Asked to lie.
Asked to lie.
(OP)
Greetings all
I have been on my new job almost six months and yesterday I was shocked by my superviser when he asked me to lie and "cover his back" on some results received from some wells that I tested. To make a long story short, he threatened to "take me down with him if I told my superiors". Well, he doesn't know yet but I immediately reported this to my engineering manager and his attitude has also since soured towards me since I told him that I was not going to lose my integrity for him or no one else. My question is does anybody have any advice since I am new to the corporate world?
I have been on my new job almost six months and yesterday I was shocked by my superviser when he asked me to lie and "cover his back" on some results received from some wells that I tested. To make a long story short, he threatened to "take me down with him if I told my superiors". Well, he doesn't know yet but I immediately reported this to my engineering manager and his attitude has also since soured towards me since I told him that I was not going to lose my integrity for him or no one else. My question is does anybody have any advice since I am new to the corporate world?





RE: Asked to lie.
The response of your manager is concerning, though. Did you really tell your manager that "...not going to lose my integrity for him or no one else?" Hard to say without being there but that might have come off as a bit threatening to him when (as I understand it), he never asked you to compromise yourself.
Be sure you follow all the policies and procedures to the "T." Don't expect any breaks from these chumps so be sure you don't need them.
It's a bit early for you to start looking for a new job but you might start investigating whether there are other opportunities within your company.
Depending on how things progress, consider going to your HR rep, another management type that you respect, or a mentor if you have one.
Take some pride in having done the right thing. Also know that if you'd "backed him up" and been found out, you'd almost certainly have been fired for perjuring yourself -- and rightly so.
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Bring back the HP-15
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RE: Asked to lie.
My options will be
1. Don't lie if it leads to a fatal incident.
2. Don't lie if losses are higher comparitively or irrecoverable.
3. Need not lie if your boss's boss is good to you.
I advise you not to be too sentimental in your job. Atleast, you should not be shocked when somebody asks you to tell a lie. Take it in a cool way and then decide.
Finally, don't take all these things for granted and use your own judgement.
Regards,
RE: Asked to lie.
Regards
RE: Asked to lie.
RE: Asked to lie.
RE: Asked to lie.
The character in question was an engineering mgr without engineering credentials. His immed staff was made up of two HS grad cronies of questionable background. He was disrespectful of my analyses and professional opinions. This, by the way, was a QS9000 qualified operation.
A product line for a luxury model car was going to hell with numerous field failures after years of trouble free service. I put my finger on it; inferior material from a source that I suspected of using 100% commodity regrind in a highly stressed part. Our drawings specified 10% max regrind.
Upon receiving notice, I informed the top boss, and the predictable happened. Up to this time the eng'g mgr was the fair haired boy of the top boss.
RE: Asked to lie.
The only morally and professionally defensible tactic is "Don't lie."
Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
RE: Asked to lie.
Don't know what the deal is with your engineering manager but it doesn't 'feel' right. Possibly he's sour because "nobody likes a tattletale" - lots of conflicting attitudes in the business world, very confusing and discouraging. There are still companies and managers who value honesty, though - hard to find but worth the effort, life is a lot happier when you aren't always watching your back.
(Good grief, did I just say Barney up there?!? Ugh, somebody stuff me full of sushi and drown me in Coke, please? >.< )
"Eat well, exercise regularly, die anyways."
RE: Asked to lie.
You are not guilty unless you are caught !!!
There are not many people who work to their conscience and this breed of people is fast disappearing from the world. Good to know somebody like that is around. Not sure what that would mean to your present career, but, I'm sure I would do the same thing, if ever I were to face such a situation.
HVAC68
RE: Asked to lie.
RE: Asked to lie.
RE: Asked to lie.
I supply the straight truth. I leave it to others to bend it.
If your boss wants to lie, he shouldn't involve you in it. Let that lazy rat make his own forgeries!
BTW, are these wells for drinking water? I certainly wouldn't stand by idly if anyone's life or health was at stake.
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com-SolidWorks API VB programming help
RE: Asked to lie.
Maui
RE: Asked to lie.
Can you reperform the test? and get the same results?
The agency with the government for compliance may be interested in your results, through a tip line they may do their own random check of the test you performed that had less than optimal results...
When two layers of management want you to lie, leave, soon.
Ask yourself, what other skeletons are in their closet???
Hydrae
RE: Asked to lie.
Build up your evidence time date that sort of thing - keep to the right and ensure that you have no worries behind you when someone is struggling to maintain a job they will do anything - never get close to a drowning man as he will take you down with him.
Its a sad place to be - integrity is something dear and to let someone take that away just means that you have sunk to their level. What about talking to the client ? what about going higher up ? any way to limit the damage that you face ?
Rugged
RE: Asked to lie.
You are relatively new to the firm where you are employed. You may not yet be aware of their corporate culture. Many employers are willing to compromise principles when money is at stake. There may be bigger issues going on than what you are aware of. It looks as if your boss's boss is involved as well with the problem that you mentioned. And it appears that he is not sympathetic to your view. I suggest that you begin looking for another job. From my point of view, if I had to rat out every unethical act that I observed at work, I wouldn't be employable at any company. I don't care what my employer does as long as they don't involve me in it. I wasn't this cynical when I began my career 20 years ago, but I've had to endure too much over the years.
