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Do you need to?

Do you need to?

Do you need to?

(OP)
Is it just me, or does anyone else get the urge to strangle anybody who says, "You need to..." when they mean "You must..."?

How on earth do they know what I need?  Or even want?  And quite often I don't need to (not from my perspective, at least).  They usually seem to mean that they need me to do it for whatever reason.

Bung
Life is non-linear...

RE: Do you need to?


It may be that you'd have to stifle forever your strangling need, if the dictionary I have is right. It defines need not only as the lack of, a requisite, or a desideratum, but also an obligation, a necessary duty.

RE: Do you need to?

Also, "must" is very imperative. I think that "need to" has its merits. If I want to achieve something I first need to do this thing, and then that and then I can do what I really wanted to do.

If I was told that I "must" do something - I guess that I would protest mildly. I think that most of us are little boys (although born during WWII) that react in that way when Mom tells us what we "must" do...

RE: Do you need to?

I had a South African boss who always said to me, "You must."  I hated it.

I think what I expect to hear is "I need you to..." which has the same mandatory effect, but doesn't bug me as much.

Hg

RE: Do you need to?

(OP)
But if I don't have the need, and it is you who has the need (or the imperative, as in 25362's dictionary), then what is wrong with "you should .. or " please will you ..." or if it as an urgent, no time for BS situation, "you must".

I still don't buy the "you need to line".  Just because you, as the issuer of the order, have a need it does not mean I do.  If I must, I must.  I can deal with that.  At least then there is no argument about who wants what done (or needs what done!)

Maybe it's all down to my southern African upbringing?  It's just the way they talk there - if it's an order, why pussy-foot around.  Aussies pride themselves on being blunt, but I think they would not survive long in the old RRSA!  Don't know if it's still like that.

Bung
Life is non-linear...

RE: Do you need to?

To me, "you must" and "you need to" are about the same.  I guess if I really think about it, "need" carries some kind of internal want while "must" can be just exteral obligation, but on the surface of it, they both just mean "you are obliged to".  Colloquially, I'm used to hearing "you need to" to mean "you have to", and they're both more familiar than "you must", which grates.

Hg

RE: Do you need to?

This appears to me as "I dont want to hurt your feelings language".
"you need to" sounds better than "You must".. However in the real world if we would stand in front of a mirror and rehearse these things.. I would suspect we could maybe agree that "I need you to get this out by...or I need you to get this done..." would be the better tack to take.
As young upstarts, we often take the tack or the procedure that was presented to us by our early supervisors, and thought it was the correct one. "It was really FEAR". Well why not it moved me off the mark.
 
My feelings on this has changed, I believe we should say it like it is. If I need you to do something, I should say it, without saying "you must" or "you should" or "you need'. Unless the circumstance is that the person whom you are talking to just cannot climb abord the program and be part of the team, then you have a REAL problem.
I have that problem now, I'm really trying, trying really hard. This person thinks he's great, and I don't think so..
Maybe I'll let him live. Just kidding.

Regards

pennpoint


 

RE: Do you need to?

I'd rather hear "Do this," than "You must do this."

Hg

RE: Do you need to?

How about

"I need a beer" or "I want a beer"

surely - I need a beer implies a necessity whereas I want a beer implies a desire.

Anyhow I want a beer, not sure if I need it but having one anyway.

cheers  

Naresuan University
Phitsanulok
Thailand

RE: Do you need to?

Bung,
In a situation, that REALLY DID NEED IMMEDIATE ATTENTION, an Aussie would say "F****** do it now". This phrase conveys only the urgency -bluntly- and no offence is intended. However, if for some reason offence was intended then several other incisive expletives aimed directly at the recipient would follow. The recipient would be left in no doubt that at that particular point neither his/her talents nor contribution were valued highly.

RE: Do you need to?

I had a boss for the shortest job ever.  He invariably preceded instructions with "go ahead and ..."  Nothing whatsover wrong with this.  In fact it came across as a polite request.  I suppose it was simply the monotony that finally got under my skin.  Sometimes it doesn't take much to kindle our frailties.

A prior coworker used to complain that his son would never take out the trash until it escalated to the F word command.  At that juncture, it would become apparant that it was a need of the parent and the son had better have a need to get it done.

RE: Do you need to?

(OP)
rnd2, that seems to work on a peer to peer level in Oz, or maybe if the orderer can physically stare down the ordered, but you are more likely to get the union rep on your back, or straight outright refusal.  I've never actually seen it work in reality here - people like to think it does, but my experience is that it generally doesn't.  Or no more so than anywhwere else.

Ozzies can be remarkably prickly at times if they feel they are being imposed upon.  But they also like being imposed upon (where else in the world would a government get away with taking your licence away for 2 minor speeding offences over a holiday break?).

So it is "you need to" instead of "Please will you" - invoke the guilt response, make them feel obliged to do it rather than feeling forced to do it.

Bung
Life is non-linear...

RE: Do you need to?

"rnd2, that seems to work on a peer to peer level in Oz,..............."
Bung, you make a good point, and thinking more about it, Aussie to Aussie.
All other things being equal, it probably would back-fire if a non-Aussie issued -that- command to an Aussie without the exact context/accent/tone/inflexion/body language/timing required to induce a good natured positive outcome rather than provoke a fight or at least be told to: "If you want it done NOW, go and f****** do it yourself" . I suspect similar mechanisms work with other cultures. Successful direct "verbal" communication is "instant" and although often taken for granted by those who naturally have aquired the skill it is more complex than written communication.

RE: Do you need to?

I am not bothered by the "You need to...". What really annoys me is people ordering fast food..."I need two Big Macs...", or worse yet, "Gimme two Big Macs..."

RE: Do you need to?

metman... get the movie "office space" the boss invariably uses: why don't you go ahead and... in fact, that was a SNL skeet for sometime...
the guy was so irritating... personally i use what in latin is called: "pluralis majestatis" or the majesty's plural (i think)...
 - we need to, or we must, or we should not, etc...
but always use WE, because it is not I who wants it... or YOU that has to do it... but "THE BUSINESS" that requires US (you and i) as a team, to get it done.

it is also very useful for stressing situations... like when somebody has to go...: unfortunately, we have a requirement to  terminate this contract - instead of: sorry pal, i am firing your arse...
or when having to give orders to peers.

saludos.
a.

RE: Do you need to?

Sort of like the royal or editorial "we"?

Hg

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