Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Work ethic comparasions among generations:
(OP)
I am younger, but have the opporuntity to work with much older, well-seasoned coworkers.
I work in a management position above them, and I rely on them to daily work very hard and long to accomplish company goals and fill orders.
I would like to think that I have a good relationship with them, as good as managment can expect with his employees. I make it point to regularly "work in the trenches" with them. I do it to refresh my memory on what realistic expectations of work from them are.
I often hear comments about how people from my generation do not know hard work, that a life running computers and leisurely tasks is all we have known. I laugh it off most times, and just attribute that attitude to a bad case of "grump old men syndrome"... but it still grinds on me.
(Maybe I'm too closely correlating "hard work" with "physical work"...)
Recently, after pondering these comments more closely, I look to US history and life during industrial revolution, agrarian society, and the Great Depression, and I think maybe these guys hold an element of truth to what they are saying. Granted, these guys are all from an age post war, but they still remember hard living as a way of life.
I pose the question to the group: Do young people these day show the same hunger for hard work that people from your generation show? Do older people have an aversion to laziness that my generation lacks? I'm curious to see what posters in other countries observe as well.
Thanks in advance.





RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Clearly, some things are quite different, i.e., I have zero idea how families coped with 6 or more children; I can barely manage two.
The people who live through the Great Depression still had it easy relative to those that migrated westward through the Plains territories and Indian wars, etc. Living in a mud brick or wood cabin on the Plains with nary a soul for hundreds of miles around, other than potentially hostile Indians, was a unique hardship that dwarfs even what happened during the Dust Bowl years.
And before that, the immigrants that came across, intentionally or otherwise, under brutal conditions aboard slave ships or steerage also had absurdly rough lives.
But, I don't think that any fundamental, e.g., evolution of the laziness gene, has occurred with each generation. Rather, it's just that each previous generation has at least partially succeeded in making the lives of their offspring better. When faced with similar hardships, e.g., Gulf Wars I and II, bravery, doggedness and tenacity are always revealed.
TTFN
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I'd have to answer yes your question, there is no comparason between the work ethics of to days graduates aganist previous generations.
I'm twenty years out of university and I can see the differance.Today they want the best paid jobs with out realy putting in the effort, you can see it in there choice of careers Stock Brokers, Accountants, Lawyers Etc..
no one wants to be engineers or sceintist anymore, and when your telling them there doing something wrong man do you get some grief.
Fmara.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I do think that work ethics are changing. My parents worked hard every day they were expected to. The first sick day my mother took was when she went into the hospital with cancer. I appreciate what they did, but as a result, they inadvertantly instilled in me the concept of "quality of life".
I do not consider myself lazy or a slacker, but if I am sick, I will stay home or go to the doctor. When salaried, I will not continually put in excessive hours "to get the job done", because there is ALWAYS something hot that needs to be done.
Life is short. Do what you do to the best of your ability, give 110%, and go home with a clear conscience. Working at something that you have a passion for is a good key to happiness.
Ask yourself "am I living to work or working to live?"
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
The subject of "work ethic," per se, needs to be divorced from the question of renumeration. My eleven-yr old puts in 11 hr days, between school and homework. That's MY expectation and his work ethic complies.
Renumeration is a reflection of the changes that occurred over the last 40 yrs in big industry. When unions held sway, you got lifetime employment, good benefits, etc. You can no longer expect being treated like "family," instead, you're most definitely treated as interchangeable cogs. If that's the case, then there little incentive to be reasonable about renumeration.
TTFN
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
The four generations of trainees - as we define them1 - cover nearly 80 birth years from 1922 to 1999: They are the Veterans, 1922-1943; the Baby Boomers, 1943-1960; the Generation Xers, 1960-1980; and the Nexters, born after 1980.
The Veterans (1922-1943) came of age before and during the Great Depression and World War II. They are the classic "keepers of the Grail" and an irreplaceable repository of lore and wisdom, practical wiliness, and more than a few critical extra-organizational contacts, and they are very prone to digressions about "The Good Old Days."
The Baby Boomers (1943-1960), the post-war babies, are graying, and they’d really rather not be seen as the "problem" in the workplace - though they frequently are. After all, they’ve been defining everyone else as "the problem" since "Don’t trust anyone over 30." They invented "Thank God, it’s Monday!" and the 60-hour work week. Boomers are passionately concerned about participation and spirit in the workplace, about bringing heart and humanity to the office, and about creating a fair and level playing field for all. And they hold way too many pointless meetings for the average GenXer’s taste. GenXers at the chapter level see them as too wedded to ceremony and ritual, and too controlling.
