Where have the drafting classes gone?
Where have the drafting classes gone?
(OP)
Another thread got me thinking about this.
Where have all the drafting classes gone to?
They are plenty of classes out there where you can learn how to use AutoCAD, but I have noticed that it's almost impossible to find a drafting class short of community college.
I would figure there would be a huge need for this.
Drafting principals seem to be a dying art. Especially simple orthographic drawings.
Where have all the drafting classes gone to?
They are plenty of classes out there where you can learn how to use AutoCAD, but I have noticed that it's almost impossible to find a drafting class short of community college.
I would figure there would be a huge need for this.
Drafting principals seem to be a dying art. Especially simple orthographic drawings.





RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
You can always jazz up the AutoCAD drafting with touches of manual by selecting certain fonts, leaving certain construction lines etc... But this isn't a popular thing to do because it adds nothing to the quantity, and hard to justify extra time for aesthetics.
DRW75
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
Hand sketching is indispensible for design engineering. But no course can teach that, you just pick it up. I consider a hand drafted project to be only half done, It still has to redone in CADD to be of any applicable use. Clients want an electronic reproduction of what they've just paid you for, and who can blame them? What are they gonna do with a bunch of Mylars with ink lines? Most review agencies here make approval contingent on a written promise of CADD files, and who can blame them? How is a CM or RPR going to check elevations, areas, sizes, distances during the brutal schedule they have to hold? Are they going to scale and trianuglate and calculate sines and tangents all day? Not on my project's budget.
Good riddence hand drafting! Let's hold a Leroy board and pen burning ceremony...french curves make good fire fuel, plastic, high BTU value!
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
Some of my biggest pet peeves, especially when I get drawings from outside sources.
No use of Line Weights
Mutilple text sizes in a drawing.
Different type blocks in the same drawings
Fonts (Don't get me started on this one though)
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
1.) Hand drafting skills can give you a leg up on hand sketching (sketching was taught as part of my mechanical drawing class in school), and a lot of preliminary design work gets done away from the workstation (e.g. on napkins at the pub, on whiteboards in the boardroom).
2.) Who says an architectural plan view (or even detail views) has to be ugly. My wife has some artwork on the wall of our dining room at home - plan & elevation views of a pedestrian bridge, and some details of dock cranes in London. Granted, both were done ca. 1800's, by hand, and have watercolor wash to add colors...and okay, she's an engineer too. But I've seen some awfully nice mechanical design prints done by drafters, who were typically proud enough of their work to post on their cubicle walls.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
1.
Agreed, hand drafting enhances sketching skills. But I have never seen a situation where an engineer couldn't sketch what he or she was thinking, whether or not the engineer was a drafter. From that, I concluded sketching is something which appears to be learned to an adequate level without hand drafting. I maintain that is true.
2.
I didn't say architectural (or any other) plan (or any other) views had to be ugly. I said "...there is no added value in an attractive plan, versus an unattractive one." I maintain that is true.
I didn't say drafters are not typically proud of their work. I said "No one (except maybe the drafter) cares what it looks like..." I also maintain that is true.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
The number of student interns and new engineers that are coming out that don't understand prints and basic projections to a satisfactory level (don't even get me started on sections) is, IMO, increasing. I used to TA manual drafting classes and labs. I feel that there is something to be said for actually sitting down and drawing something by hand that you don't get in CAD (for beginners). I think it has something to do with the fact that less thought goes into putting a CAD line on a screen than on paper because it's so easy to erase and forget about. When doing it by hand, you get tired real quick with erasing and redrawing, thus more upfront thought. It's just a pet theory of mine. No hard data to back that up.
I also strongly disagree with the notion that prints don't have to look professional as long as they get the point across. Just like anything else I do, one of my prints is a reflection of how I feel about my work. Also, I don't know about you guys, but our managers routinely grab our prints to include in presentations, etc... for upper management and clients.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
On the other hand, they offered an "AutoCAD for Professionals" course, that was 32 class hours total. It taught you nothing about what to draw, it was just how to use AutoCAD, and assumed you knew what you wanted to draw.
Bad drafting you see is not just a problem with the drafting education. Part of the problem is low expectations on employer's parts. They want to hire people to draft for $8 an hour, then expect professional results.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
What is it they say? "You can take the boy out of drafting but you can't take drafting out of the boy"
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
In many ways, it's like the transition from slide rule to calculator. The slide rule required us to have a good idea of the order of magnitude of the result; with calculators it's too easy to accept a wildly incorrect answer.
I wouldn't trade my CAD software for anything, but I also wouldn't trade away the things I learned doing Rapidograph on vellum.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
reading this thread reminds me of when I started in ACAD. I was a cabinetmaker, and wanted to change career when I reached a certain age. To enter the drafting field I took some ACAD courses in continuing education, naively thinking that tech knowledge alone would enable me to get started in my new career.
