Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Waffle words (or even weasel words)
(OP)
As I sit here 3 hours past quitting time on a Friday night trying to turn my excellent 100-word abstract into a passable 500-word abstract for a talk whose content will largely depend on things that haven't happened yet, I find myself needing to BS, hedge, waffle, dodge, and weave, none of which were ever my strong suit.
I included the phrase "a number of". I hadn't noticed before just how meaningless this phrase is. It's usually used with a positive/optimistic sense--kind of like "a few" except that "a few" has an "only a few" tinge to it, and "a number of" doesn't. So it sounds better than "handful" or "few", but in reality it still refers to the same quantity--typically something that could be counted on one hand, or maybe two. Or maybe even a few more than that. It's an upwardly open little phrase.
The number that I actually have in mind is three, for particularly low values of three. (I know of one, and I've heard about two others, and I suspect that by the time I give the talk there might be two or three on top of those.)
I think I can truthfully use this phrase to describe any quantity greater than one. But it could be taken to mean eight, or ten, or twelve.
A good waffle phrase.
Y'all got any favorite (or unfavorite) examples of waffle wording, or its more insidious cousin, weasel wording?
Hg
I included the phrase "a number of". I hadn't noticed before just how meaningless this phrase is. It's usually used with a positive/optimistic sense--kind of like "a few" except that "a few" has an "only a few" tinge to it, and "a number of" doesn't. So it sounds better than "handful" or "few", but in reality it still refers to the same quantity--typically something that could be counted on one hand, or maybe two. Or maybe even a few more than that. It's an upwardly open little phrase.
The number that I actually have in mind is three, for particularly low values of three. (I know of one, and I've heard about two others, and I suspect that by the time I give the talk there might be two or three on top of those.)
I think I can truthfully use this phrase to describe any quantity greater than one. But it could be taken to mean eight, or ten, or twelve.
A good waffle phrase.
Y'all got any favorite (or unfavorite) examples of waffle wording, or its more insidious cousin, weasel wording?
Hg





RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Once after the penultimate to infer the last
Penultimate = One before the last is OK
Once before the penultimate to infer two before the last
Twice before etc etc
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
"it seems likely that ..."
"while unlikely, the possibility that .... cannot be ruled out."
"The solution is a function of a large number of variables, not all of which can be known with certainty."
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
antepenultimate
I've always understood 'a few' to mean two or three, whereas 'several' feels like quite a bit more. As in 'I only did the bad thing a few times, but I did the good thing several times'.
Sounds more positive too!
Good Luck
johnwm
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RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Ask one of them the time of day, and he will begin an unbroken monologue that will go for at least an hour, and at the end of it you will still be wondering what the correct time is (was).
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
"A couple of..." = two.
"A few of..." = 3 or more.
"Several..." = 5 or more.
Some I like to use:
"scheduled for completion on... pending..." always give an out as schedules most always change.
"scheduled to arrive at..." some things are out of my control.
"based on positive test results, we should be able to..."
I also like to stress when things are in a design & development phase, making sure to note that the design & development efforts have been based on a specification. Changes to the specification will require further design & development work, and an extented time table.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Damn, John, antepenultimate. What weasley feel that has! worth a star.
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
It's not as bad as "one before penultimate" because that one's such a clear avoidance of "second to last" (one gets to use the number one instead of two) while "antepenultimate" does mean "second to last"; it's a fancy word rather than a sidestep. (Although there are those who think that fancy words are suspect, like my previous (not penultimate) boss.)
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
On this (side) issue, I remember dealing with a supplier 'several' years ago, who wanted to advertise the intrinsically safe equipment they had sold to us, using us as a reference in a magazine they sent to their customers. We agreed to this on condition that we would review the piece prior to publication. In the document we were sent for review, it included the phrase 'hazardous chemicals' in several places. My boss at that time, was aware of the fact that, although this had a specific meaning relating to flammable materials, that this could be translated in people's minds to 'dangerous chemicals' rather than the correct 'flammable chemicals'. He suggested a change to using 'flammable', or removing the word 'hazardous' altogether. This I did, carefully trying to replace or remove the word hazardous as appropriate. A few weeks later, the article was indeed published. As requested, the word 'hazardous' did not appear at all. The supplier (or their subcontractor)had studiously removed the word and replaced all instances of this word with - yes, you guessed it - 'dangerous'.
