JUST CURIOUS
JUST CURIOUS
(OP)
Just a quick question about job prospects in ur respective areas.
As a newly graduated engineer from N.Ireland, i had every intention of moving to Canada (Got some family there, always here wonderful things about it), however after reading through some of these posts it seems Canada is NOT the place to be for engineers, in terms of having a succesful career.
As i am still young i feel decisions like this will greatly influence my future(if any) in engineering.
Job prospects for graduating engineers in N.Ireland are at best poor.(what with the guy who fixes the television being an electrical engineer!!)
These were my reasons for wanting to move in the first place, and im still keen to leave this country.
So i was just wandering wot working conditions, salaries, job prospects etc, for engineers are like where ur from?
As a newly graduated engineer from N.Ireland, i had every intention of moving to Canada (Got some family there, always here wonderful things about it), however after reading through some of these posts it seems Canada is NOT the place to be for engineers, in terms of having a succesful career.
As i am still young i feel decisions like this will greatly influence my future(if any) in engineering.
Job prospects for graduating engineers in N.Ireland are at best poor.(what with the guy who fixes the television being an electrical engineer!!)
These were my reasons for wanting to move in the first place, and im still keen to leave this country.
So i was just wandering wot working conditions, salaries, job prospects etc, for engineers are like where ur from?





RE: JUST CURIOUS
RE: JUST CURIOUS
Anotehr option is to get involved in areas that are guaranteed to heat up in the next 2-5 yrs. Such as LNG related industries( liquifaction terminals, regasification terminals, shipping, etc), deep ocean oil /gas development,coal gasification.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
He eventually found work in the south of France. Being in the EU you'll find working in europe no problem, and most times the language isn't a problem if it's a large international company.
corus
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I live in Eastern Canada, and have a reasonably good mech. eng. job - but my husband who is also a mech. eng is currently unemployed.
There are jobs, but depending how much $ you are willing to work for and how flexible you are on what part of our huge country you want to live in and what industry type you are targeting, you will find it more or less difficult to find a job.
However, I can't say that I know how easy of difficult it is for a foreigner to get a work permit.
Good Luck!
RE: JUST CURIOUS
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And in the paper copy of today's P&J, Atwood want a mechanical engineer for a couple of years in Perth, Australia for a drill rig upgrade (but they want drilling experience).
Salaries in the oil business are excellent, you can get the opportunity to travel, and if you're an offshore hand, you only work 6 months a year....
RE: JUST CURIOUS
Every new grad I know has gotten a job with ease. You can expect to wait upto 6 monthes from the time you start applying to the time you start working.
If you want to work in oil (usually crap jobs for new grads) it will be no problem. Oil jobs are the easiest to get and they pay well but are not recommended unless you are keenly interested or are just in it for the money.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
new grad salary should be $40,000 - $55,000 Canadian.
The large range is due to the large country. Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal will pay more because they cost more.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
On the other hand, if you are willing to re-locate to northern Canada, or places that are far from the big cities, then it is a totally different story. There are not too many grads who want to go there, so the pay is much bigger, and there are plenty of jobs. Some companies are willing to arrange for you to get your work permit in a record time.
I had a couple of friends who worked in Thompson, Manitoba, and another friend in Iqualuit, Nunavut (I think that's how it's spelled). They had amazing pays, but nothing to do... Also, there are some companies in industrial cities, such as Sudbury or Hamilton, Ontario, that some three years hired up to half of my classmates.
I suggest that you do a search of big companies, and then find out how desperate they are to hire somebody, and then make your move. There is always a career section on their websites, with a possibility to fill out an online application form. I wouldn't suggest this method to apply for jobs, but if they are desperate, they'll contact you.
Try inco.com, stelco.com, dofasco.ca, alcan.com, norbord.com, to name just a few that were hiring in the past couple of years.
Good luck!
Coka
RE: JUST CURIOUS
DRILLERNIC, most of my experience is with CAD, and in a drawing office, but im greedy, i'll go where the doe is.
COKA, live in NORTHERN Ireland, so could probably handle the north of Canada, im guessing ts pretty cold up there, but is there much to do up there?
my degree is in both electrical and mechanical engineering, but i specialised in mechanical, as im not overly keen on electrical. But would there be more electrical jobs in Canada than mechanical.