I have a cousin whose been in product design for many years, and when I told him of my plans, he suggested I take a drafting course, which at the time, I didn't really understand the signifigance of.
Anyway, I learned ACAD, but when I went to work I didn't know the first thing about general architectural/engineering drawing standards, and I had a rough few years picking up that knowledge on the job.
After I was in the field a few years, I got some old out-of-date high school text books on drafting, and I had a new appreciation for the time-tested conventions for clear presentaion.
While there's nothing like a hand drawing in terms of beauty, I didn't interpret the original post as about hand vs. computer drafting, but rather about teaching general drafting standards in schools. As someone stated earlier, it's all about communication. Of the various co-workers I've had, I remember one guy whose drawing style was sort of a dialog with the viewer, calling out the important points to the client, architect, etc. That was a learning experience for me.
sundemon
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
The ability to operate a program does not mean you should. The old school drafting ideals could easily be taught in AutoCAD courses, and in some places are, but the trend these days is to train operators, operators don't need to know why they draw, just draw.
And the asthetics of a drawing do change the 'work-ability' that is why those standards were set in place to begin with, it is not simply because then the drawing is pretty, but because it is easier to read. Also, it doesn't take any longer to do it right or more attractive, if you do it right the first time.
Thanks
SC
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
I see it more and more... people that spend far too much time drawing the details on a part or assembly that you can't even see when they put it on a plotted page at a scale that barely uses a third of a page. I feel that the art of "drafting" is not tied to manual or CAD, it is the presentation of the information on a released document. Manually drafting made you think 10 steps ahead of how, where, and at what scale you were going to put the information. Today all you get is model information and some views "slapped" on some "paper".
The new guys have all told me that they were never taught how to "Draft", only how to use the software. I recommend to them to read through some old drafting textbooks to learn about drafting.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
classes in the 50s and then stated ACAD in 74.
I do agree that the drafting class was invaluable
in knowing how to section some difficult parts.
It was also very helpful to know how to dimension
so stack up of tolerance becomes minimum. Line
weights are important not only aesthetic reasons
but also for clarity. One advantage of ACAD is
that if you share the drawing, the customer can
print at a greater scale if necessary. I know
many have reservations about sharing the actual
drawings, but we all want to save time by importing
components into our assembly drawings. We in
engineering liked to draw to max material conditions
but the shop prefers the mean dimension for their
programming.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
Years ago, I worked with a woman who did beautiful hand drafting. Unfortunately, she never gained any sense at all about what the lines and notes on a plan meant. One day, a surveyor gave her a mark-up of a plan drafted a week or so before, and one of the notes was to make a certain solid line a dotted line: "Make this line dotted." with an arrow pointing to it. She dutifully made the changes as shown on the mark-up. The end result included a hand-drafted note on the plan, with an arrow pointing to the line, that read, "Make this line dotted." That surveyor and I have been chuckling over this one ever since.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
We need to see Cadd as a tool to better model the work, not as a time saving device.
If we had better CADD standards, and enforced these standards, we would have better drawings and less claims against our work.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
I would be really interested in knowing what all of you think would be the most useful skills for students who are going into engineering or want to work as draftsmen. My background is Civil/Survey so I have a handle on that but any input is welcom.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
Give them exposure to a wide variety of problems and their drawing solutions. In high school, there are a wide range of possible fields they may encounter in later life.
From personal experience, the most valuable drawing practise I learned was how to create projected views (show the true side view of a pipe intersection). I use the techniques weekly, sometimes daily.
Other problems I can recall being given in drawing class, that showed immediate practical application included: given strike, bearing, and dip of one shaft, and strike and bearing of second shaft, find the dip of second shaft if it is to intersect the first. Always did want to be a gold miner...
Have them create topographic maps from "surveyor's notes".
Draw and dimension a shaft with an O-ring groove, and make them pick the "right" ring size, and appropriate dimension callouts (diamter, width of groove) from the Parker O-ring Handbook. You should be able to contact Parker and have them send you several copies for teaching aids.
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
They have cut the classes back here so hard simply because know body wants to do it any more.
Diplomacy Has Failed Time For Some Action
RE: Where have the drafting classes gone?
There's no question that CAD is much faster than the old days of manual. However, it has been my experience that the basic art of drafting is almost lost in this day and age. I can tell a huge difference between drawings done on CAD by someone who never drew by hand compared with those who have. Like someone said earlier, it's all about communicating your ideas. I have had to explain such simple concepts as what "perpendicular" means to some drafters. Regardless of the methods you use (and standards) they don't amount to much if the aesthetics are not there. When you submit plans to someone who recognizes the visual quality, it all boils down to less comments and questions during the review process, ergo, communicating your ideas well, and leaving very little question as to what your intents are.
I sometimes still like to sit down and do some of my own work by hand. If nothing else, it is therapeutic for me. It truly has become a lost art form.