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Waffle words (or even weasel words)
5

Waffle words (or even weasel words)

Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
As I sit here 3 hours past quitting time on a Friday night trying to turn my excellent 100-word abstract into a passable 500-word abstract for a talk whose content will largely depend on things that haven't happened yet, I find myself needing to BS, hedge, waffle, dodge, and weave, none of which were ever my strong suit.

I included the phrase "a number of".  I hadn't noticed before just how meaningless this phrase is.  It's usually used with a positive/optimistic sense--kind of like "a few" except that "a few" has an "only a few" tinge to it, and "a number of" doesn't.  So it sounds better than "handful" or "few", but in reality it still refers to the same quantity--typically something that could be counted on one hand, or maybe two.  Or maybe even a few more than that.  It's an upwardly open little phrase.

The number that I actually have in mind is three, for particularly low values of three.  (I know of one, and I've heard about two others, and I suspect that by the time I give the talk there might be two or three on top of those.)

I think I can truthfully use this phrase to describe any quantity greater than one.  But it could be taken to mean eight, or ten, or twelve.

A good waffle phrase.

Y'all got any favorite (or unfavorite) examples of waffle wording, or its more insidious cousin, weasel wording?

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

I think padding penultimate to infer a number instead of plain speak is weasle wording.
Once after the penultimate to infer the last
Penultimate = One before the last is OK
Once before the penultimate to infer two before the last
Twice before etc etc

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

3
(OP)
Oy!  That reminds me of the report from a two-person race:  "I came in second place!  But that other guy was next to last."

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

"the possibility exists that ..."

"it seems likely that ..."

"while unlikely, the possibility that .... cannot be ruled out."

"The solution is a function of a large number of variables, not all of which can be known with certainty."

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

A nice word (proper as well) for the one before the one before last is:
antepenultimate

I've always understood 'a few' to mean two or three, whereas 'several' feels like quite a bit more. As in 'I only did the bad thing a few times, but I did the good thing several times'.

Sounds more positive too!

Good Luck
johnwm
________________________________________________________
To get the best from these forums read FAQ731-376 before posting

UK steam enthusiasts: www.essexsteam.co.uk

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

The politicians have this art absolutely mastered.

Ask one of them the time of day, and he will begin an unbroken monologue that will go for at least an hour, and at the end of it you will still be wondering what the correct time is (was).

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

I've always heard/used the following meanings:

"A couple of..." = two.
"A few of..." = 3 or more.
"Several..." = 5 or more.

Some I like to use:

"scheduled for completion on... pending..." always give an out as schedules most always change.
"scheduled to arrive at..." some things are out of my control.
"based on positive test results, we should be able to..."

I also like to stress when things are in a design &  development phase, making sure to note that the design & development efforts have been based on a specification.  Changes to the specification will require further design & development work, and an extented time table.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

"Provided that" opens up a whole new box of tricks as well.
Damn, John, antepenultimate. What weasley feel that has! worth a star.

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
I love antepenultimate; it's just a cool word.  I've even found uses for it here & there.

It's not as bad as "one before penultimate" because that one's such a clear avoidance of "second to last" (one gets to use the number one instead of two) while "antepenultimate" does mean "second to last"; it's a fancy word rather than a sidestep.  (Although there are those who think that fancy words are suspect, like my previous (not penultimate) boss.)

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

The problem with using vague words like few and several is that they can be misinterpreted by the reader.  It doesn't really matter what the writer might think it means.  This particularly applies if dealing with the media.  For example, you might have an incident on site where there have been cuts and grazes to 3 people.  You might tell a journalist that there were a 'few minor injuries'.  The journalist might turn this into 'several injuries', and his editor might turn this into 'many serious injuries'.  If you're lucky and it's an ethical journalist (Is that an oxymoron?), the editor might be persuaded to downgrade it to 'many injuries'.  The reader then assumes it was a very serious incident indeed.  On the other hand, 'cuts and bruises to 3 people' cannot be changed to a larger number without deliberately lying (although it could of course be changed to a 'few minor injuries'!).