The Xers (1960-1980) grew up in the post-’60s era of Watergate, latchkey kids, and the energy crisis. Their need for feedback and flexibility, coupled with their hatred of close supervision, is but one of the many conundrums they present employers. At the same time, they are personally adept and comfortable with change — after all, they have changed cities, homes, and parents all their lives. They are, indeed, the new change masters. And they are much more inclined to keep their own counsel than are their Boomer predecessors. Xers are very clear about the meaning of the word "balance" in their lives: Work is work. And they work to live, not live to work. "It’s just a job" is an oft-heard mantra for Xers. Their loyalties revolve around themselves and their friends and families, not their jobs and not your association.
The Nexters (1980+). They may be the smartest, cleverest, most-wanted small humans to have walked the face of the planet. Their moms and dads see themselves as devoted parents sacrificing to bring this new generation to adulthood. Think soccer moms and Little League dads. They’re an optimistic bunch who express doubt about the wisdom of traditional racial and sexual categorizing, and they have Internet pen pals in Asia whom they can, and do, contact at any hour of the day or night. The ones now in the workforce - think fast-food, movie theaters, grocery store carryout, yard work, babysitting, Web-page building, and internships - seem destined to become what historians Bill Strauss and Neil Howe, authors of Millennials Rising (Vintage Books, 2000), call "good scouts." They will be a very welcome addition to any association currently struggling with Boomer/Xers conflicts. But we are aware that they are coming with their own agenda.
And it ends with this:
Warning! Overgeneralizations can occur!
A note of caution: Generational diversity, like gender, racial and ability diversity, is a factor to consider in managing and positioning your organization but is not the whole show. Humans share a lot of similarities and are, if anything, adaptable. You certainly can ignore those differences and follow your tried-and-true formulas and succeed. We believe, however, that acknowledging and accommodating subtle individual differences — whatever their origin — will make your association work better for you and your members.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. And scratch where it itches.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Thank God I'm an Xer
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Older generations at least had retirement and health insurance, so that was a tremendous worry off their minds. Another thing, when companies had plenty of engineers and support staff there was less need to work long hours unless one really wanted to.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
www.SlideRuleEra.net
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Do people IN GENERAL expect more from society and/or the government today than people did two generations ago? (think about medical coverage, education, housing, food, retirement, etc, etc, etc).
My response is YES, hence IN GENERAL, people today do not have the same work ethic as past generations.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
However, I would say that the older generation(s) are the ones relying most on entitlements:
1. Have you tried revising Social Security, lately?
Again, I do see you point. When your "Golden Parachute" is as easy as signing up for the dole rather than subsiding off whatever your own effort can provide, there is bound to be some kind of difference to be measured in work ethic.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
What do you mean by "revising Social Security".
If this is your attitude to the old now, I pitty you when you get old with the younger generations less caring than your generation.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
In some demographics I am a boomer and in others I am an X'er. My work ethic was instilled and distilled in me by my parents and likely my grandparents as well. Both pointed out the incredible value that getting an education could bring. Perhaps that is more of the difference, the movement from the physical labor to the intellectual. Having experienced both I must say that I prefer the "ease" of intellectual work. That said, it is still gratifying to get my hands dirty on occasion and Rhodie, I think you do well to maintain that connection. You may hear some grumbling about today's kid, but likely you have the respect of those you manage.
As for Social Security or other similar retirement benefits, the governments are so addicted to money that I would not recommend anyone to rely on it being there. I certainly am not planning my retirement around it. I am becoming unsure about company retirement plans as well. Several people I know have lost much of their retirement value by having too great a percentage tied to one place. The transition to a global economy is making it necessary to individually plan for your own future. Loss of security is mighty unsettling as you get older.
Regards,
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
In contrast, it seems the majority of Xers/Nexters attend college. There, they were given assignments and deadlines, with no restraints as to when the work was to be completed as long as the deadlines were met. This instilled a more flexible view of work and work hours. Most Xers/Nexters that have expressed an opinion agree that a rigid 8-5 work schedule is outdated, and that nobody should care when they do the work, as long as it gets done. These people could also afford this type of attitude, as they grew up in relatively prosperous times. The average Xer/Nexter has had more leisure time than any previous generation, and had never really known hardship. Not many of the Veterans felt they were above certain kinds of work.
The Boomers likely took many of their cues from their parents, but I think they were also more likely to attend college. They were also influenced by the social changes that were happening during their formative years. One common view was "I'll do my thing, you do your thing." It's more of a "Me" attitude. I think that's why this generation seems much more likely to have midlife crisis (sports cars and trophy wives) manifestations than any of their predecessors.
