Welding Engineering
Welding Engineering
(OP)
How many people in this forum have a degree in Welding Engineering, Metallurgy or Material Science, the IWE or EWE Diploma or have passed the PE exam or equivalent in Welding Engineering? Or is your knowledge in toto "Deweyan," that is "Learn from Doing," without any documented assessment
The reason that I am asking is that recently I reviewed a few WPS that were developed by a Professional Engineer (civil engineer) that only had a rudimental understanding of metallurgy and welding. Granted most welding codes in the USA do not require that the engineer have any special know of welding or metallurgy. It is ashamed that it will most likely take a catastrophic incident or two to change this.
The reason that I am asking is that recently I reviewed a few WPS that were developed by a Professional Engineer (civil engineer) that only had a rudimental understanding of metallurgy and welding. Granted most welding codes in the USA do not require that the engineer have any special know of welding or metallurgy. It is ashamed that it will most likely take a catastrophic incident or two to change this.





RE: Welding Engineering
Like just about everyone else I know in charge of reviewing WPSs from the facility owner's side, I have no such degree. I've never been too happy about that. It's not too bad with AWS D1.5 qualification, because at least they have a test to back it up and I can just make sure they're operating within the variables they established, but when it comes down to prequalified procedures, I'm out of my league and have nothing to go on but the consumable manufacturer's limitations on current. (And WPSs already in the file which don't seem to have been causing any problems over the last 10 years.)
Given that there are only a couple of schools in the US that offer welding engineering degrees, and that materials science departments don't concentrate a whole lot on metallurgy, one would be hard-pressed to find a lot of people who do have the qualifications you suggest.
The WPSs I review, by the way, come from various plants and aren't developed by engineers at all, welding or otherwise. They're developed by people in the plants' quality control department who may or may not have any welding background other than CWI qualification.
Though I think someone with lots of shop floor experience would be much better at developing WPSs than some design engineer.
We have found problems in the shop that were WPS-based, and the WPSs had qualification tests to back them up. I don't know if a better background (for me or the plant's welding department) would have allowed anyone to predict these problems or not. Good thing we have pretty rigorous inspection.
Hg
RE: Welding Engineering
At our company, I am involved with the administration of the Welding/Quality Program that is required to maintain our Certificate of Authorization to repair boiler and pressure vessels grated by the National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors.
About 99% of my work involves ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, Section I and VIII, Div 1 repairs/alterations that kick you back into ASME Section IX for welding. We do have several balance of plant welding procedures that have been qualified under AWS D1.1.
What I have found is that working with Section IX is not that difficult, and does not require an engineering degree. Section IX is like a cookbook in terms of following the requirements to properly qualify a welding procedure specification and to certify welders.
Where I see most problems is personnel that do not know how to select an appropriate filler metal/base metal for a particular application This is where the welding engineer or metallurgical engineering experience is a must. Section IX provides no guidance in which materials to qualify, and appropriate combinations of materials. It is strictly an administrative guideline to assure proper documentation for welding is maintained.
I have had front line personnel attend outside classes on welding to gain experience in knowing how to assure essential variables in welding procedures are followed, and to "ask" the right questions.
RE: Welding Engineering
I have often wanted to work with a welding engineer just to pick their brain.
There is a big difference between code compliance and designing welds and selecting processes for the application. Legal requirements aside, all of these tasks can be done without a college education in certain situation . None of these can be performed without the knowledge to do them.
I would think one of the keys to making engineering decisions is knowing what you know and knowing what you don't know.
Gerald Austin
Iuka, Mississippi
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com
RE: Welding Engineering
Even with providing periodic educational welding seminars, it is difficult to change the mindset of an essentially itinerant work force that has been supplied plenty of misinformation over the years.
RE: Welding Engineering
Do you think that some certification by AWS, CWB, TWI, IIW, et cetera, is required?
