Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
(OP)
It is just a discussion that I have with a friend.
Can it be an internal combustion engine that, perhaps with some minor modifications like turning on or off swithces, burns gasoline or diesel?
I guess not. At least I don't know of any engine that is widely used.
But could it be possible to built such an engine? Or the way that each fuel burns (pressure and temperature for ignition) makes it immpossible?
Regards,
Costas
Can it be an internal combustion engine that, perhaps with some minor modifications like turning on or off swithces, burns gasoline or diesel?
I guess not. At least I don't know of any engine that is widely used.
But could it be possible to built such an engine? Or the way that each fuel burns (pressure and temperature for ignition) makes it immpossible?
Regards,
Costas





RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
A gas turbine could easily be made to burn either, and a gas turbine is an internal combustion engine.
If you want to restrict yourself to piston engines, then yes, you could design such an engine. It would not be a particularly good example of one or the other, and designing a device to vary the compression ratio (the least nasty alternative) would be the key to its success. Oh, I know, just restrict the gasoline mode to running at less than 60% throttle. That'll work.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
Well, since changing the compression ratio is (what I call) a major modification, you say that a gasoline-diesel piston engine can not be possible.
I have not understood exactly what you mean by "restricting the galoline mode at less than 60% throttle". Do you mean that a gasoline piston engine can burn diesel if the throttle does not open more than 60% of the total available area? For example a gasoline piston engine working in idle (where throttle is almost closed). Can it burn diesel?
Costas
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
By a gasoline engine I mean one that uses gasoline. By a diesel engine I mean one that uses diesel fuel.
You may be trying to differentiate between a spark ignition engine and a compression ignition engine.
That is a whole different ball game.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
...but I did not understand it.
Can a piston IC engine work by burning gasoline and diesel (only one type of fuel each time)? Without major modifications like changing compression ratio. A minor modification would be to switch on the electrical circuit for the spark plugs when burning gasoline, and to switch on the diesel pump when burning diesel.
As far as I know, the pressure and temperature for the ignition of each fuel is the reason that make such an engine impossible. But I could be wrong.
Has anyone seen such an engine?
Regards
Costas
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
Engines that powered many military trucks used multi-fueled engines. These engines where mil-spec, non-electronic, turbo charged, compression ignited,extremely robust and could burn gasoline, diesel, JP fuels, mixed fuels including fuels mixed with used engine lubricating oil and or a combination of fuels. One of the manufactures for these engines that comes to mind was the White engine Co.
Surplus trucks with these engines are readily available and inexpensive.
Redmane
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
I doubt this was very successful engine as I have never seen it in anything newer than a 1940's tractor.
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
Good Luck
johnwm
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RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
I believe dual fuel engines could be developed that would pass the emission standards of today. The issues are the same. The lower molecule size gas would create less particulate. But the question is - why would you want such an engine? Are you willing to pay more for such and engine? Diesel fuel and gas costs roughly the same per gal yet diesel has higher fuel value. It also is safer, less toxic and lower volatility.
Fuel processing requires a mix of fuel type use. The crude separates into so much gas and so much diesel.
-- So I guess it would be nice to be able to switch at will.
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
What they had was an addition to the combustion chamber to reduce compression and a spark plug in there to ignite the gasoline. The multifuel engines are just a normal diesel engine that has a high enough compression ratio to autoignite the gasoline. The gasoline is injected the same as the diesel fuel is.
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
Also, if I recall correctly, the German airforce had engines that would start on gasoline and switch to a "coal slurry" of some sort. I guess if they could make that work diesel would be a piece of cake.
Rod
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
(He also said that the Harrier jump jet can run on pretty much anything...)
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
I googled a little using keywords like "multifuel , multi fuel, bi fuel" etc and found some government liquidition about trucks that used multifuel engines.
I also found about Tractor Vaporizing Oil (TVO) which was the fuel for tractor some decades ago.
My thought was that there is not common conditions where gasoline-air mixture and diesel-air mixture can ignite in useful way inside an IC piston engine. I was wrong.
Thank you all for your contribution!
Regards
Costas Varsamidis
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
My Dad had a B model John Deer tractor from the 40's that had an Aux. fuel tank to allow you to run kero or diesel or corn ???
You would start and warm up on gas and then switch.
The B was a 2 cyl. about 7 by 9 bore and stroke for about 500 ci. max rpm was under 2000 if I remember correctly.
Brian
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
The engines were not particularly powerful, clean or reliable. But they would run on kerosene, diesel or petrol (and possibly vegetable oils), without any adjustment or modification. This was perceived as a logistic advantage in the 1960s/70s so that an advancing army could scavenge anything flammable and continue to press forward.
In the event, I don't believe that any Chieftain ran operationally on anything other than Diesel. It was difficult enough keeping them going on that.
Interestingly, all NATO countries specify the 'single fuel policy' for Army equipment. This means that all military vehicles should have diesel engines that run on diesel fuel or aviation kerosene. Petrol is firmly out of favour (except for outboards and motorcycles, but even these are becoming available with diesel engines).
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
Then spark knock won't be a problem.
Not only tractors, but during WWII, there were conversion kits around for automobiles.
Diesel fuel being readily available to farmers.
RE: Is there an ICE that can use either gasoline or diesel?
The engine origionally ran on gasoline but with the current enthusiasm for diesel powered aircraft engines they were trying to convert it.
The only way to get it started was using gasoline then changing over to diesel, so although it would run on either I guess it was by default rather than design.
Karl