On this (side) issue, I remember dealing with a supplier 'several' years ago, who wanted to advertise the intrinsically safe equipment they had sold to us, using us as a reference in a magazine they sent to their customers.  We agreed to this on condition that we would review the piece prior to publication.  In the document we were sent for review, it included the phrase 'hazardous chemicals' in several places.  My boss at that time, was aware of the fact that, although this had a specific meaning relating to flammable materials, that this could be translated in people's minds to 'dangerous chemicals' rather than the correct 'flammable chemicals'.  He suggested a change to using 'flammable', or removing the word 'hazardous' altogether.  This I did, carefully trying to replace or remove the word hazardous as appropriate.  A few weeks later, the article was indeed published.  As requested, the word 'hazardous' did not appear at all.  The supplier (or their subcontractor)had studiously removed the word and replaced all instances of this word with - yes, you guessed it - 'dangerous'.

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

Good points, all!  One phrase that irritates me because of its lack of meaning is "as it were."  Whatever that means.  I think it's intended as a spacer, to give the speaker time to think of what he's going to say next.  And Bush #1 used "at this juncture" all the time, which came to mean little because of the frequency of its use.

I used to work for a man who really knew how to get around government nonsense.  Our agency regularly received state and federal grants to do work at a regional level, which was more efficient than having someone from upper levels of government (unfamiliar with the area) do the work.  A one- or two-page synopsis of the necessary work came with the grant, generally written in such vague language that we never had a clue what the state or feds wanted.  This was because the state or feds didn't really know yet what they wanted.  So my boss would spend about 5% of the grant preparing a baloney report and hand it in within a couple of weeks.  It would come back with all kinds of comments, generally very specific, about what they wanted and why this report was inadequate (using the baloney report as a guide for what they didn't want, which made them think about what they did want).  THEN we sat down and worked on the project using their comments as a guide, and finishing the project within budget with the remaining grant money.  This technique was so effective that the state and federal agencies we worked with began recommending us to other regional agencies like ours.

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

We had a high school principal who had a penchant for the phrase "in every sense of the word."  I actually like it a little, if used sparingly.  Sorry, guess this does not qualify as a waffle or weasel phrase but could work for a speaking think breather.


RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

The waffle word I have used and now try to avoid is "issue" or "issues". As in we still have issues with debugging that equipment; or Is that going to become an issue?, and more.
It is a PC replacement for "problem". Well problems can be solved, but how bo you solve an issue?

pennpoint
   

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
I overuse "issue" a lot.  It's vaguer than "problem" when I don't want to say "problem".  I try not to use it in two sentences in a row...I have "issue" issues.

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

This sounds like an issue for prayer.


RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

If a "couple" is two,
"few of" is 3 or more,
and "several" is 5 or more.
What does "a bunch" amount to?
I think we have an "issue" here!

Joe Borg
www.methode-eur.com

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

HgTX
I see you received two stars for your post re: my issue(s)post. To me, it indicates there is some agreement from the forum to being "vague".
Why are people so sensitive to the word 'problem'.
When you (collectively) were in school did your math teacher give you math issues?, algebra issues and calculus issues, I dont think so.
There are small problems and big problems and huge problems. They can all be solved. Still, I think dancing around trying to soft talk the "problem" to your boss, customer or who ever is not being honest to them or to yourself. I think it's a problem.

It's only MY opinion

pennpoint

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

I tell my boss it's my job to give him the straight truth.  It's his job to twist it.

"Customer satisfaction, while theoretically possible, is neither guaranteed nor statistically likely.--E.L. Kersten
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

A star for that one TheTick.  I tell mine to not ask questions that he doesn't want to hear the true answers to.

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

MadMango: I just ran into a problem like that with my boss yesterday, who specifically directed me to make a color rendering of an exhibit plan using Photoshop, which I had no training or experience in.  I did the job (under the guidance of another person here who is good at Photoshop), expecting that a larger percentage of my time would be billed to training, not the client.  I made it clear to my boss that I was entirely new to Photoshop before I started, but he insisted.  Then when he called me on the carpet yesterday about the high expense of the job, and asked me why I had decided to do it in Photoshop, he jumped right down my throat when I tried to answer him.  Then he got mad because I got mad, and he threw me out of his office.  I told him outright that if he doesn't want me to answer a question, not to ask it of me.  Obviously, it's not going to be a happy answer; otherwise we would be in his office in the first place.  Then I wasted a good hour fuming about it - hardly billable time.  Like the old line out of "A Few Good Men":  You can't handle the truth.  I agree with The Tick: I'm happy to tell him what I know; let him decide what to do with the information.

