Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
(OP)
What do you think of the following situation?
1) I accepted a job a few weeks ago at a very prestigious place but it will involve a move and the money isn't as great especially and the cost of living is high.
2) Another job may become available to me. This group asked me if I would be willing to consider them instead of the offer I previously received. I know what this group is like and there are some negatives in the environment that led to the job being available, but it is also conveniently in my hometown where I live currently.
My initial thought is that I've given my word and accepted an offer at the other place. I am not inclined to back out because I believe someones word is important
HOWEVER
1) Financially I would be better off if I backed out of it
2) But if I did back out, it could give me a bad name in the community of this specialty which is pretty small.
WHAT I AM INCLINED TO DO
1) Take the job offer I accepted. Work there for a little while to get the name and experience
2) Sometime 1 or two years down the road, return to the other company for an offer. I have a feeling they will have openings again!
1) I accepted a job a few weeks ago at a very prestigious place but it will involve a move and the money isn't as great especially and the cost of living is high.
2) Another job may become available to me. This group asked me if I would be willing to consider them instead of the offer I previously received. I know what this group is like and there are some negatives in the environment that led to the job being available, but it is also conveniently in my hometown where I live currently.
My initial thought is that I've given my word and accepted an offer at the other place. I am not inclined to back out because I believe someones word is important
HOWEVER
1) Financially I would be better off if I backed out of it
2) But if I did back out, it could give me a bad name in the community of this specialty which is pretty small.
WHAT I AM INCLINED TO DO
1) Take the job offer I accepted. Work there for a little while to get the name and experience
2) Sometime 1 or two years down the road, return to the other company for an offer. I have a feeling they will have openings again!





RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I was going nuts in NYC and I found a life in the midwest. Now I am approaching retirement, live in a nice area of the country, and the weather and disaster factors are minimal. The financial and cost of living factors are good, too.
Several years ago Warner published a book entitled, "Finding the Best Place to Live in America," Thomas Bowman, et al. It has appeal for engineers because it is analytical and covers dozens of factors. You can chose to weigh various factors more heavily than others. Then you score several locations including your present locale. It's an eye opener. Try Amazon.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I took the latter. How I dealt with it was to explain to the person that was hirihg me (not the comapny) in writing how I felt personally/professionally. I usually never get personal when it comes to business, but this is a personal issue. Although there were hard business feelings, things were positive on a personal/professional level.
I do not regret my decision. I can't say for sure how I would be right now accepting the first offer, but I am happy with my choices. If I have left my career up to my employeers, I am sure I would be piegon holed doing shop drawing reviews with my 10 year old HP48GX calculator by my side....LOL
Go with your feelings and communicate them clearly to all parties affected....
BobPE
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Fortunately, the company you might spurn is far away. Where I live is small enough that word gets around. I would not do it to a local firm.
Also, you are far from the first to back out of a job offer. They'll get over it.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
from CA. When he moved to here and reported to work,
he was laid off.
Loyalty should be a two way street...
<nbucska@pcperipherals DOT com> subj: eng-tips
read FAQ240-1032
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I once made an offer to an individual. The accepted and agreed to come to work in two weeks. I contacted them occasionally and discussed further details of the job and offered to have them come in on a Saturday to get settled and briefed further.
On the very day they were to start work, they showed up, asked to speak privately to me, and then stated that they had taken another job elsewhere and wouldn't be "accepting" my offer.
I was disappointed of course, and somewhat angry....NOT that they had first said yes and then said no...but that they waited until the very day to begin work to tell me.
I would have understood if they had received the other offer, called me immediately, and then backed out...that would have then given me the opportunity to counter offer and/or to begin looking for another person to fill the position....as it happened, my rejection letters to others that I had interviewed had to be called back or recanted - very awkward.
If you decide, do it quickly and let them know in a timely manner.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Several years ago, my friend was in the personnel dept. of a utility company. They interviewed a person who was described as a "hippie" and qualified. He inquired about vacation, sick leave and personal leave, among other things, and was hired.
On the day he was to begin work, he did not show up. The next day when he did come in, he said he took a personal leave day.
The only problem was that he didn't tell anyone first, and it was to be his first day of work.
jimbo
Buy a dictionary, keep it nearby and USE it. Webster's New World Dictionary of American English is recommended, and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Your word is a verbal contract. It is just as binding as a written contract, but is obviously more difficult to enforce as the evidence supporting it is weak and maybe unreliable (who remembers EXACTLY what they said.