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
I used to work for a man who really knew how to get around government nonsense. Our agency regularly received state and federal grants to do work at a regional level, which was more efficient than having someone from upper levels of government (unfamiliar with the area) do the work. A one- or two-page synopsis of the necessary work came with the grant, generally written in such vague language that we never had a clue what the state or feds wanted. This was because the state or feds didn't really know yet what they wanted. So my boss would spend about 5% of the grant preparing a baloney report and hand it in within a couple of weeks. It would come back with all kinds of comments, generally very specific, about what they wanted and why this report was inadequate (using the baloney report as a guide for what they didn't want, which made them think about what they did want). THEN we sat down and worked on the project using their comments as a guide, and finishing the project within budget with the remaining grant money. This technique was so effective that the state and federal agencies we worked with began recommending us to other regional agencies like ours.
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
It is a PC replacement for "problem". Well problems can be solved, but how bo you solve an issue?
pennpoint
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
"few of" is 3 or more,
and "several" is 5 or more.
What does "a bunch" amount to?
I think we have an "issue" here!
Joe Borg
www.methode-eur.com
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
I see you received two stars for your post re: my issue(s)post. To me, it indicates there is some agreement from the forum to being "vague".
Why are people so sensitive to the word 'problem'.
When you (collectively) were in school did your math teacher give you math issues?, algebra issues and calculus issues, I dont think so.
There are small problems and big problems and huge problems. They can all be solved. Still, I think dancing around trying to soft talk the "problem" to your boss, customer or who ever is not being honest to them or to yourself. I think it's a problem.
It's only MY opinion
pennpoint
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
http://www.EsoxRepublic.com
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
(Sorry for the rant, folks. I'm still fuming a bit. Thanks for putting up with me.)
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
On "problem" vs. "issue"...I think "problem" with the sole exception of homework does have quite a negative meaning. I agree that "issue" is overused, but is there a better word for "things we have to make sure are handled but aren't bad"? For example, the interaction between X and Y isn't necessarily a problem, just something that needs to be taken into account so that there isn't a problem. Is "concern" just as meaningless as "issue" or is it not as bad?
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
If all else fails try German die Sachfragen factual issues or die Neuemissionen new issues.
A purloined foreign language phase can change a screed into a piece de resistance. Okay, maybe not, but if someone fell asleep during your talk and then just woke-up, he may be a liitle bewildered. I once had a professor who would put pictures from his summer vacation into his presentations, just to see who was paying attention.
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
<<When you (collectively) were in school did your math teacher give you math issues?, algebra issues and calculus issues, I dont think so. >>
Keep the wheels on the ground
Bob
showshine@aol.com
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
I heard this last night, "It's done, but not finished."
In my line of work, this means:
A "Black Ops" prototype has been built under my direction in the shop and shipped to a customer some months ago. Now a customer wants 50 more. Since I was able to build the last one, it shouldn't be hard for you to replicate it. All you have to do is document the changes, fix the BOM and updates the Routings. The guys in the shop should be able to help you because I didn't document any of the changes."
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Maybe just as empty, but at least swapping them around makes for variety. I see it as a little more negative than "issue" but nowhere near "problem".
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
HgTX,
Had to give you another star for your take on "concern" but disagree with synonym. Make that eupemism or is euphemym agreeable?
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Eenyhow, what I really came here to say was that since "issue" is vaguer than "concern", it is the former that is the euphemism for the latter. I have no idea how to express the opposite relationship.
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
To get rid of an "issue" a modification is required.
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
I think usually when I'm slinging "issue" about, I haven't yet gotten to the more thought-out stage where I've figured out what requires modification, what requires simply an explanation, and what requires a contingency plan (which is somewhere between modification and explanation, I think). It's such a nice waffle word that I don't even have to commit to whether it's an issue, a concern, or a problem!
Oh, here's another one--"consideration". Probably the same as MintJulep's "concern" but less severe than mine.
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
To tie that into my previous post, the contingency plan is the explanation that allowed you proceed even there was a concern floating around.
Quatities come into play here too.
A contingency plan can be implemented during the qualification testing, or if there are only a few widgets out in the field.
Once you have a big bunch of widgets out in the field you've got a "field mod program", or a "recall" or an "AD", depending on your industry.
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)
Hg
RE: Waffle words (or even weasel words)