Sorry by the way, i know im just being lazy not looking up job websites, but you guys on here are first class when it comes to giving information and advice.
Cheers
RE: JUST CURIOUS
Have fun!!
Coka
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What I meant about the money is in general BC pays more than Sask and Ontario pays more than PEI. So don't pick based on wage. $40,000 in Saskatoon is worth more than $50,000 in Vancouver because of the cost of living.
When I was a new grad I worked in Scotland and England and found the wages to be much lower than in Canada.
Give it a go.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. I know a guy who moved from Israel to Calgary and loved it.
Hg
RE: JUST CURIOUS
In general terms, Canada has a massive over-supply (or under-utilization) of engineers of most kinds, measurable in a number of ways. That DOES NOT MEAN that there are no engineering jobs in Canada, just that there are lots of people looking for the jobs that are publicly advertised. The majority of engineering jobs in Canada are filled through connections and networking, and hence tend to be found by people who already have connections and a network in the local economy. And local grads also have an advantage since they represent a lower hire risk to employers.
Canada IS a great place to live, so it's a sought-after destination for immigration. Canada's immigration policy has divorced itself from the notion of matching supply and demand on a profession-by-profession basis as unrealistic, and has switched to giving points to people based on their level of education, skill in English or French, "adaptability" and other factors, in the hope that the economy will sort them all out after they come and find them jobs. Unfortunately, this has resulted in a 12-fold increase in engineering immigration in a decade where Canada's workforce and economic growth has been less than 20%. By my calcs we've generated a surplus of some 100,000 engineers in the past 12 years.
The over-supply is far more acute in the major population centres, particularly in Toronto and Vancouver. Toronto region alone receives 54% of Canada's "skilled worker" class of immigrants. If you choose to come, pick somewhere other than Toronto unless you've already found a job there before you arrive- that's a given.
You've got some things going for you that many recent immigrants don't: you're most likely a native speaker of English, which is a definite plus. You've got experience in a business environment and an education from an educational environment which employers will see as far closer to the Canadian norm than can be said for many of the most recent wave of immigrants (i.e. the ones from India, China and the former Soviet bloc countries). And you're a mech eng rather than a civil, which means that you have the option of working in either a licensed or non-licensed engineering role, so you won't have to wait until you get your license to find a job.
If you do choose to come, I recommend you apply for a license in the province you intend to settle in before you come. Ontario (and BC too I believe) permit this process to begin in your home country. See www.peo.on.ca for more details if you're coming to Ontario.
In the end, decide why you're moving. If it's purely for engineering opportunities, the 'States is probably a better bet for you than Canada. But if you want the best place to live, you'll have to sort that out against your own list of criteria and nobody can really help you.
If you do choose to come to Canada, you're absolutely welcome! But please don't whine and bad-mouth Canada if you ultimately have a tough time finding a job as an engineer. Canada's here to provide an opportunity for you to take advantage of, not to make one for you. You, unlike many in the current wave of engineering immigrants, at least will have made your decision with the supply-side information in hand and won't be able to claim that you were misled.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
The companies I am tallking about are mostly metallurgy oriented, however, I was told that there are many of mechanical engineers working there. It doesn't hurt to give it a try, nifez has nothing to lose.
Coka
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Moltenmetal:
Many of the engineers I graduated with went to work in the states. It would be interesting to here something about that statistic.
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The problem we have with engineering oversupply/ underutilization in Canada isn't localized to Toronto- it's just WORST in Toronto. It's a national problem- the stats I've given are national stats, not Toronto or Ontario stats. That doesn't mean there aren't local shortages of particular skill sets, particularly in outlying areas. As I've said before, the oversupply doesn't affect the number of jobs- it just affects the competition amongst applicants to get them, particularly the publicly advertised ones.
How is it possible for some businesses to experience "shortages" and have a hard time finding the right candidates, despite a general oversupply? This occurs when firms are looking for a very specific skill set and experience level for an existing project with neither the time nor the inclination to train people for the job. And they're looking for temporary, contract help to boot. Any firm which has a hard time attracting entry-level engineering staff at this time is just plain incompetent in dealing with human resources issues and should hire some professional help.
