Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
(OP)
On the occasions that I have worked in the US, (several) I have noted with surprise that square drive screws are not nearly as familiar to American tradespeople as they are to Canadians. The race to patent every conceivable screwhead design was won by a Canadian in the sense that he got the best one. The square drive screw was patented by P.L.Robertson in 1911 and is still manufactured in the small Ontario city, Milton, where he established his factory, now Robertson-Whitehouse. These fasteners and the matching screwdriving tools are always referred to as Robertsons or "Robbies" by the trades up here but always advertised in US supply catalogues as "square drive", sometimes with the addition of adjectives like "revolutionary" I have heard that there was great opposition to their introduction into the US back in the day by the American makers (because they didn't hold the patents and the screws were better in use than theirs) and that there were even legislative measures taken to exclude Robertson screws. I have never known whether to credit this or not. I tend to think there is something to it, since the American trades that use them for the first time, love them. They stay on the driving tool when driven by hand or with a screwgun. Slot heads are rubbish to anyone who installs large numbers of fasteners and drivers on Phillips fasteners cam out very easily, usually making a mess of the screwhead, which doesn't matter in drywall screws but does when the screws are soft brass and are securing hinges that cost fifty bucks a set. Is anyone aware of why these excellent little devices have appeared in the world's most developed economy only in the last twenty or so years?





RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
Regards,
Cory
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
I agree with you though, the Torx system is good, but I will have to look up the specs to see which is actually better.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
If you are going to lookup Torx, look up Torx Plus.
I have an article on the non use of Sq. drive screws in US except by the casket, furniture and mobile home industry. I'll try to find it.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
Here is a good place to start with Torx/Torx Plus information:
http://
Regards,
Cory
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
I would agree that compared to cross recess, that Robertson is better, but like the others have said, if you are trying to get high torque levels, then you want Torx or Torx Plus. There was some testing done driving screws to about 75% of proof and Torx Plus lasted something like 10 times longer than Robertson drive.
Dick
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
The amount of torque that the screw can take befor the head breaks off means very little to the tradesman as long it does the job.
With the "Robby" you can simply put the screw on the end of a screwdriver or screwbit and it doesn't fall off. "NO fancy clips or Magnets required"
Now days time is money. Robertsons are cheaper than torx and faster to use.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
Robersons were used however they were S/S.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
Thanks for your reply. I would like to see that article.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
I want to know why a modest product with a good design was actively resisted by the United States, a country which has produced workplace tools and equipment that are second to none. Ridgid makes the best pipeworking gear around. Lincoln welders, Milwaukee drills, Why did sixty years go by before US mechanics even saw Robertson fasteners? Don't tell me about screwheads twisting off. I have twisted off enough Tapcon Phillips heads to pave a street with them.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
Any electrician, carpenter, or sheet metal worker who has ever used a Robertson head fastener, isn't happily going back to slotted or Phillips.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
It isn't only "finnicky high torque applications as in aerospace or reactor designs" that expose the weaknesses of square/Robertson drive. You mentioned decks - Torx/hexalobular/6 lobe/star drive is becoming popular for this application. You can see some products here:
http://www.screw-products.com/
Regards,
Cory
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
I have enjoyed the responses, and it is apparent from them that those who are closest to field use of fasteners are fans of Robbies. There are screws out that permit the use of either Phillips or Robertson drivers. I think there should be a driver made specifically for these screws. It would look a bit like a Torx.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
I am not sure what to make of your "those who are closet to field use" comment, but I think you would be remiss in not contemplating the words from yates and Screwman - they have huge experience and information in this area.
As far as combination drives, here is one from Phillips Screw Company:
http://www.phillips-screw.com/PSD.htm
Regards,
Cory
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
I recall a friend 20 years ago who used the square drive screws all the time around the house and on his van. He was also a Canadian exchange Naval officer!
I built the deck on my house about 10 years ago. I used a combination of phillip head deck screws and spiral deck screws. I seem to recall seeing square drive fasteners back then at your typical home improvement store.
I'm now in the process of modifying the deck to "insert" a hot tub. Removing both spiral deck nails and phillips head screws installed 10 years ago is a difficult pain in the %&$#%.
I've tried to find square drive screws for my re-build portion of the deck, and just can't seem to find them. I have found "special" phillips head screws intended for use in the new pressure treated lumber, and also "special" drives.
It appears that the only difference in the drives is the "special" phillips drives have more blunt at the tip, which may reduce slip. (I call these "special" only because I don't recall te proper term, if there is any).
This I do know - if square drive screws were readily available, I'd be using them.
RE: Why Are Robertson Screws So New To America?
Check out mshimko's post regarding decks, which I mentioned earlier. He's the kind of guy I mean when I say closest to the fastener's use in the field, a guy who is physically installing (or removing) them.
I am a guy who has put plenty of Robbies and Phillips heads into structures from millwork to fences to steel studs to concrete. The square heads are just plain better. And I have not experienced this twisting off of the heads that you seem to believe is chronic. While being very useful and reliable fasteners, Tapcons lose their heads with a dismaying frequency, Phillips and hex heads both. Torx, to my knowledge, has no broad application in base building construction, although I had to buy a Torx driver to change a sealed beam headlight on my van once. Anyway I'm not comparing Robbies and Torx. I am saying that Phillips head screws suck and have for almost a century when the Robertson square drive was better and readily available. And the answering posts are just what I knew I would see; the guys who get their hands dirty are fans of the square drive. With all respect, guys who measure the twist-off torque limit don't use the screws personally day in and day out.