I think there are differences in the work ethics of the different generations, but my take is that it stems from societal influences during the young-adult years. Some generations were required to work differently and possibly harder than others. The society of the Veterans was also more class-stratified. Success meant working hard and improving their circumstances. Today's society tries to promote the idea that nobody is any better than anyone else. I think this idea has led to a general decline an ethic of hard work among younger workers, and the prevalence of the "I deserve it" attitude.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
keano:
Please don't misunderstand my point. I mean absolutely no disrespect nor mean to express a lack of appreciation for older people. I would say that I honor my elders in a most sincere manner.
The point was that perhaps younger people rely on government handouts more than older people. My point was that Social Security is a lifeline to many older people, just as unemployement or welfare is to young people.
No disrespect intended.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
The older generation that I see does not have a noble work ethic. The older generation should be call the generation of greed and unfounded self righteousness.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Second candidate: BSEE from a state university, 3.2 GPA, worked his way through college at real jobs. May have joined the military and went to school on the GI bill, grew up in a lower or middle class neighborhood.
The details may vary but the major difference is one guy had it handed to him the other went out and got it. I know who I would hire.
Destroying a work ethic is easy. We have all heard of corporations where engineers etc. are laid off in droves, the salary and benefits of whoever is left is cut, the company stock in the pension plan goes in the tank, and while all that is going on the CEO is give a multi-million dollar bonus and enough stock options to buy a small third world country. Corporate management can and does create "Wallys" by the thousands.
IRstuff.
"It used to be that you went to college, got a job with a big corporation, worked 40 years and retired. Nowadays you can be laid off anytime. The future ain't what it used to be."
Paraphrased from yogi Berra
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
However, if anyone thinks that living on an average benefit of $955/month is a great deal, they're welcome to it. That's only slightly better than the poverty level.
If you look at the situation historically, you can see that the very reason that SSA was created was precisely because people spent all their money BEFORE retirement, even in the "good ole days."
This is NOT a question of counting on SSA, but a reality of living beyond one's means. If you look at the primary cause of that, I suggest you look in your mailbox. I get an average of 2 creditcard offers A DAY!
Easy credit --> debts --> no savings --> poverty level retirement
TTFN
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
What is the difference? This is it:
1. The guy who doesn't work long hours has time to enjoy life.
2. The guy who doesn't work long hours is viewed as the slacker by the company.
"It is not what you do between 8 and 5. It is what you do before 8 and after 5."
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Younger people are often energetic and enthusiastic. This add lots to the work place. Often older people are more knowlegeble except for recent technologies. Their diverse experience and previous mistakes make the older worker valuable. They may also be jaded by their experience. A good work place has a mix of both.
John
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I have been laid off several times in my 25 year career, due to work downturns or poor company finances, and I am still inflexible when it comes to unpaid overtime. I don't mind putting in extra unpaid hours occasionally, but it seems that when you do, it is expected of you always. Perhaps this is a poor work ethic on my part, but I still enjoy my work and am proud of the results I produce.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
It a no brainier, the work ethic of the older generation is poor. Now the question resides whether the current work force, including myself, is just as culpable by looking for “something for nothing.”
When it is all said and done, perhaps the best test regarding the work ethics of a generation is whether they leave a better life for next generation. If you believe you life will be better than that of the previous generation, you can say the previous generation had an admirable work ethic. If not, shame on previous generation.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Work ethic is a learned trait. IF you go back to pioneer days, the depression and on to modern times people have to work less and less to get by. In the 1950s it was easy to find someone who had to have done some serious work to live. Now days lots of people survive without doing much at all.
So much for cut and paste. MAby we need a thread on engineers are very detail oriented vs those of us who do things fast.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
It’s easier for the younger generation to have less drive than previous generations. There are so many ‘welfare baskets’ available people are quite simply put not made to be responsible for their action or inaction; Hence, social security to name a single one.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I would say per work day, I do less hard engineering than a peer engineer did 50 years ago. However, I would say that engineers now spend a great deal more time doing overhead tasks (often on their own time), deflecting office politics, and flat-out scrambling to keep employed and current in a competitive company/market. I would say the average engineer today may not produce as much engineering output as someone 50 years ago, but does have to put up with a lot more non-engineering issues, which are just as difficult and taxing as traditional engineering issues.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Where I shop for grocerys there are a half dozen or so people over retirement age working. There also drawing social security. They had what was supposed to be a good retirement plan but the crooks at Enron pretty much stole it.
Pretty dumb of them not to see it comming.