When you start treating engineers as a commodity service rather than as a profession, you get "shortages" which result from a lack of proper succession planning which no amount of immigration can fix. Our current situation in Canada is proof positive of that.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
PS Even when we post on monster.com we get very few Ontario applicants.
If new grads in Canada want a job bad enough just show up in northern Alberta with a resume and you will be working within the week.
Quit serving coffee in Toronto and go get a job. Hiding in your parents basement, mass applying for jobs on the internet won't get you very far if you are a new grad.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
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"The job situation is terrible it took me 6 whole monthes to find a job."
So what is the problem. Once you have a job you are usually doing alright. For the next job if you get laid off you will have more experience and contacts.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
RE: JUST CURIOUS
I have no problem being viewed as a commodity in the workplace. I am thankful that my wife does not hold a similar view.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
There are many job oppurtunities in BC for engineers.
Try www.apeg.bc.ca
(Assocition Of Professional Engineers & Geoscientists)
and check out there employment postings
Cheers and good luck
RE: JUST CURIOUS
"So what is the problem. Once you have a job you are usually doing alright."
I don't have a problem. I am very grateful that I have a job. I just wanted to give Nifez a more realistic opinion on how we new grads are faring when it comes to competing for employment opportunities. Check out the B.Eng forum at www.hireanewgrad.com . You'll see that there are many engineering graduates who are in the same boat. What I'm trying to say is, as a new grad, it's not impossible to find a job. However, you must be prepared to persuade your interviewers that you are equally qualified when they are looking for someone with years of experience. It's not easy when you're told you do not have enough experience; they are already insinuating that you won't be getting the job. Every where you go, it's generally the same story. Some companies do not even consider summer engineering work and engineering co-op as real work experience. You'd have to be in a new grad's position in today's society to truly comprehend what we are going through.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
I've met enough of these people to know that if they had an opportunity to work as engineers they'd jump at it, regardless where in Canada it was.
Why is it then that they're not being scooped up by these companies searching for workers to settle in northern Alberta and northern BC? Betcha it's because these firms won't even consider most of these immigrants for these positions. And why not? Because they don't need to- they get people like a colleague of mine if they wait a bit. He's a chemical engineer with at least 15 years of Canadian experience, who had a job in the mining/metallurgical business (you know, the one someone here posted as being on some kind of a major hiring binge...), and he had no success finding work suitable to his skills and experience in Ontario about a year ago. He's working in northern Alberta now.
You can see why the recent wave of immigrants is mad as hell here- they really feel excluded from the workforce. But this kind of "exclusion" didn't happen in the '60s and '70s during the last major wave of engineering immigration- those people were snapped up because there actually WAS an engineering shortage in Canada at the time. Firms HAD to consider immigrants or new grads if they wanted positions filled because that was their only choice. Training of recent grads and acclimatization/integration of recent immigrants was considered a cost of doing business.
One suggestion: if you're looking for engineers from Ontario, forget about Monster.ca- try the Ontario Society of Professional Engineers career centre at www.ospe.on.ca . There are about 4,000 engineers signed up with the career centre and only about 60 jobs rotating through at any one time.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
ht
It states:
"A premier job fair event for EXPERIENCED ENGINEERS ONLY"
"Prescreening to eliminate non-qualified and entry level candidates"
OUCH!!!
RE: JUST CURIOUS
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Makeup makes a perfect point for you Nifez. Makeup says that the job situation in the UK is dreadful and yet myself and 2 of my friends showed up in England and had jobs within a month. Come on over Nifez. Worst cause - you have a pint and go home.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
Letter 1
Is it time to quit engineering?
I worked for Menvier Electronics for 15 years as an Electronic Production Engineer. Cooper Industries of the USA took it over, shut it down, moved production to China.
Worked for TSS (UK) for exactly a year. Vosper Thorneycroft shut it down. Worked for Staveley NDT for one month. Sacked, no reason given. 5 months unemployed.
Worked for Comtrol Europe for 18 months. At my appraisal 2 weeks ago told I was “superb” and the company was very lucky to have me. Yesterday the American owner came over, made most of the workforce redundant on the spot. It will now be a sales office only.
