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UK or The UK?
4

UK or The UK?

UK or The UK?

(OP)
Is "UK" or "the UK" more correct?

If "Brits" are from Britain, and Irish are from Ireland, what is someone from Northern Ireland?  I would say Irish, but I don't want to offend anyone.  Do the Welsh take exception to being thrown in together with the Anglo-Saxons by being called British?  With all the immigration from everywhere else these days, does anyone really care?  Has anyone ever played around with terms like "Ukans" or "Ukes" or "Ukies"?

I hope I can be forgiven some ignorance.  In the US, especially in the south, we make a strong distinction between Yankees and Southerners.  However, although I am from the southern US, I would not be offended to be called a Yank by a Brit.

Cheers,
William

RE: UK or The UK?

How 'bout just "Americans" and "Europeans"?
I work with some Brits and Irish. They tell me to make it simple for us "Americans", just call them Irish or English/British.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP1.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

RE: UK or The UK?

(OP)
I suppose "Europeans" has some merit.  After all, isn't the EC an attempt to throw them all into the same pot, anyway?

Regards,
William

RE: UK or The UK?

seems that way

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP1.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

RE: UK or The UK?

MOST PEOPLE I KNOW FROM THE UK WOULD BE OFFENDED(AT LEAST IN JEST) TO BE CALLED EUROPEAN. THEY DON'T REALLY VIEW THEMSELVES AS PART OF EUROPE.  
I ALWAYS SAW THAT AS STRANGE. OF COURSE MY BOSS IS ITALIAN AND HE DOES NOT THINK THAT THE UK IS PART OF EUROPE EITHER!! MUST BE SIMILIAR TO THE WHOLE YANKEE/SOUTHERNER THING!

MAYBE I WILL SE SOME DISAGREEMENT WITH THAT HERE.

A CONNECTICUT YANKEE

RE: UK or The UK?

The UK stands for "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".  
Great Britain includes England, Scotland and Wales.  Therefore anyone from England, Scotland or Wales can legitimately be called British.  Many people from Scotland or Wales, would prefer simply to be known as Scottish or Welsh respectively.  Increasingly this is becoming true for the English as well.  
Someone from Ireland should be called Irish, regardless of whether they are from the North or South.
I have never heard of a UKer or any such other expression.  The closest terms I can think of are the rather cumbersome "Resident of the UK" or "UK citizen".
As previous replies note, I would treat the description of UK citizens as "European", with some caution.  Some, like myself, are proud to be European, but there are some people in the UK who consider Europe to be confined to the continental mainland, and the British Isles as somewhat separate.

RE: UK or The UK?

It is annoying when Europeans refer to Canadians as "Americans." They mean "from the Americas," but to Canadians it means from the United States of America. A Brazilian would likekwise be call American. I've only heard this a few times, but I would still prefer people to refer to my country, not region. Picky, eh?

RE: UK or The UK?

(OP)
As though we are one big happy family over in our respective hemispheres.  Not that we don't like each other, either, but we would rather just do our own thing in our own little world.

Two travelers on an interplanetary space flight struck up a conversation.  "Oh, you're from Earth!" asked one, "Do you know...?"

Regards,
William

RE: UK or The UK?

2
Pretty much agree with Trevor P, whilst no one I know would describe themselves as UK citizens or European, no one would be offended either, if asked I would say I am English, but that is not what it says on my passport!!!!  One little tip never ask a Welsh man what part of England that is in.

The European thing is great, no other country I know of has the ability to go with change in such a halfhearted way as the British, we really do take to change like an elephant takes to roller skates.

About the best example of this is the SI. For many years now we have been “metric” but ask anyone how tall they are and they will tell you in feet and inches, the same applies to clothes, waist and chest sizes are all in inches. Ask most people their weight and they will tell you in stones and pounds, but virtually everyone works in metres.

It does get better ask some the temperature and if it is cold they will tell you in centigrade, but if it is hot the will tell you in Fahrenheit, but mostly they will just moan about it raining.

The government of course helps, for example it is illegal to sell anything by weight in anything other than KG, s, and all liquids must be sold in litres, except of course for milk and beer which are both sold by the pint, however petrol must be sold by the litre as gallons are illegal.

This does make fuel consumption a bit strange, as it should be KM/litre however as all distances are still measured in miles this doesn’t really work, so by law all car companies have to quote fuel consumption as MPG, despite the fact that it is impossible and illegal to buy a gallon of petrol.

So are the English/ UK European of course we are but some of our other European cousins do not think we take it that seriously, however this is not true I know of at least three people that now drink coffee.

I will not even get started on the Euro, right I’m off for a nice hot cup of tea and to watch a game of cricket, how much more European can you get?

RE: UK or The UK?

(OP)
ajack1,

Fascinating; thanks for the laugh.

William

RE: UK or The UK?