To knowingly break a contract is unethical. Examples of unethical behaviour on the part of the other side may be a practical reason for breaking the contract, but it still does not make your actions ethical in the strict sense of the word.
If you did that in the business circles I mix in, you would do your reputation such serious damage that it would be difficult to function in your job.
Regards
pat pprimmer@acay.com.au
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
All offer letters I have had clearly state that employment can be terminated at will/without notice by either party. There are no contracts associated with an offer letter, generally.
I think JAE makes a valid point, to tell them ASAP. I would not feel bad about changing your mind. It is better to do it before you start. Of course, smaller communities have less opportunities so you may limit future, local opportunities within your area. I have been in this situation as well and had to turn down an offer. I never intend not to take a job when I apply for it but when your looking for a change you often find multiple jobs your interested in. It just happens that way. Don't feel bad about it.
Chances are the company would not even think twice about sacking you on the first day, if they felt the need. This does not mean you should do it but don't ever think they would have the same concerns if the tables were turned. I feel sorry for anyone naive enough to think they would.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
You may not want to apply at that remote location for a few years. However, sometime the more distant future you could be able to go there too.
John
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
If you promise to start, you should start. If the agreement says either party can back out, you can back out, if the agreement is 1 weeks notice, 1 months notice or a 5 year contract, you should give that notice and complete that contract, unless it is dissolved by mutual consent, or broken by the other party.
I agree, if you are going to back out, the earlier you advise, the better.
If you say you are having second thoughts for "X" reasons, but will meet the contract if required, the other party might release you. All involved will at least know you are a man of your word.
Regards
pat pprimmer@acay.com.au
eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I am very surprised at his response mostly b/c he has to be wondering how this second company knows he had an offer from us. Why would he tell them he was still in the job search process if he knew there was a good chance they had been in contact with someone from here? Wouldn't you suspect that whatever you told them could get back to your current employer?
This other company no longer wants him b/c they feel he's being shady and they don't want to be the next employer he strings along. It's strange b/c his employment history had actually been very stable and he has very good reasons for moving. Nothing out of the ordinary or questionable until this.
Anyway, I have not told my department head that I know the new person is actively looking for another job. Personally, I can't blame the guy for keeping his options open and hoping he finds a job he might like better. However, I do feel that he just accepted our offer b/c it was easier to have something when he moved, but planned to continue his job search once he was here. The fact that he contacted this other company after he accepted our offer, but before his first day here gives me the impression he was never satisfied with this position and never intended to stay.
I know that if I tell the department head, this guy is getting fired. It wil be about 2 weeks before he is full time charging to projects and before then, all of his time is being charged to overhead at a very high salary. Training, HR paperwork, orientation, and everything else with the likelihood that we will never recover it b/c he will leave soon. Plus, we have been passing over other qualified applicants since the day he accepted. But I don't really want to be responsible for him losing his job. That second company might be the only place he was in touch with for all I know. If I knew that someone who had been working here for a while was looking for a new job, I wouldn't consider telling management at all. It's up to that person to decide what's best for them and if that means leaving this company, then that's ok. They may decide not to leave. I have been the sounding board for several people considering job changes during my career and have switched jobs once myself. I just see this differently b/c his time here is a waste of our time and resources and I don't think he ever intended to stay. This is just a paycheck to him until he finds what he wants.
I'd like to just stay out of this altogether, but it fell into my lap. If he leaves in the next few weeks and this story comes out, I'd be in trouble for not saying anything earlier. Any advice - anyone??
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
On the other hand, you can simply try to get it out of him and see what he is going to tell you. If you find out that his story is indeed shady, well you better tell management and fast! This guy seems to be a backstabber, and you don't want to be his next victim.
Coka
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
"He responded (from here at his work computer, but through a home email acct)" How do you know this?? or this?
"This other company no longer wants him b/c they feel he's being shady and they don't want to be the next employer he strings along."
It doesn't sound like this "fell into your lap". It's all hearsay, can you acctually verify any of it?
If you see the guy take a computer or something and put it in his car -tell you boss, Otherwise you don't know for sure what the guy is doing or thinking.
Using hearsay and rumors to judge someone is pretty petty, would you want someone to do it to you? Is the guy doing the job he was hired to do? If so,end of story.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
We don't have walls in our office - it's all open. I sit about 15' from the new person and I can see that he's had Yahoo email open several times if I even glance in his direction. Trust me that I'm not snooping around and I'd really rather not even know that this was going on. I am inclined to not say anything to anyone just to stay out of it. But I do feel an obligation to tell my dept. head. If I were in his position, I would certainly want to know and be upset that someone knew it and didn't tell me.