I am sick and tired of this continual process. All I want is to do a good job and earn a salary to support my family. Although I love engineering I am now seriously wondering about moving to other areas of employment. But with no experience other than engineering I would be lucky to get the £25,000 I got at Comtrol.
Has anyone reading this successfully moved to a different career?
Letter 2:John;
Yes, I did move out of engineering many years ago, mainly because of a lack of work at the time. I was lucky enough to obtain a position with a retail company who put me into its trainee manager program. A year later I was a store manager.
I worked at this for about two years, basically running my own store, ordering goods, staff and stock control, cash flow and wages, etc, etc. I learned a lot about business operations in general and working with people, that was very helpful later on.
I left that job because I was enticed back to engineering by the promise of a high salary and good work conditions, etc. Of course, these never materialised, then or since. However, based on my retail experience, I was (for a time)offered positions with other companies, but I always turned them down (don't really know why) and I always feel that I made a huge mistake by going back to engineering after I had made the break, and created what was a new life for myself.
Initially, making the change was financially draining, as a trainee salary was not high. Once I had my own store, the salary and benefits (tangible and intangible) where more than a match for any engineering position available at the time. I would say that if you are at that point where you must make a decision, I would say make the change. It may be difficult, both financially and personally, but if things are as bad as they seem to be (for you) then make the change.
Whichever way you decide to go, the best of luck.
You see QCE, its not just me that says the opposite.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
PS. i wouldnt mind changing careers if the quality of life was worth it, but i had to work incredibly hard to get my degree, seems like a waste not to at least try and use it.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
I landed my first engineering position in my last semester as a senior in college. The oil field company that had the positions narrowed the field to five candidates. They flew the group of five 450 miles for a weekend interview. They only had two openings; however, they liked four of the candidates so they hired four of us. The position had generous compensation, with excellent benefits. The job was a poor fit for me, so I quit after a year and can still go back to work for them to this day.
Next, the first thing I did was to find an owner of an Engineering firm that would talk to me and I asked him what skills would make me the most desirable for entry level engineering positions. I listened and then acted. I started a self study program for myself while I looked for work. During my job interviews over the next few months I told my interviewers about how I started a self study program because of my interest in the field of engineering. I always asked every potential employer what skills they were looking for and how could I improve myself. I found my second engineering job and needed a different skill set than my study program that I put together so I changed my study program to make myself a greater value to my new employer. Three months later, I got a call from the owner of the engineering firm that gave me the good advice. I turned down the job (I already had a job). I received two more calls during my first three years of engineering from those original interviews. Why?
Was it the advice of from the owner of the engineering firm that I spoke with? No. To this day, I do not know for certain why the owner was so generous with his time, but I have a good idea. I believe he saw the following:
I had desire.
I had passion.
I had confidence.
I was willing to work.
I was not afraid of failure.
I wanted to be profitable for my employer.
I never looked for a job, I looked for an opportunity.
I educated myself on the history of every engineering firm before I walked through their door.
Sorry for being so long winded; however, I have found just the opposite of those who complain about the engineering field with sour grapes. Also, I still have a self study program that I follow even though my State does not require continuing education for PEs. It just makes me a better engineer when I have study projects.
nifez, I believe that if you have some of the traits listed above, you can find opportunity anywhere.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
Canada creates jobs for engineers every year, and if nifez emulates your list of desirable attributes, he may snag one of them. It's just that Canada "chose" (by default) to graduate and immigrate roughly 100,000 more engineers in the past 12 years than the jobforce could reasonably absorb as engineers. To put that in perspective, there are only 66,000 licensed professional engineers in all of Ontario, Canada's most populous province- and roughly half of all Canadian engineering grads go on to licensure. So he'll have some stiff competition from other skilled, motivated people- people who are here already and have been for some time, with wives and kids to feed. It's unfair to insinuate that the reason these people are out of work is that they're not motivated, not skilled or not doing their homework. It's a fact that they're here, and it's also a fact that they're having an extraordinarily hard time finding work. And they're not being excluded from the workforce by a bunch of racist, protectionist employers either. They're being out-competed by the local workforce in an oversupplied marketplace. If nifez wants to join them, that's his choice.