I alway figured I'd get some of what I put in back and the rest of it would go to people like these.
It's the other part of my tax money I have a hard time with, especially the part of it that should be putting Ken Lay in jail.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
It's also a question of changing with times. The "oldies" (I will be one soon !!!) worked and lived based on what was required at that point of time. Today we live based on today's needs which may not be liked by the next generation.
HVAC68
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I'm enjoying this discussion y'all are carrying on. As a "Nexter" (is that the best name for my generation that exists?) I am just starting out in the workforce. I still think it is nigh impossible to precisely gauge the work output of workers across generations. You would have to juggle all the relative details in every given project - unfeasible I think. To try and extract "work ethic" solely from results produced does not seem possible.
I think one could make broad generalizations about the age and relative enthusiasm of a worker, but I don't feel such generalizations would be worth too much.
Every decent person acts as they think best - in work and play. Hard or "soft" workers do not come only from certain age groups.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
John
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Without trying to sound prejudice how many all night stores or the like are manned by white middle classed people?
You seldom get the best hunters where the prey is abundant.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
First, to CRG. Ever heard of “bad karma”? I hope you are as successful as you seem to think you’re going to be and retire very confortably. There are millions out there who have worked all their lives earning just enough to get by who really know the meaning of “fiscal restraint” and must rely on social benefits like old age pension. This is the whole idea of social programs albeit the abuse of same always ensues. You always here about the bad ones, kiddo.
To Jabberwocky, I like your outlook on this subject and considering you are probably the youngest who has put his two cents in, very well said.
Rhodie, while I may be mistaken, sounds to me, is in the UK where a rant about social security benefits and some recipients is very well founded. I left there almost 40 years ago when I got fed up with leaving with my father for work every morning while the guy next door was sleeping off the drunk from the night before. Yes, he lived next door, similar house (flat) and enjoyed everything in life that we had. Generally in North America, if you choose to live on social security benefits, you get to live in what and amongst those you deserve. Heaven forbid that they might be asked to sweep the streets in return. Unfortunately, the working poor have to endure the same accomodations and fine neighbours also.
Work ethic linked to generation? Rubbish. I am a boomer, circa 1946 and have seen all kinds since my first job in 1962. Generalization is slapping paint on with a broad brush.
My rant for today.
p.s a star for jabberwocky!
Haggis
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
When I hire, I explore that individuals background, and learned skills. Are they troubleshooters or construction. There are needs for both, but one does need to know.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I would say that in general, young people are lazier because they can be. There is no need to go milk the cow, feed the chickens, or walk 10 miles to school in the snow (with no shoes). However, some are just plain lazy. Some of the old timers are just as lazy.
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I see some people (e.g., vonbad, April 5) griping about "the younger generation" defined as social security recipients. I hadn't realized we had so many centenarians on this forum.
I'm also not entirely sure what the point is. Do different generations have different standards for how much work they should put in in a day? Sure. Buzzp put it very well just above, as did everyone in this thread who mentioned how corporate treatment of employees has a lot to do with how employees treat the employer in return. And having options allows one not to be so desperate as to do absolutely anything an employer wants (like the old company towns--let's not pretend that employers were always benevolent until recent years).
What's the applicability of this conversation? Whether one might choose to hire the older or younger of two equal candidates?
Hg
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RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
In that regard, I don't think there is a lot of difference in generations. A lot of young people work long hours; perhaps they feel in will benefit them in the future. Old timers also work long hours. Some are workaholics and some do it out of fear. (I have seen both young and old work long hours out of fear and the company treated them quite badly in turn, so I don't think corporate ethics is a factor.)
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
If somebody is working regularly long hours, then it's probably due to one or more of these
(a) He/She is inefficient.
(b) Understaffed organisation.
(c) Working long hours or maybe sitting long hours, since his/her boss also sits long hours!!!
(c) He/She is a workaholic.
(d) He/She fears to go home !!!
HVAC68
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
Likewise, when I was younger, I put in massive amounts of overtime, missed portions of my older son's growing up. Now, I know better.
Perhaps, this is the major reason why younger generations are not so keen to put in the work, because, at the end of the day, on your deathbed, you will not be regretting not putting more hours into work, but you will regret not putting more hours into your life and family.
So, not laziness, but an understanding that balance MUST be achieved between work and home, otherwise, Jack will indeed be a dull boy.
TTFN
RE: Work ethic comparasions among generations:
I don't know whether I am young or old(at 32), I have been annoyed by some older folks who insist about age old things that worked through out their active lives.
Now a days, colleagues are not as friendly as they used to be with my earlier generations. That way I am doing more mental hard work than older people.