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Including but not limited to

Including but not limited to

Including but not limited to

(OP)
"Including but not limited to .........."

The phrase all contractors hate to see on scope documents.

Does anyone have any others?

RE: Including but not limited to

"Contractor to coordinate..."

RE: Including but not limited to

A request of confidentiality: information...not to be disclosed to other parties.

Time is of the essence...

RE: Including but not limited to

Similar

RE: Including but not limited to

"Contractor to field verify all existing conditions prior to bid.  No allowance will be made for existing conditions, hidden or otherwise, after contract is awarded."

"Do not scale this drawing.  Field verify all stated dimensions."

"...or approved equal."

Nota bene:  A manufacturer / installer of control systems named his company "Approved Equal, Inc."  He's had fun bidding all sorts of jobs...

This'll be a fun thread I bet!

Best to ya,

Old Dave

RE: Including but not limited to


 *    Taken from the "Sales Conditions" of a pipes and fittings Supplier (no comment...!):


    SALE ORDERS    -    All the orders are assumed a title of reservation and they do not engage our Company to the delivery of articles demanded.
        (...)
    DELIVERIES    -    The terms of delivery come agree in contractual phase. Such terms have an indicative value. Our Company is not held to agree a compensation for direct damages which had to delivery delays.
        (...)
    PAYMENTS    -    The payments have to be settled terms also in the cases of delay in the arrival of the goods. In case of payment passed the established expiration, we'll apply the interests for delayed payment.
        (...)
    MODIFICATION    -    Our Company without any warning can make commercially and technically changes.





 *    Taken from an Offer issued by a valve actuator Manufacturer:


DELIVERY:     20/22 working weeks ex our works (summer/end of year holiday excluded), from order date, final technical details clarification and customer documentation approval. Delivery shall be also verified against the workload at the time of order placement.

      Given the purchase order date, would you be able to say their contract delivery date?       

  
Bye to all,      'NGL

RE: Including but not limited to

Forgot my favorite:  This is a TRUE excerpt from a section 15900 spec for a building automation controller for a college campus:

"Controller and all electronic devices shall be capable of surviving and remaining fully functional after repeated direct strikes by lightning."

I think at least one contractor proposed a really big copper dome over the campus...

RE: Including but not limited to


DRWeig:  Where was the campus, Transilvania? Electrical upgrades to Professor Frankenstein's laboratory perhaps?

My worst hated specification phrase is,

 'item' shall be placed on EITHER end, when the meaning is, 'item' shall be placed on BOTH ends

RE: Including but not limited to

How about:

"Any contractor seen with a smile on his face after awarding of the contract shall be subject to an immediate review of the bid."

RE: Including but not limited to

my favorite
The plans and specifications shall be considered and used together.  Anything appearing as a requirement of either shall be accepted as applicable to both even though not so stated therein shown.
Hydrae

RE: Including but not limited to

I may have already mentioned this in another thread but...

"Use a contractor from the approved list to plug the well."

Head first or feet first?

Hg

RE: Including but not limited to

But back to the original topic of commonly used phrases rather than silly mistakes--"including but not limited to" is another way to say "such as".  Sometimes a list of examples can make things a lot more clear than merely a list of requirements.

What I hate to see in contract documents is language saying "follow XYZ" when XYZ is already part of the spec.  The intent is emphasis, but it implies that ABC, LMN, and JKL, also already part of the spec, don't apply because they weren't mentioned explicitly.  Redundancy causes problems.

Hg

RE: Including but not limited to

Ah, in that vein I agree wholeheartedly!  Engineer/Lawyer-speak in specs (spec-speak?) can be both annoying and problematic.  I think a lot of it comes from a specifying engineer's reluctance to spend time changing something, no matter if it is archaic or redundant.  Hours are either billable or wasted in some firms.

"Such as..." is so much more succinct and specific than "Including but not limited to..."

Generalizations can cause grief too.  "Contractor shall coordinate installation among various trades to avoid interference and insure code compliance."  This is actually the job of the design engineer, is it not?  Does this phrase not attempt to dump all enginnering liability on an installer?

Oh, well.  Good posts above!

Best to y'all...

Old Dave

RE: Including but not limited to

"When specified" What aren't these the specifications? I guess you mean "when specified elsewhere in the contract". But sometimes a search for the separate specification is futile. This language might have made sense in the days of typewriters. Now that we have word processors, why not use specifications tailored to the job at hand?

RE: Including but not limited to

That *should* come about when you have a set of standard specifications and then another established mechanism for conveying additional information, such as a set of plan drawings.

But an equivalent to what you mention is "when required by the Engineer".  We put that all over the place in our standard specs.  It defines areas in which the resident engineer (often as represented by the field inspector) can make a judgement call on the spot.  Contractors rely on past experience to guess what those judgement calls are likely to be and bid accordingly.

Hg

RE: Including but not limited to

It can be difficult to specify things to the level at which the contractor or supplier no longer has to think.  Many of the seemingly strange restrictions (admittedly often badly worded) are there because the designer knows the outcome wanted, but I doesn't want to limit the technology or how that outcome is met.


Bung
Life is non-linear...

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