(Sorry for the rant, folks.  I'm still fuming a bit.  Thanks for putting up with me.)

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
Good lord, wabbit, how awful.  I hope blaming you for his decisions isn't typical of your boss's management style.

On "problem" vs. "issue"...I think "problem" with the sole exception of homework does have quite a negative meaning.  I agree that "issue" is overused, but is there a better word for "things we have to make sure are handled but aren't bad"?  For example, the interaction between X and Y isn't necessarily a problem, just something that needs to be taken into account so that there isn't a problem.  Is "concern" just as meaningless as "issue" or is it not as bad?  

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

Thanks, HgTX. Mostly he's a decent guy, but his people skills are pretty poor.  Most of the time, his noise is no more than blowing off frustration.  Just keep out of the way.

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

In lieu of "issue" try working in sine qua non an essential and indispensable thing.
 
If all else fails try German die Sachfragen factual issues or die Neuemissionen   new issues.

A purloined foreign language phase can change a screed into a piece de resistance. Okay, maybe not, but if someone fell asleep during your talk and then just woke-up, he may be a liitle bewildered.  I once had a professor who would put pictures from his summer vacation into his presentations, just to see who was paying attention.  

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

I don't know pennpoint... I had a few "issues" with calculus!! (Mostly due to a poor instructor)

<<When you (collectively) were in school did your math teacher give you math issues?, algebra issues and calculus issues, I dont think so. >>

Keep the wheels on the ground
Bob
showshine@aol.com

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

Not sure if this belongs here or someplace else, but I'll post it anyways.

I heard this last night, "It's done, but not finished."

In my line of work, this means:

A "Black Ops" prototype has been built under my direction in the shop and shipped to a customer some months ago.  Now a customer wants 50 more.  Since I was able to build the last one, it shouldn't be hard for you to replicate it.  All you have to do is document the changes, fix the BOM and updates the Routings.  The guys in the shop should be able to help you because I didn't document any of the changes."

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
Ooh!  Possible synonym for "issue":  "concern".

Maybe just as empty, but at least swapping them around makes for variety.  I see it as a little more negative than "issue" but nowhere near "problem".

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

You can also replace "issue" and "concern" and "problem" with "action item".

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

We prefer "opportunity."  We had a few opportunities after first flight.  Hey -- even the test pilot called them opportunities.

HgTX,
Had to give you another star for your take on "concern" but disagree with synonym.  Make that eupemism or is euphemym agreeable?

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
If I had a way to give myself some kind of "duh" icon I'd do it.  I was all gee whiz about my brilliant insight about "concern" the day before yesterday, when in fact I'd already brought it up myself the previous time I posted.  Guess I should spend more time narcissistically rereading my own posts, n'est-ce pas?

Eenyhow, what I really came here to say was that since "issue" is vaguer than "concern", it is the former that is the euphemism for the latter.  I have no idea how to express the opposite relationship.

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

"Concerns" can be made to go away with "explanations".

To get rid of an "issue" a modification is required.

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
Hmm...that makes so much sense, and yet reverses my severity ranking.  Waffly words these are indeed!

I think usually when I'm slinging "issue" about, I haven't yet gotten to the more thought-out stage where I've figured out what requires modification, what requires simply an explanation, and what requires a contingency plan (which is somewhere between modification and explanation, I think).  It's such a nice waffle word that I don't even have to commit to whether it's an issue, a concern, or a problem!

Oh, here's another one--"consideration".  Probably the same as MintJulep's "concern" but less severe than mine.

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

Having a contingency plan set to go implies that you had a concern and were worried that it would become an issue if it manifested itself.

To tie that into my previous post, the contingency plan is the explanation that allowed you proceed even there was a concern floating around.

Quatities come into play here too.

A contingency plan can be implemented during the qualification testing, or if there are only a few widgets out in the field.

Once you have a big bunch of widgets out in the field you've got a "field mod program", or a "recall" or an "AD", depending on your industry.

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

(OP)
Wazzan "AD"?

Hg

RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)

Airworthiness Directive

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