False References...
False References...
2
keano (Civil/Environmental)
(OP)
Recently the company I work for has had to let go an employee taken on only six months ago due to their lack of cooperation and non team spirt participation.
On reviewing their C.V. details and references our H.R reported that the previous company had given this employee a glowing reference, all the things he was not to us.
My question is, Why those this happen? Do companies give references to troublesome just to get rid of them so that they can avoid possible lawsuits when they try to sack them.
Has your company ever done or even considered such action?
On reviewing their C.V. details and references our H.R reported that the previous company had given this employee a glowing reference, all the things he was not to us.
My question is, Why those this happen? Do companies give references to troublesome just to get rid of them so that they can avoid possible lawsuits when they try to sack them.
Has your company ever done or even considered such action?





RE: False References...
One thing to bear in mind is that some glowing references are written to be double entendres, so that someone reading in an upbeat vein will perceive it to be good, while someone with a carker outlook will see the negative connotations. In fact, there was a book written on how to do that about 20 yrs ago.
TTFN
RE: False References...
One thing when starting a new job that always worries me is how will I fit in? However good (or bad) anyone is they always work better in a certain style, some prefer a more informal set up others prefer a more regimented style and every now and then two personalities clash for no seemingly good reason. This is never good when one of them is your superior.
Perhaps the last employer did genuinely see this guy as a good worker, maybe one company expects you to work all weekend at very short notice and the other doesn’t, so one company sees the guy as disruptive and uncooperative where the other didn’t.
Just my thoughts.
RE: False References...
RE: False References...
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: False References...
But even if the candidates says it's OK, I take recommendations from current employers with a BIG grain of salt.
- will they tell me the person is great because they want to get rid of him?
- will they say he's not that great because they don't want to lose him?
Either way, I can see motives for not being totally forthright. Plus, most people tend, by nature, to say only good things about people. Heck, I had a discussion with an attorney years ago who said giving an employee an "average" on an evaluation was insulting. When I contored that his real performance was lower, she wanted to know what I felt about his past 30 years of gov't service, or about his military service, or.....even though he was being evaluated for the past 12 months only!
RE: False References...
What's the interview for then ? Why are his/her technical or other competencies checked in an interview if a mere reference from a previous employer is enough ?
The reference can probably be used to ensure that the candidate is not a cheat/thief or he has not done any unlawful/unethical activities.
HVAC68
RE: False References...
Unfortunately, the downside is that you get some of the knuckleheads making it through the wicket.
TTFN
RE: False References...
I agree with the other post that the HR group does not want you to contact the previous employer. However, this is where professional societies can be good. When you go to the meeting and casually inquire a friend and fellow manager about someone over coctails you may find the real deal. This sort of networking would be unlikely to find its way onto any HR forms.
John
RE: False References...
TTFN
RE: False References...
RE: False References...
We once had a young engineer maybe not that bad technically, but a real disaster socially (arrogant). His contract was going to be renewed, he knew it and was prospecting other firms.
He asked his manager if he could reference (boss) his name.
Manager told him yes, but don't expect nominations for person of the year. Bottom line you can tell that you worked under supervision of the well known mister XYZ, but don't let HR-freaks call for details.
The engineer tried a former company were Mr XYZ worked about 20 years and they did not take him.
He tried to sue Mr. XYZ (no luck).
If the HR department is in control of who gets in, you will receive "sh.."
Points to look at:
Is it a job-hopper? (be aware)
Long working history ,and can not describe what he/she has done, aside receiving a paycheck? (be aware)
Sequence of education, working history, are there unexplained missing gaps? (be double aware)
Maybe the guy falsificated certificates, letters etc, I have seen this before. I also have received letters that I could obtain a PhD in whatever area based on my life experience.
RE: False References...
On the otherhand, friends at the old company can give the employee personal but not proffesional refferences.
RE: False References...
I went through this a while back (burned a good bridge by telling them what I thought of the company president (engineering manager) through their written exit interview process). He got mad and slammed me for a reference a few months later. I hired a third party to perform a reference check. Low and behold the president of the company was bashing me bad (even though job reviews etc were excellent and even had a promotion to manager in this time). I called them and gave them a good scare with my report from the third party. I believe they learned their lesson (no I decided not to sue even though it was a pretty clear case - lawyers words). I also learned not to burn bridges and if you are going too, get a written letter of reference first to avoid the headache. Even if your not, I still get one because you never know what is being said. At least the written reference is proof of your performance when you left the job.
RE: False References...
HR also came up with the idea of exit interviews, I find it a waste of time. In my opinion, if in a place the people turnover, absenteism is high, it doesn't take a genius to discover that something is wrong. They receive job reviews and appraisals from everyone in the company.
That is B.S.
Most likely he will be interviewed also by his future (bosses), who will sit with the headache, if the boss is afraid to ask, he gets what he deserves.
We are talking about new employees, not about someone who is already there and glued on his chair.
RE: False References...
I don’t know if I agree with the contention that giving a “neutral reference” on a bad employee is some kind of violation of an ethical compact amongst employers. Lots of folks fit well and work well in some places and not in others. A change in employer may be all that is needed to turn a so-called bad employee around; it’s called LEADERSHIP.
Techmaximus
RE: False References...
"Aamodt" sounds like a corporate lawyer. The corporate world has a long way to go before they can talk about ethics again.
RE: False References...
What is our world coming to? This sort of mirrors some of the comments in another thread about our "Blame Culture" (ref. thread731-122159.) Ethics will not allow me to tell you anything other than how I feel. I guess that I am very old fashioned.
- I tell the truth.
- I open doors for women.
- I say yes sir and no sir.
- I say yes ma’am and no ma’am
- I accept the results of my mistakes
As far as I am concerned, these types of ideals are being lost. The reference problem is just a symptom of a very sick culture. I am beginning to think that I belong in a museum.Chris
RE: False References...
Hg
Eng-Tips guidelines: FAQ731-376
RE: False References...
Dismissed? On what grounds? It is hard for a Brit to see any legitimate reason why, although I guess it could be written into contract by some devious HR type - ok, so that could be any of them - with a hidden agenda. Outside of that it is hard to see any grounds for dismissal.
If you need an English offshoot for your museum, I guess I'll be a good exhibit. I'm old fashioned too, but I look on it as something to be proud of. My father and grandfather were old fashioned, and I admire them both enormously.
----------------------------------
If we learn from our mistakes,
I'm getting a great education!
RE: False References...
The dismissal part is written into company policy. Of course, some HR type wrote this in due to a fear of lawsuits.
ScottyUK,
I am proud of who I am. I am just concerned that we are becoming a very small minority. That is the sad part.
Chris
RE: False References...
As my supervisor put it "If these guys are his friends we don't want to talk with his enemies.