I would hope that the dept. head would ask the new person directly to explain what his intentions are, and then decide what to do. However, I am pretty certain they would fire him, so it's not like I'd just be informing them of the situation and stepping out of it, telling myself that it's up to them and it's not my decision. I think I alreday know the consequences.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
TTFN
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Your still using terms like "pretty certain", " Their thinking, " ( you don't know what their thinking), " If he had told them the truth" ( do you have any proof that he didn't?". ).
"I can see that he's had Yahoo email open..." Did you read the messages? do you have copie? Could he be writing vendors? this forum maby? all professionally related activities.
If the guy gets fired and decides to bring suit against you or name you in the suit, you don't have a fact to justify anything you have said. A good lawyer will make you look like a gosspy teenager at a pajama party.
The term "professional" applies to more than the technical part of your work.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I'm not interested in why he's on Yahoo email at work. I really don't care if he's emailing friends or old colleagues or sending chain mail jokes or whatever. The other company got his response by email yesterday during work hours. It's an obvious assumption. I'm not talking about a court of law where you'd need a hard copy of someone's actual email. Besides, I already said my husband's company told me everything that was going on. His response to them was not honest and they based their decision on that. What proof do you need that someone started a job and told you otherwise?? It's not even arguable.
True, I don't know 100% what management would do if they knew all the facts. From working here and knowing the people involved, I'm inclined to think they'd be less torn than I am, considering all of the time and money we invest in a person in their first few weeks for training and orientation and all of the other applicants we're passing up. Why should they spend the next few weeks worrying over someone who may or may not stay and then they'd be suspicious of every "sick day". Do you take the time to review resumes still coming in for this position, tell a great candidate that the position is already filled even though you know it might not be the next day?
This person is the victim of an unfortunate coincidence, certainly. I don't know what I would do myself if something better came along after having accepted another job. But I'm not on that end this time. I'm on the end of acting in the company's best interests. I don't know if I would agree with it if they chose to fire him, but I can definitely see their point if they did.
I really don't understand, BJC, where you're coming up with this as gossip and rumor. The only assumptions are what this guy is thinking and I can't even begin to guess that.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
The way I see it from what you provided you have two issues. Do you stand for the company to protect its best interests.....I would say if you are a partner in the firm, you would wo what you need to protect the firm.
If you are just an employee that is not impacted, well, then it comes down to your personal character and how this could affect how people view you....You could stand to lose a lot of trust amongst peers letting the cat out of the bag.
BobPE
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Many would let the inquiring company know that they have alreade started another job. Perhaps iff a new employee is not happy with the change it is good to move on earlier instead of later.
In any event, it is none of your business. Go back to work.
Companies are often full of rumor mills. When jobs are winding down the rumors are often about new projects or big layoffs. In these cases, if you are close to the manager, it is always fun to shoot an email to the boss advising of a recent rumor. This permits the department to advise the facts. Often a rumored "new project" is actually just a proposal. It seems acceptable to keep your manager aware of the company rumor mill issues.
Another person's career options are not your business. Most of us are regarded as "at-will" employees. When you get an offer letter the rate is stated monthly. This basically commits the company to hire for a month. After a month, all bets are off. Employees are always able to shop around. It is better done from home or cell phone than the phone in a cubicle where others may want to involve themselves.
John
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
1) I am being questioned about my interest in backing out of the first job which is in town A to take another job here locally. The finances would likely be highly favorable for me staying in my hometown, which I'll call town B. By the way town A has a cost of living that is at least 30% higher than my town, town B.
The job in town A is at a much more prestigious place. The department there also appears to be a better place to work (better morale, better resources, higher tech, etc)
2) I have a serious romantic interest in a woman who lives in town C. In town C, they have the company that is the very best in this field. In my search for jobs I sent them my resume and even had an informational interview. At this point town C and company C aren't hiring. However after a few years I may want to live in town C and work at company C. The cost of living is the cheapest there. Not sure what the salary would be. The woman in town C would move with me anywhere but would like to live in town C which has the #1 company, great houses to buy and her job at said company.
So the question is
Knowing that I eventually would want to go to town C. Should I stay for 1-2 years at town A/job A to boost my chances of going to town C one day, or just stay in town B/job B and bide my time until I can get into job C?