RE: Asked to lie.
Principles are what makes the man - if you are willing to let go then you have lost the game. nothing is ever worth that sort of comprimise.
Ive been there Ive seen things that shouldnt have occurred - people have tired to make me do things that would have been against principles. Falsifying records - missing certain tests just to get through paper works quickly ? Sorry but that was something that I baulked at and something that made me wary of any situation where you are sucked into a web of lies and deciept.
I dont care what my employer does as long as the dont involve me in it. That sort of statement comes from someone jaded and I guess peeved off at work.
Rugged
RE: Asked to lie.
I appreciate your point of view regarding ethics. I want to go on record as saying that I personally don't engage in unethical work behavior, my employer does. I have also conferred with a couple of trusted fellow engineers regarding what I am observing. They too stated that their work experiences were similar. They too kept their mouths shut about things they observed to anyone outside their office. They waited until the time was right to jettison those particular employers. Thats pretty much what I plan to do when the time is right. Right now, I need a job bad. If I had the power I not only would revoke my superiors' licenses, I would throw them in jail. Unfortunately the problem involves the client as well. This may sound far fetched, but our client is one of the largest companies in the world, with a lot of influence in our government. They are fully involved in the unethical behavior that I am observing. I also don't believe that the state boards are going to take the word of someone who says something is going to happen in the future. I think they will only do something only AFTER it happens. For my part, I try to do my designs the best that I can, within the work environment that I find myself. The last thing that I want is for someone to come after me because I took a short cut.
RE: Asked to lie.
In a previous job I was taksed with doing checks on electrical integrity - the number that needed doing was huge - an army camp out in the Balkans. Each and every living accom block had to be checked that it was safe - polarity and earth bonding that sort of thing. Now the company started to ramp up what it wanted done as a normal day to the point that the only way that you could achieve this turnaround would be to lie and falsify. I didnt and this grated the management. Why do we allow ourselves to be taken in with this - to assist and contribute ?
The law classes this as a contributory factor and thus makes you liable. I know Id prefer to have a clean slate if I went for a job rather than one that had me down as someone that would get involved with wrong doings.
Rugged
RE: Asked to lie.
Don't lie if?
Being an engineer that values integrity, I recommend don't lie full stop stuff the rest of the world. If you need a rider such as "if" you are already compromised.
I know in my small company I value integrity above a "yes" attitude, a good argument clears the air and often presents another point of view.
Keep your integrity stuff everyone else. You will always come out on top eventually.
regards
sc
RE: Asked to lie.
I hope you trust if I say I really enjoyed people opposing my views and telling the OP to stick to the truth. Perhaps my second half of the post was not taken as seriously as the first half. The reason for specifying some conditions was that I couldn't give a reply in a puritan's point of view. Further, I took it in a broader perspective and not only in the present context.
I feel, if it be, we have to be truthful in each and every way. Suppose, if I couldn't attend an urgent meeting in time because of some valid personal reasons and if I excuse it with traffic jam or a punctured tire, do you consider it to be ok as far as truth is concerned? I feel it is wrong if I already suggested somebody to be truthful always.
This was my perception when I gave my first reply. I will be pretty happy if the OP will be as truthful to his own faults as of his supervisor in future.
PS: Though my post conveyed some wrong message, I have been truthful to the best of my conscience and already faced rough waters.
Regards,
RE: Asked to lie.
if your boss keeps putting pressure on you... send him an email stating the facts you know to be truth.
then, express that per his verbal instructions what you understand is that his recommended version is such and such, ask him to confirm or correct.
get the acknowledgment of receipt notification from the email system
go into properties and copy the ID of the message (it is a very long alphanumeric combo).
copy everything, put it in your safe at home.
we tend to see emails, letters, conversations, chat transcripts as communications... WRONG, FOR A LAWYER THEY ARE EVIDENCE.
have your resume ready, be ready to sue... but more than ready to settle.
you do not want to have long term relationships with rats...
you will be perceived as one.
later.
saludos.
a.
RE: Asked to lie.
Oh and on the side of integrity, good job, not many people are willing to do that these days.
RE: Asked to lie.
I was almost terminated once for trying to repay the company when they paid me too much one pay period.
Follow everything up with confirmation emails as stated in other posts. Treat everyone nice and do the ethical things. That is how I survived 9 years with Worldcom/MCI through many layoffs. I could wright a book on the stuff there.
RE: Asked to lie.
RE: Asked to lie.
RE: Asked to lie.
FalsePrecision,
Its not appropriate to discuss political views on this forum, as some of us don't share your viewpoint.
RE: Asked to lie.
FalsePrecision:
Statements based on logical fallacies don't count for much.
RE: Asked to lie.
Wer're talking about lies and liars. What better field than politics to find examples?
RE: Asked to lie.
HOME>FORUMS>CORPORATE SURVIVAL>POLITICAL STARATEGIES>OVERCOMING OBSTACLES......
Now, if I were posting in the Moment Frames and Shear Wall forum, I wouldn't bring up politics.....
RE: Asked to lie.
I believe that we should be discussing lying as it directly relates to the engineering profession on this forum. Having a discussion about politicians lying doesn't qualify.