Oddly enough, sometimes one will hear NI Protestants referring to "the Irish" in the 3rd person (referring to the Republic of Ireland and NI Catholics).  That very same person would call themselves Irish if you asked.  NI Protestants sometimes have a bit of an identity crisis.

As another example (and at the risk of RF, though I hope this is veiled enough), I read a book by a NI Protestant in which the Protestant protagonist has an encounter with a Catholic woman, and described it as "Once again, England enters Ireland".  A bit risqué for this forum, but illustrates the mixed identity of the NI denizens.

On the American side, no one outside the US wants to be called American, but yet I've heard objections (don't remember exactly from who) that the US doesn't hold a monopoly on being American.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: UK or The UK?

HgTX,

I have heard the "monopoly" comment from a Canadian citizen.

Regards,

Cory

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: UK or The UK?

The inhabitants of those two lovely islands between north sea and Atlantic cause all the confusion themselves because... if it's really only two countries, why are there 5 national football teams???

RE: UK or The UK?

And is there a politically and geographically correct name for that archipelago?  "British Isles" really isn't a good way to describe something that includes Ireland.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: UK or The UK?

And "America" is a poor way of describing a fairly small (USA size) portion of the Americas.

Since Paul Harvey started saying "Us US" mabe it's "Uk UK."

RE: UK or The UK?

Maybe that will help.
TWI in Great Abbington (Cambridge) stands for The Welding Institute.

Putting Human Factor Back in Engineering

RE: UK or The UK?

William,

You bring up an interesting topic.  England is not part of Europe their is a 26 mile stretch of water that defines where England ends and Europe starts.

The way I see it you can blame the monarchy for all this confusion.  Here is the break down of countries The United Kingdom, consisting of Great Britain (England, Wales, and Scotland) and Northern Ireland, is twice the size of New York State.  So there is a big difference between Great Britain and The United Kingdom and it lies in the hatred between the British and Irish government.  This is maybe the longest feud, war, or hatred in the history of civilization.  I’m not a historian or expert on this subject, I just lived through the bombings in London during the 1970s.  A Similarity to the many civil rights struggles that have happened in this great country we call America. Check out the links below:

http://www.clannada.org/docs/histcon.html

http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/en-us/dept_63.html

The origins of "Yankee" have been fiercely debated throughout the history of the Republic, and to this day the Oxford English Dictionary says the source of the word is "unascertained." Perhaps the most widely accepted explanation was advanced by H.L. Mencken, the well-known newsman-scholar (and don't tell me that isn't an unusual combination), who argued that Yankee derives from the expression Jan Kaas, literally "John Cheese." This supposedly was a derogatory nickname bestowed on the Dutch by the Germans and the Flemish in the 1600s. (Wisconsin cheeseheads can undoubtedly relate.)

The English later applied the term to Dutch pirates, and later still Dutch settlers in New York applied it to English settlers in Connecticut, who were known for their piratical trading practices. During the French and Indian War the British general James Wolfe took to referring derisively to the native New Englanders in his army as Yankees, and the term was widely popularized during the Revolutionary War by the song "Yankee Doodle." By the war's end, of course, the colonists had perversely adopted the term as their own. Southerners used Yankee pejoratively to describe Northerners during the Civil War, but found themselves, along with all other Americans, called thus by the English during world wars I and II. (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_260.html)

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Do you trust your intuition or go with the flow?

RE: UK or The UK?

Quote (Heckler):

England is not part of Europe their is a 26 mile stretch of water that defines where England ends and Europe starts.
So presumably Hawaii is not a part of the USA then?

RE: UK or The UK?

Heckler: Longest feud in history? Read the Bible.

RE: UK or The UK?

TrevorP,

Apparently, neither is Alaska.

RE: UK or The UK?

==> not a part of the USA then?
==> Apparently, neither is Alaska.

Oh they are part of the USA.  They're just not part of North America (anymore).  

If Great Britain, or the UK, are not part of Europe, then which continent are they a part of?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

RE: UK or The UK?

SacreBlue,

Please reread my post: "This is maybe the longest feud, war, or hatred in the history of civilization"  Yes, I've very familiar with the religious wars as stated in the Bible that's why I used the word maybe.

TrevorP,

Not to many Americans are up on the geography but thanks for stating the obvious.  Much appreciated!

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Do you trust your intuition or go with the flow?

RE: UK or The UK?

The Northern European Continent

Best Regards,

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SW2005 SP 2.0 & Pro/E 2001
Dell Precision 370
P4 3.6 GHz, 1GB RAM
XP Pro SP2.0
NIVIDA Quadro FX 1400
      o
  _`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

Do you trust your intuition or go with the flow?

RE: UK or The UK?



I would not go as far as to say there is hatred anymore between England and Ireland, more a Nice cordial relationship exist.
I personaly do not hate the English, but i do like to see there football team fumble

RE: UK or The UK?