I will post another thread about resume building. My question for that thread will be, how important is the company that you worked for previously in the hiring process when you look for a new job?
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Hg
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I would take the A job and wait for the C job to materialize. I will tell you from being a recent hire several times in the past 4 years that multiple jobs at a senior level on your resume is not frowned upon in the market right now. You need justification for every move, but the justification of self improvement is widely accepted.
There is no reason in todays engineering market that an engineer need tolerate an underperforming job.
Let us kow how you make out....
BobPE
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Any suggestions as to how to handle this is welcome.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I used the interview to explain my employment history. At the interview you can discuss the strategy of your decisions with another businessperson that would most likely understand what you did and why.
I wouldn't tackle an explanation in the cover letter. The cover letter is to explain in more detail your objective for applying, goals you are looking to satisfy, and how you will not only succeed yourself, but make others succeed, etc.
Let us know how you make out...
BobPE
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
1) Do you think it strange or in poor taste that I wish to take job in town A because it is prestigious and then plan on leaving at the most appropriate but shortest possible duration that I can obtain a resume boost from it? More or less I plan on working harder than ever and also learning as much in this new career but then when I'm confident and ready to go to another place I plan to leave. Not just for greener pastures but for personal reasons as well. So would staying only 1-2 or 3 years at the most be unethical? The impression I got from the hiring manager was that this does happen often. He doesn't seem to mind and sees the arrangement as mutually beneficial.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
"We can afford to pay him a good salary for a time."
I've got inside info that the airlines are hiring co-pilots this way. They furlough the experienced higher salaried co-pilots with the alibi of the economy, 9-11, etc, and hire new co-pilots at reduced salaries. What a way to run an airline!
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
TTFN
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
You originally posted this in mid-December, and (presumably) a related post at the end of November. It's now mid-Jan, and, presumably, time to make a decision. Personally, I would try to forget about town 'C', for now at least. They have no jobs. In 2-3 years time, maybe, maybe not. Even if they do have a job then, you might not get it. So, which job is best for you right now, taking everything into account - career prospects, personal life etc.?
There are several ways I've made [personal] decisions in the past, including writing plus/minus lists etc. One thing I've done has been to flick a coin, and go with whatever it said. When I was disappointed with the outcome, I then knew what the right decision was. If they're so close you can't choose, then they're both the right decision, and the only wrong decision is not to make one.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Best Regards,
Heckler
"Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups" John Kenneth Galbraith
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Now they are closer to offering me at my hometown.
I am two months and one half months away from a start date at the prestigious place.
The cost of living in the other town is 50% higher and the offer they made may be as much as 20% lower than my hometown.
I will keep you updated.
I still think it will be incredibly hard to back out of my word on company A, which is an incredibly prestigious place.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I don't officially have an offer at my hometown, the process has taken a long time. I expect to have one by the end of next week.
I am supposed to start in the new town in 2 months. After I write out the most extensive list of pros and cons that I can, i will make a decision. This has become alot harder than I anticipated it ever would.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
This has been a very difficult process for me. Backing out on a job is not my top way of doing things.
Well whatever I choose will be the right choice. Thats the only way I can look at it.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Backing out of the other offer may not be that great an issue for the other firm. They likely have alternate candidates and from my experience, unless you have actually worked for them in the past, they have short term memory of whom they have looked at. They may hold your resume on file for a few months and then it will be gone. Whatever your decision, don't loose sleep over the job not taken.
Regards
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I heard about this some time later during another interview. I asked how he knew about this, but I got no answer. Ther may have been a network of HR info in play at the time.
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
John
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Nowadays, if I hadn't signed an actual contract, ...
... I'd still do the same thing, but I doubt that anyone else would.
Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
As an employer I can lay off a contract engineer with zero notice and no reason. I cannot do the same with a direct employee. Direct is better in regard to these aspects.
Besides it is all about the money and your future career. Contract is not a career.
John
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Apparently you do not work in a state or country where employment is "at will". In my state, the employer can let you go at any time or the employee may decide to leave at any time. Notice is not required. maddru, I would check the contract terms in regards to leaving or early termination before making a decision on the second position. Hopefully there is a procedure that you can follow.
Regards
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
Mike Halloran
NOT speaking for
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust Inc.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
RE: Accepting a job and then backing out of it before starting?
I would only take the retention package if I was gauranteed a job from company 3 in July.