Again, nifez, feel free to come on over. Canada's a great place to live, and as I said before you do have some things going for you- and it's no picnic in your home country either, so maybe you'll even be better off. If you actually have CRG's list of attributes, and are willing to move anywhere for work, your odds will be far better than the poor souls who chose to settle in Toronto.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
What about an immigrant visum. Is it not so that one cannot just come and look for work? I applied for an immigrant visa, got through the points system and waited for about 1 year to get all the papers done. Once I came here as a permanent resident all systems were go and I could look for and accept a job.
Canadian employers will ask for either a lot of foreign experience or some Canadian experience. Just coming here one summer will make that one cannot accept a job if the Visa issue is not resolved.
I have looked for employment three times in the Montreal area and found a job one time after 3 weeks and the two other times within 2 weeks.
By the way, my wife has just accepted a job in the Yukon, whitehorse. Winter there is OK she had one week of -30°C and just passed another week of -45°C. One thing is true as a secretary she can make between 7.5 and 15 an hour here and there she is making well over $20 an hour.
And yes, Canada is a great place to live, working relations that are top notch and the fact that one is respected count for a lot. I worked in the US too and believe me the yanks are quite a bit rougher than the Canadians are.
Oh and I can guarantee that if you have lived in France and the US and you get here in Canada people are so polite it scares you. And worse, the politeness is addictive.
Best regards,
Scalleke
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RE: JUST CURIOUS
I have had some friends in grad school that immigrated here (Montreal Can.) that had to get a local degree in order to get a job. Be careful so that this doesn't happen to you. Be sure that your degree is recognised before you get here.
Just my advice. That being sait, good luck !
R
RE: JUST CURIOUS
This will work for you.
I did a similar thing for my trip to the UK.(check out program B)
This is regarding people from IRELAND coming to Canada:
PROGRAM A Student General Working Holiday
Requirements
must be a citizen of Ireland
You must be a full-time student in Ireland or completed your studies within the previous 12 months
Aged 18-30 (inclusive)
First come first served basis
Applications take 4-6 weeks to process
No fee payable
Visa valid for 12 months
Have a written job offer from a Canadian employer
Full details at: www.canada.org.uk/visa-info/visit/e_stuwrk.htm
PROGRAM B USIT
Requirements are similar to Program A EXCEPT you don’t need a written job offer from a Canadian employer.
You must apply through USIT:
USIT
19-21 Aston Quay
O’Connell Bridge
Dublin 2
Republic of Ireland
www.usit.ie
Other Requirements
one time only
residents of Northern Ireland are not eligible
applications take up to 8 weeks to process
cost is $254.68
RE: JUST CURIOUS
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frenchcanuck: My degree is accredited by IEEE, so hopefully that should be enough.
moltenmetal: i know its gonna be tough, but thats life. I promise i wont complain if i have no luck. Will keep a diary of my experience, so you can see how i got on.
Thanks for all the help guys, think ive got enough to get through the points system, plus my partner has a good masters degree, also i have alot of family already there so i think ive got a good chance.
RE: JUST CURIOUS
"Credential recognition" is a bit of a misnomer- the only person who really has to recognize your degree is your employer. If your Bachelor's degree is from a UK institution you are probably OK from a credential recognition standpoint for licensure too- but you will still need four years of mentored experience to get a license, at least one year of which must be in Canada. Some people find that to be a virtually insurmountable barrier given the current oversupply situation. But from the uninformed viewpoint of most employers, your degree will seem more familiar than that of someone from an institute in China or India etc. and that may mean you'll have a better chance of finding a job without a Canadian degree or prior Canadian experience than someone with credentials from these places, regardless of their absolute quality.
Remember that in Canada a license to practice professional engineering is neither necessary to find work as an employee engineer, nor is it a guarantee of work once you have one. Some recent immigrants seem to think it's the latter, and that it's the lack of a license alone which is keeping them from finding employment- and it's a total misconception.
If you intend to seek licensure, you are strongly recommended to begin the process in the province you intend to settle in BEFORE you leave your home country. It'll be easier to arrange getting the transcripts sent in etc. from home than it will from Canada.
Keep us up to date with your status!