RE: Welding Engineering
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Hg
RE: Welding Engineering
The three Welding Engineering graduates, all from Ohio State, were licensed in accordance with the State's rules and regulations without examination based on experience and previous guidance from other licenced P.E.s. The Metallurgist was licenced in accordance with the State rules and regulations with examination.
I personally don't believe that one should be required to be certified by AWS, etc. I do believe that if one were to perform private practice in the capacity of a Welding Specialist (Engineer), it would be beneficial to that individual to have other certification as a selling tool, especially when his practice extends beyond his home State lines.
RE: Welding Engineering
RE: Welding Engineering
As I see, the welding issues are taken very differently in the US compared to Europe. According to the new rules, no company will be certified for any welding-type activity, begining with 2005, if they don't have personell that have EWE or IWE Diploma. You can call it globalisation or anything, but it is a natural outcome after creating Euronorm.
The courses are the same in any European country, held by the Welding Institutes of that country, and also the exams are the same. Thus, Welding Engineers from different countries will talk the same language in Europe and also will use the same standards and create the same WPS-es. I am Welding Engineer and right now I am attending an IWE course. There are many things you forget if you don't have to use it in your specific field, also you update your knoledge more efficiently then only reading articles from any welding magazine. I think it is a way that may lead to less problems in welding-related issues. Bye.
RE: Welding Engineering
In the USA, the individual States licence Engineers to practice as Professional Engineers. At this moment, no State regulations that I am aware require sign off of documents by a Welding Engineer and only the State of Ohio has exams in Welding Engineering. Two States, Oklahoma & Alaska, originally required AWS Certified Welding Inspectors to inspect weldments.
In the USA, civil litigation for engineering errors which lead to loss of life or property are directed at those with "deep pockets" - not the individual engineer or engineers who made the error or were highly negligent in their duties. In instances where loss of life has ocurred and for which States require signature of a PE, the PE providing his signature has been found criminally responsible only in a few instances - most of them in California and most involving Civil Engineers.
RE: Welding Engineering
What exactly do you mean when you state "no company will be certified for any welding-type activity, begining with 2005, if they don't have personell that have EWE or IWE Diploma". What certification is implied?
Does this effect ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code stamp holders in Europe that design and fabricate boilers and pressure vessels?
RE: Welding Engineering
RE: Welding Engineering
If your company is ISO or TÜV certified, when they come for the next audit, they will ask for the qualified personell, which also should be documented (and they do not recognize other then EWE or IWE Diploma). You don't show them the man with the Diploma, you're certificate is simply withdrawn. If you have this personell, then they proceed to the real audit.
If you are ASME certified, and your client is happy with your certificate, and with the product you manufacture, then you won't have ISO audit. But, if a client requires ISO or TÜV certificate for your product, then you will want to obtain ISO or TUV certificate, and then you need that personell.
Rich2001;
What do you mean by "the USA is behind the eight-ball."?
RE: Welding Engineering
Similar in the late 80's, ISO 9000 was looked on something that would not be needed and few companies bothered even to look at the standard, but by 1992 things changed. There was a rush of companies trying to obtain certifications.
Quite a conundrum, n’est-ce pas?
RE: Welding Engineering
The US is as big as the whole Europe. After having a unified standard system for Europe, as the US already has its own, I'll want to see how easyly would change Europe its own standard system into something else.
RE: Welding Engineering
There are a gaggle of reasons why no schools have expressed any interest, but chief among them is that the schools fail to see any value in the IWE diploma, and that American industry does not specify the IWE diploma as an essential personnel qualification.
Right now, the rules are still a bit fuzzy with regards to where a USA citizen may go to obtain an IWE diploma. There are courses offered in English in Germany and Canada (they are about 450 hours, maybe three months in duration) but no one has quite figured out if the host country can even issue a diploma to a non-resident.
RE: Welding Engineering
I've looked into the AWS program for certifying welding engineers, and any comments anyone has on that program would be of interest to me.
thanks,
John