You must be a happy man then Roadbridge

RE: UK or The UK?



But i do admire David Beckham...

RE: UK or The UK?

Anybody from the island of Ireland can be called Irish.
Anybody from the island of Great Britain can be called British.

Politically the two islands are divided up into England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland.

The two islands together can be referrd to as the British Isles though for political reasons they generally aren't.

The two islands are part of Europe, since Europe is defined by the continental shelf upon which it rests. The edge of the continental shelf is a few hundred miles off the west coast of  Ireland.

There are no citizens of the UK, only subjects of the Queen as there is no constitution. Sometimes people from the North are called Northern Irish.

RE: UK or The UK?

Bandraoi, the British Isles is far more than two islands there are in fact many.

Just off Scotland are many isles with the main three groups being the Shetland, the Outer Hebrides and the Orkney, off of England there are a group called the Scilly isles (very amusing to school children, pronounced the Silly isles) the isle of Man, the isle of Wight and a few other very small isles, off of Ireland again there are many isles with probably Aran being the biggest and best known. The channel isles are a bit more of a grey area.

I would also suggest you do not tell any Unionists in Northern Ireland that they are not British.

Of course all of these are in Europe.

RE: UK or The UK?

I'm Irish,

many of the unionists in Northern Ireland are perfectly willing to call themselves Irish, they are from the island of Ireland. They are proud to be Irish people loyal to the crown.

On a technicality they can be British and Irish as they're from the British Isles but that's a really hot political potato to start going into.

I'm well aware of the minor outlying islands, there are thousands of them around the coast of Ireland, and of course Britain. Since most of them are assigned to either Britain or Ireland I was including them in my description (at least in my own head)

RE: UK or The UK?

Bandraoi--since when is a written constitution required for citizenship?  One votes there, one carries a passport, one is entitled to all the legal protections of citizenship.  Israel also has no single-document written constitution.  Both countries have plenty of statutes and case law defining the rights of their citizens.

Is there a politically correct name for that archipelago off the coast of Europe there?

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines:  FAQ731-376

RE: UK or The UK?

If you consider "British Isles" to be politically incorrect, then I suppose you would have to resort to "The United Kingdom, The Republic of Island, The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands", which I think covers everything.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: UK or The UK?

In the UK the term Subject is used not citizen, look at a passport. All the laws also refer to subjects not citizens.

RE: UK or The UK?

God save the Queen!

RE: UK or The UK?

The British Isles is a geographical, not geopolitical description.

Hence Ireland is part of the British Isles geographically but geopolitically we say "Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

While we are at it, let's sort out the "Great" in Great Britain.
This is because Britain was once comprised of the British Isles and parts of Northern France. The big island bit is "Great Britain".

I have to say I a not sure how many "Brits" would be convinced by that continental shelf argument that they are actually Europeans. This has been something of a question ever since the days when Calais was lost to GB.

PS why do so Canadians get upset when you ask them which part of America they come from? (the enquiry usually based, I must admit, on their accents)

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

RE: UK or The UK?

a brit can be english, welsh, or scot, but not irish

a scot, welsh, or irish would never be pleased to be called english

northern ireland is part of great britian, therefore (tho' they don't sound like it, and probably don't like it much) they'r brit

"limie" works well for me !

"bruce"

RE: UK or The UK?

Why do British people get upset when you ask if they are Australian?

RE: UK or The UK?

'cause they aren't ...

and wish they were ?

RE: UK or The UK?

Because they're usually asked by ignorant Americans that can't tell the difference between the two accents.

RE: UK or The UK?

rb1957,

Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain. See earlier posts.

M

--
Dr Michael F Platten

RE: UK or The UK?

Interesting read, but I do have one mentionable...

In my area of the country (USA), if you mention 'UK' most people assume you are speaking about the University of Kentucky.  References to Great Britain are usually given as Brits, England, etc.

Now, when I go to conferences or professional meetings, the mention of 'UK' will - for the most part - refer to the kingdom not the university.  I've even had people ask "Where did you get your degree?" to which I reply "UK" meaning the university...but then they counter with "Where at in the UK?" meaning the kingdom!

Sometimes a good reference point for a discussion is justly needed...

Just a bit of trivial information...

~NiM

RE: UK or The UK?

Just a clarification to Heckler and rb1957 - I know why a British person might be offended at there accent being mistaken for Australian, and vice versa.

My post was a semi-sarcastic response to jmv's post

Quote (jmv):

PS why do so Canadians get upset when you ask them which part of America they come from? (the enquiry usually based, I must admit, on their accents)

RE: UK or The UK?

And Yorkshire hasn't even been brought up in this discussion.  That's a whole seperate breed of Englishmen, er, Brit, er, um, I don't know.  I do know they'd rather be called Yorkshiremen than anything else while sharing a drink at the local.

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