.
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He had the vision of a small portable comm device with certain human factors engineering, while mobile phones, even the advanced one that Maxwell Smart used were still very cumbersome.
TTFN
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Exactly my point, you need visionaries to see what can be, people who can make it happen, nerds to do the details. Moodstone may be one of the people who make things happen. IF he can and wants to more power to him.
RE: Technical Knowledge
RE: Technical Knowledge
TTFN
RE: Technical Knowledge
Your post about oversizing a transformer was very informative. Unfortunately the clients that my employer currently work with would rather undersize them based upon preliminary data rather than oversize, as you conservatively and cost efficiently did. Guess who gets the liability for this undersizing? I would caution you on the use of the word "nerd" however. This term has been used quite often to describe engineers and anyone else of intelligence by the general public and by popular media. It has no place on an engineering forum and makes me see red. Other than this, thanks for your interesting viewpoints.
RE: Technical Knowledge
The amount of technical knowledge a manager needs varies with the type project. If it's a building the manager doesn't need to know any thing about electrical, if it's a submarine the manager better know a lot about hull design.
My point to Moonstone was if he wants to be a projet manager go for it. If according to some here he has to wait until he has more technical knowledge than anyone who works for him, he'll never make it. Projected managers are really people managers, their main function is to make it possible for other people to do their job.
RE: Technical Knowledge
I find myself in your camp and I think that moonstone should go for it if he/she feels that it fits him/her better than a design position would. You can always go back to a design role if things don't work out. I also recently met a person that used to be an electrical engineer. She currently works as a manager. She basically explained that she found out that she was a people person and had a flair for managing. Based upon my numerous interactions with her, I agree. It all comes down to what fits a person best.
RE: Technical Knowledge
I've been lead on several occasions and hated them all; but that's just me. There are others that thrive on it.
TTFN
RE: Technical Knowledge
Off lately I have come to realize that I am learning more about practical work and job scenarios from this forum than real life. My company being a small manufacturing firm.
Some times I really get frustrated as to the decisions made by the company and many a times without rationale (atleast to my limited experience and knowledge). I have been trying to move out of this company.. may be because its my first company and have not seen other companies so closely. Somehow things have not worked out with job change till now.
The real question to me right now is while making a career move (with ultimate aim of getting into management roles) what should be my next ideal job change considering
1) BSME
2) MSME (control system design experience and research)
3) 2 years of work experience (small company) in designing fuel cells and fuel cell testing equipment design experience. The experience also includes managing small parts of large projects involved in manufacturing.
4) CAD/CAE experience.
I have been applying for regular mechanical engineering jobs being advertised at job boards (but of no use till now). I am doing this because I think nobody would be interested to hire me for management roles without significant work experience. None of the contacts have really worked out, but am hopefull something will work out(USA is land of opportunity!!!).
I just can not understand, if I am simply passing time and getting into a rabbit hole as offlately I am realizing that I might get outdated for other mechanical engineering jobs.
I am sorry for posting such a message but as I said before I have started to believe more in the views expressed by you all than I have recieved elsewhere.
Thankyou once again for all your constructive suggestions (esp whyun, BJC, IRstuff, oijammu, Thane )
Regards
Lonecrusader
RE: Technical Knowledge
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.